The Bill Simmons Thread

[kenneycb]

No offense but he has a book and a following. I enjoy your work but the Masked Man is a mainstream name for the non-smarks. Who Simmons also previously hired. No idea if there were any backdoor politics or whatnot but I can't say I'm surprised to see him come on board. Seems very much in line with the other hires.

 

[Number45forever]

BS should not talk about golf. The first 20 minutes of the latest ShackHouse with BS on as well were slightly painful. Otherwise, loving ShackHouse. Very cool that House is actually at Augusta this week.

 

[Kliq]

No offense but he has a book and a following. I enjoy your work but the Masked Man is a mainstream name for the non-smarks. Who Simmons also previously hired. No idea if there were any backdoor politics or whatnot but I can't say I'm surprised to see him come on board. Seems very much in line with the other hires.

I was joking, Shoemaker is a significantly better writer than me.

 

[luckiestman]

Did Simmons really only talk Celtics Warriors for 2 minutes with Klosterman? Am I missing it somewhere else?

 

[NoXInNixon]

I was joking, Shoemaker is a significantly better writer than me.

For example, he would know that the proper grammar is "better writer than I"

 

[Kliq]

For example, he would know that the proper grammar is "better writer than I"

If you ever have read anything I have ever written you should know that I desperately need an editor.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

If you ever have read anything I have ever written you should know that I desperately need an editor.

You'd be perfect for a Simmons-led website then.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Klosterman grilling Simmons about "karma" in a recent podcast:


I'm not surprised Simmons has these sorts of thoughts and would vocalize them in a podcast, but I'm kinda surprised someone at The Ringer thought they were worth transcribing and putting on Facebook. My editorial comment would be as follows:

 

[Bunt4aTriple]

In his most recent podcast, Simmons loved his A. I. Cruz joke so much he told it both guests, complete with the word "assimulate". I like him more than most, but he would handle the "What magazines do you read?" no better than Palin.

 

[the1andonly3003]

Klosterman grilling Simmons about "karma" in a recent podcast:


I'm not surprised Simmons has these sorts of thoughts and would vocalize them in a podcast, but I'm kinda surprised someone at The Ringer thought they were worth transcribing and putting on Facebook. My editorial comment would be as follows:

apparently a Reddit user asked for transcripts

 

[redsox3g2]

BS should not talk about golf. The first 20 minutes of the latest ShackHouse with BS on as well were slightly painful. Otherwise, loving ShackHouse. Very cool that House is actually at Augusta this week.

Agree. I have enjoyed them and turned a golfing buddy onto them. Of course the first one he listened to was the Masters one with BS on it. He said he stopped listening 10 minutes in so I have to beg him to listen again when he's not on it.

 

[SidelineCameras]

They did a podcast a few weeks ago about the GoT trailer and they were basically salivating the entire time. I didn't hear any dismissiveness at all, and definitely not from Ryan. Greenwald is just dismissive in general, as part of his overall ethos and being "cool".

Yeah I don't see any dismissiveness at all from them. They call when it airs their "regular season." No they haven't read the books but I don't get the sense that they are making fun of the readers and they seem to be in awe of Mallory and Concepcion's knowledge.

I listened to the latest "The Watch" today and I figured out my issue with them - they're not nerds. Which is totally fine, there's no minimum nerd requirement to enjoy or even podcast about these things, but it's evident when they talk about "Game of Thrones, " comic book movies, or "Star Wars" that they are casual fans and not nerds. What I previously termed a "dismissive" attitude towards GoT was really more about not being nerdy and not doing deep dives on these topics. A few examples:

-Ryan mentioned today (and has mentioned several times before) that the reason Marvel is doing "Civil War" is that they're out of interesting villains and they have to resort to the "heroes punching each other." Neither wants to see "Civil War." Again - it doesn't have to be everyone's bag, I am not criticizing them for not wanting to see a movie or for expressing an opinion contrary to mine, but I can't wait for that film. And they don't spend any time discussing why some people are excited for this next chapter in the MCU.

-The both agreed that a limitation to "superhero movies" was that they all had to be interconnected. I think the continuity in the Marvel films is a feature, not a bug. I was disappointed when "Batman Forever" ignored the fact that Harvey Dent was in the first movie, for example. Now, one can argue about which movies incorporate it more or less successfully, and you can discuss how it might hurt some films (for example, costing "Ant Man" Edgar Wright as director), but that's not what they're doing here. They're saying in one sentence, "It's a problem," full stop. They don't want to discuss when it can be a positive, they just express exhaustion with the whole thing.

-Discussing "Rogue One," Greenwald hopes that it's a stand-alone film and that it doesn't have any "connective tissue" to the rest of the "Star Wars" universe. A "Star Wars" fan just wants a fun Star Wars movie. A Star Wars nerd wants to discuss characters/lineage/all the nerdy crap we revel in down in "Omar is Dead." And, by the way, of course it's going to have connective tissue with the rest of the universe.

All of this is a long way of saying, I think these two are GoT fans but far, far from GoT nerds. Good thing they have GoT nerds as regular guests. I think the entire endeavor would be stronger with Mallory and Jason steering the ship with Andy and Chris taking a decidedly secondary role, but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[allstonite]

I listened to the latest "The Watch" today and I figured out my issue with them - they're not nerds. Which is totally fine, there's no minimum nerd requirement to enjoy or even podcast about these things, but it's evident when they talk about "Game of Thrones, " comic book movies, or "Star Wars" that they are casual fans and not nerds. What I previously termed a "dismissive" attitude towards GoT was really more about not being nerdy and not doing deep dives on these topics. A few examples:

Alright that I understand more and agree with especially as it relates to Star Wars. The strange thing about Civil War is that Andy at least seems like a huge comic book guy. For him to say they are running out of things to do seems strange. I understand the hesitation on Batman v Superman but I would think that there's some trust in the Marvel machine.

 

[johnmd20]

Alright that I understand more and agree with especially as it relates to Star Wars. The strange thing about Civil War is that Andy at least seems like a huge comic book guy. For him to say they are running out of things to do seems strange. I understand the hesitation on Batman v Superman but I would think that there's some trust in the Marvel machine.

I think Greenwald, in particular, always needs to be making a unique hottake. He has to squeeze his round peg ideas into square holes. That is why he hated a show like True Detective, Season One. And liked True Detective, Season Two. Any movie fan and Marvel fan is beyond excited for Civil War. But Greenwald has to be cool. He's not excited. He's different, see.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

-Ryan mentioned today (and has mentioned several times before) that the reason Marvel is doing "Civil War" is that they're out of interesting villains and they have to resort to the "heroes punching each other." Neither wants to see "Civil War." Again - it doesn't have to be everyone's bag, I am not criticizing them for not wanting to see a movie or for expressing an opinion contrary to mine, but I can't wait for that film. And they don't spend any time discussing why some people are excited for this next chapter in the MCU.

This is dumb and really shows a lack of knowledge on the part of the person who said it. Marvel is "out of interesting villains" and need "heroes punching each other"? That's not even remotely true. Especially considering there are two more Avengers movies on the slate and a slew of other Marvel movies coming out in the next five years. AND this what happens in Marvel comics, heroes fight each other almost as much as they fight the bad guys.

I agree with JohnMD, this is just a hot take.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think you are all mis-interpreting Ryan there. He has said several times that the biggest flaw of the MCU is a lack of good well defined villains (outside of maybe Loki) I think that's a pretty accurate criticism. The villains are just kind of there.

Edit - also Greenwald was pretty clearly in the Star Wars discussion talking about things like making Jyn Rey's mom. He wants stories that connect to the universe without having to be that closely tied to each other.

 

[SidelineCameras]

I think you are all mis-interpreting Ryan there. He has said several times that the biggest flaw of the MCU is a lack of good well defined villains (outside of maybe Loki) I think that's a pretty accurate criticism. The villains are just kind of there.

I am not sure this is a misinterpretation, more of a case of whether or not one agrees with Ryan. Sure many the MCU villains outside of Loki have been cookie-cutter, but I don't think that's the reason they decided to make the third Captain America movie about an internal Avengers conflict. It's more to do with a major comics arc from the past 10 years, and the natural drama when friends and allies have disagreements.

I double checked a previous ep where they discussed "Civil War." In Ep 58, Ryan was bemoaning the long running time and said, "This movie is Iron Man and Captain America fighting, this movie should be 27 minutes long." And later, "Why is Paul Rudd in this movie?" Dude, Paul Rudd is in this movie because he signed up to play a MCU character big enough to have his own films, he's part of a larger universe, nerds want to see Ant Man, and we appreciate the continuity. If the question is, why is an actor like Rudd in the MCU to begin with, that's a different discussion (although the answer is probably a combination of "fun" and "money." Not too difficult to ascertain there).

He shouldn't have to be a fan of a property to see the logic behind it.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I think you are all mis-interpreting Ryan there. He has said several times that the biggest flaw of the MCU is a lack of good well defined villains (outside of maybe Loki) I think that's a pretty accurate criticism. The villains are just kind of there.

I see his point, but it's a bit unfair.

I'm a bit of a Marvel fanboy, so YMMV but the reason why the "villains are just kind of there" is because they're all leading up to one ultimate Big Bad (Thanos), they're meant to be disposable. It's also the way that movies are made. You can't spend half a movie establishing the bad guy's motives when you have seven main characters (like in the Avengers), otherwise the flick would be five hours long. Presumably most people go to the movies to watch the good guys win. Aside from the Joker (and maybe Batman villains in general), there aren't a lot of times where people give a shit about the bad guy.

Of course, you can establish the motives of a bad guy on a TV show which is why the Purple Man and Kingpin were so great, but that's ten hours of film. You have a very small window to say, "This dude is evil and he's a big deal and here's why" before you start trading punches. Remember Loki was in three flicks so even though we didn't focus on him solely, he still got a lot of backstory. If Ultron or Iron Monger or another villain was given that much screen time over the same amount of movies, we'd say the same thing about him.

 

[jose melendez]

One of the kind of interesting things in the MCU, is that the most iconic villans Marvel has were in the properties outside of it, FF, X-Men and, to a lesser extent, Spiderman. That takes Dr.Doom, Magneto and to a lesser extent, Galactus, Doc Ock and green goblin off the table. Those are kind of the elites of the marvel villain universe.

The MCU is left with Loki--who they did a much better job with than I ever thought possible, Red Skull, Thanos, and Kingpin to work with. The guys in the MCU just generally have shit villains. Iron Man's real enemy is alcohol, Hulk's is the army, Thor's is Loki and then garbage, Caps is the aforementioned skull and then who? Baron Zemo? Serpent Society? Ultron is okay I guess, but at the end of the day, the most iconic Marvel villains go with the properties they don't own. What's perhaps most interesting is that MCU has been so successful without two of the three most marketable hero properties in Spidey and the X-Men.

 

[SydneySox]

Jose - I don't agree... I even did a big list on it last week or two weeks ago or something over in Omar's Dead.

I think that's an oft-repeated line but it doesn't hold up.

 

[shaggydog2000]

One of the kind of interesting things in the MCU, is that the most iconic villans Marvel has were in the properties outside of it, FF, X-Men and, to a lesser extent, Spiderman. That takes Dr.Doom, Magneto and to a lesser extent, Galactus, Doc Ock and green goblin off the table. Those are kind of the elites of the marvel villain universe.

The MCU is left with Loki--who they did a much better job with than I ever thought possible, Red Skull, Thanos, and Kingpin to work with. The guys in the MCU just generally have shit villains. Iron Man's real enemy is alcohol, Hulk's is the army, Thor's is Loki and then garbage, Caps is the aforementioned skull and then who? Baron Zemo? Serpent Society? Ultron is okay I guess, but at the end of the day, the most iconic Marvel villains go with the properties they don't own. What's perhaps most interesting is that MCU has been so successful without two of the three most marketable hero properties in Spidey and the X-Men.

Uh, Cap has Batroc the Leaper, who has both an awesome accent and excellent Savate skills. I was disappointed that he had neither the mustache nor the accent in the last movie. And Crossbones never put on a skull mask or bullied women or minorities in that movie either. But I'm guessing all that will be in Civil War.

Cap also has the Serpent Society, who all have snake themed gimmicks, the Hate Monger who is a clone of Adolf Hitler, the anti-nationalist Flag-Smasher, The Porcupine, Dr Faustus the evil Psychiatrist, Dredmund the Druid, Arnim Zola an evil geneticist with a camera for a head and a face on a TV screen in his chest, The Armadillo, he probably fought the Circus of Crime because who didn't back in the 60's, and of course the biggest bad guy of all: Richard Nixon (he was the head of the evil Secret Empire).

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

The guy with the TV screen is his chest is Arnim Zola. You also forgot MODOK.

But the Serpent Society would be bad ass. He could also track down Scourge. Have him start killing villains randomly in the TV shows and movies and then have Cap track him down and kick his ass in Captain America 5 . It would be great.

 

[Flunky]

Fox owns Kang... =\

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

As well as Kodos...

 

[Clears Cleaver]

And ESPN owns Barnwell. He just signed multi year extension to stay at ESPN.

Simmons new platform is forcing ESPN to sign not-so-great guys to longer contracts. Lol

 

[ifmanis5]

Wow, great get.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

Strange that he's doing so many interviews after all the episodes of Horace and Pete have been released.

 

[Leskanic's Thread]

Well, based on how production on that show went, I don't know if he really had time to do interviews while making the show -- it was written and produced almost in real time on a week-to-week basis.

(A more cynical perspective might be that he needs to shill to get people to pay for the show to make up for all the money he lost on the project.)

 

[TSC]

Bill is the absolute best at cutting people off right as they're the about to get deep into something interesting.

The Louis CK interview could have been so much better if Bill would just get out of Louis way.

 

[HoyaSoxa]

Bill is the absolute best at cutting people off right as they're the about to get deep into something interesting.

The Louis CK interview could have been so much better if Bill would just get out of Louis way.

So true. This was a good podcast that could have been really fascinating, but Simmons can't help but make it about himself. Particularly galling that he never followed up on the anti-Trump email after Louis alluded to it in the Shandling conversation. He needs to get better at listening if his HBO show is going to succeed, but his long history of podcasting makes that seem unlikely.

 

[johnmd20]

Well, based on how production on that show went, I don't know if he really had time to do interviews while making the show -- it was written and produced almost in real time on a week-to-week basis.

(A more cynical perspective might be that he needs to shill to get people to pay for the show to make up for all the money he lost on the project.)

That's not cynical. It's reality. He does need to get the word out, which is why he's went on BS and is going on Maron. Anyone in his position would do the same thing.

 

[Cellar-Door]

More Ringer hires: Michael Baumann from baseball prospectus, Matt Borcas who had a minor Grantland role, Rob Harvilla from Deadspin and Alyssa Bereznak from Yahoo news.

 

[luckiestman]

So true. This was a good podcast that could have been really fascinating, but Simmons can't help but make it about himself. Particularly galling that he never followed up on the anti-Trump email after Louis alluded to it in the Shandling conversation. He needs to get better at listening if his HBO show is going to succeed, but his long history of podcasting makes that seem unlikely.

Didn't Louis give the impression that he didn't really want to talk about that?

 

[HoyaSoxa]

Didn't Louis give the impression that he didn't really want to talk about that?

True, and I don't expect Simmons to grill his guests, but a follow up to ask about the uproar it caused if not the underlying substance would not have been out of line.

 

[cheech13]

(A more cynical perspective might be that he needs to shill to get people to pay for the show to make up for all the money he lost on the project.)

It's not being cynical. He confirmed as much on Howard Stern last week.

 

[Leskanic's Thread]

Fair enough; I falsely labeled it. I hope the publicity tour works out for him.

 

[ifmanis5]

Louis was on with Marc Maron's 700th WTF podcast and what a huge difference in the interview between that and Bill's podcast. Of course, Marc has a big advantage since he and Louis go back many years, but while Bill kept interrupting Louis and going for silly jokes, Marc let him talk and it went deep. So deep, with Louis crying at several different parts. Bill's interview was junior high, Marc was graduate school.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Louis was on with Marc Maron's 700th WTF podcast and what a huge difference in the interview between that and Bill's podcast. Of course, Marc has a big advantage since he and Louis go back many years, but while Bill kept interrupting Louis and going for silly jokes, Marc let him talk and it went deep. So deep, with Louis crying at several different parts. Bill's interview was junior high, Marc was graduate school.

This also just points out how truly good Maron is. Interviewing is a skill and Maron has worked hard at it. Bill is great with his friends when he has a rapport, but falls down a bit when talking to a relative stranger.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

I always get the feeling Bill is waiting to talk rather than listening, which is too bad- he gets great guests and I think actually comes up with interesting angles at times.

I haven't listened to Bill in years though, it's too bad he hasn't gotten better (although that's not surprising).

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

I listened to the Maron interview before Bill's and the difference in interview quality was stunning. Louis was there to promote his thing on both shows, but Maron actually got substance out of him. I like Bill, but his podcasts have long since been replaced as must listens for me.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

First episode of "After The Thrones" is available on HBO GO.

 

[Kliq]

Maybe reading the tea leaves a little bit here but Bill and Lowe have doing a lot of back-in-forth on Twitter lately, including Simmons consistently mentioning how it has been more than a year since they last did a podcast together. I'd love to see Zach back with Bill, but I am also enjoying his work at ESPN, particularly his stuff with Rachel Nichols on The Jump, which is a really underrated show.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

I'm assuming a Deflategate podcast is forthcoming.

 

[allstonite]

I'm assuming a Deflategate podcast is forthcoming.

I really hope not. He's exhausted it and I'm sure non-New England fans don't care at all anymore. Also, he really sucks at discussing it.

 

[luckiestman]

I listened to the Maron interview before Bill's and the difference in interview quality was stunning. Louis was there to promote his thing on both shows, but Maron actually got substance out of him. I like Bill, but his podcasts have long since been replaced as must listens for me.

Bill Simmons is the sports guy, not the sad comedian crying about plays guy. Bill would not know what to do if Louis starting sobbing, so it is best that he kept it light.

 

[Leather]

Bill Simmons is the sports guy, not the sad comedian crying about plays guy. Bill would not know what to do if Louis starting sobbing, so it is best that he kept it light.

Is Louis CK known for anything sports related?

 

[kenneycb]

Probably not but he made a few references during the interview that suggested he knew at least a decent amount about sports.

 

[luckiestman]

Is Louis CK known for anything sports related?

MVP of cock whipping out

 

[Remagellan]

Louis CK knows boxing, probably much more than Simmons does.