The bigger unspoken scandal?

[ivanvamp]

Mods feel free to merge this with the eternal thread if you would like, but I'm creating the new one because I think that this, while obviously related, deserves its own discussion and I fear it will just get lost in the abyss.  Your call.
 
Ok.
 
The reports are that Baltimore alerted Indy before the game about the Patriots using deflated footballs.  And the reports further said that the Colts alerted the refs that this might happen.  And reports further labeled this a bit of a sting operation against the Patriots, trying to catch them cheating.
 
Now, let's suppose all this is true, and let's even suppose that the Patriots did try to cheat (I think BB's presser crushed this idea but still).  
 
The refs knowingly allowed the Patriots to play with deflated footballs for the purpose of catching them cheating.  If the story is true, then this is what the refs were involved in.  
 
Think about that for a moment.  The refs therefore allowed the Patriots to play with deflated footballs for a half, in the hopes of catching them cheating.
 
Supposedly, deflated footballs are an advantage.  That's the claim anyway, from any mediot that will tell you.  Which is why the Pats wanted to use them.  Hence, "cheating".  
 
So if all this is true, then the referees deliberately allowed the Patriots to play with illegal footballs for a half.  To play at a distinct advantage for a half.  Just so they could "catch" them.
 
Think about that.  If true, ​the refs deliberately and knowingly allowed the first half of the AFC Championship Game to be played illegally, giving one team an advantage.
 
Now, if you care about things like fair play and integrity, this should shake you to the core.  If the Colts lost by one point, and it could legitimately be argued that the deflated footballs were the reason why (or a big reason why), then the NFL Commissioner's office would have tampered with a football game, keeping a deserving team out of the Super Bowl, *just so he could catch Belichick "cheating"*.  
 
This would be a scandal on a scale infinitely more explosive than the Patriots trying to use deflated footballs.  This would be the commissioner's office, in conjunction with game officials, tampering with the game itself.
 
Why hasn't THIS been brought up by any media member?  Why hasn't Goodell been forced to answer any questions along these lines?
 
BTW, good article about that here:  http://larrybrownsports.com/football/nfl-sting-operation-patriots/253272

 

[Ed Hillel]

I think you are off with the NFL. However, what I have been wondering for a while now is if the Colts knew footballs deflated during the game process and basically, for lack of a better term, set the Pats up to fail. I don't believe for a second that the Colts ballboy noticed a difference, notified the GM, and the GM instantly called the league office. I think Irsay and his assclowns hatched a plan pregame, knowing the balls would be under from pressure change. They probably overinflated a bit and asked for higher measures to avoid theirs going under by any substantial number. I absolutely believe that is plausible and, from the sounds of it, Bill may as well.

 

[snowmanny]

I dont think the refs are going to do anything until the Colts complain. But the point still stands: if the underinflated balls convey an advantage, and the Colts purposely inflated their balls to the max while allowing the the Patriots to play with underinflated balls for a half, they are even stupider than I thought they were.

 

[Frisbetarian]

"We welcome the league’s investigation into this matter. I think there are a number of things that need to be looked into on a number of levels, but that’s not for this conversation. I’m sure it will be taken up at another point in time."
 
Double B the OG in today's press conference.

 

[Leather]

I don't think under inflated balls give an advantage.

I think they overinflated the balls, knowing they'd drop the dime and knowing all balls would be checked.

I don't think the NFL knew anything about it until Sunday night.

The fact that no member of the press is bright enough to figure out a pretty basic "gotcha" scheme is kind if sad.

 

[mostman]

All of this assumes the Colts knew they would lose and needed an excuse.

Oh. Right.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

I don't think the Ravens notified the Colts -Harbaugh has denied seeing anything about deflated balls and he praised Bellichick. I also don't think there was a sting operation.

I do think that the Colts were involved in gamesmanship and trying to throw the Pats off. It blew far more than anyone intended, that's all.

 

[ivanvamp]

I understand this might not had happened this way. But this would still be a monumental scandal if it was. My question is: why aren't media members on a crusade for the answers?

 

[Leather]

I understand this might not had happened this way. But this would still be a monumental scandal if it was. My question is: why aren't media members on a crusade for the answers?

Most people don't want answers. They want confirmation that what they want to be true, is true.

See, Fox News.

 

[steveluck7]

I understand this might not had happened this way. But this would still be a monumental scandal if it was. My question is: why aren't media members on a crusade for the answers?

cuz they can be lazy, toss crap and unsubstantiated rumors out there, and people lap it up. Added bonus, they get face time on national news shows and 24 hour cable networks.
When giving zero real effort yields best possible results, why try?

 

[Turrable]

Most people don't want answers. They want confirmation that what they want to be true, is true.

See, Fox News.

 
This applies to everyone here as well. We're just right this time.

 

[Frisbetarian]

FWIW, I thought the BB comment I quoted above was a threat.

 

[Rasputin]

I find it hard to believe that the Ravens discovered the balls weren't properly inflated and didn't tell the refs in the game they were playing at the time.
 
I find it stupid that the teams have separate balls.
 
I think if you discover that all of a team's balls are improper, there should be a penalty.
 
I think this whole thing is bullshit.

 

[djbayko]

I don't think the Ravens notified the Colts -Harbaugh has denied seeing anything about deflated balls and he praised Bellichick. I also don't think there was a sting operation.

I do think that the Colts were involved in gamesmanship and trying to throw the Pats off. It blew far more than anyone intended, that's all.

 
I don't think so.  Remember, there was a late night call to Bob Kravitz to make sure this got special attention post game (and after any gamesmanship would have transpired).
 
If it was a sting, then it was the worst planned sting of all time:

1. Stings are supposed to provide iron clad evidence, which the NFL obviously doesn't have.
2. There are well justiied questions about whether or not the refs measured the ball pressure pre-game.  If it was a sting, then that would have been completed, no doubt.
3. Most importantly, while there are conflicting reports, it seems that the refs re-inflated the game balls rather than swapping in the backups, thus destroying evidence.

Conclusion: Irsay and his management staff launched a setup and are assholes.  My take on Baltimore is that they might have passed some information along, but it's neither here nor there.  Based on Harbaugh's statements, even if he did pass the information to the Colts, he didn't mean for it to be used so vindictively.

 

[Devizier]

The simplest explanation is that Irsay leaked the story to Kravitz on impulse. The rest is a combination of ass covering and bullshit.

 

[snowmanny]

I find it hard to believe that the Ravens discovered the balls weren't properly inflated and didn't tell the refs in the game they were playing at the time.
 
I find it stupid that the teams have separate balls.
 
I think if you discover that all of a team's balls are improper, there should be a penalty.
 
I think this whole thing is bullshit.

A penalty against who? The weather? The refs for approving them?

 

[Leather]

A penalty against who? The weather? The refs for approving them?

Seriously. Have the refs ensure that they are 13PSI (within a lb) 15 minutes before kickoff and then re-check at halftime.

But seriously: IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER.

 

[DJnVa]

FWIW, I thought the BB comment I quoted above was a threat.

 
Definitely.
 
It appears that not only do the Pats think they will be exonerated, they think they will be due some answers on what went down.

 

[Granite Sox]

Volin posted an article just a little while ago specifically stating that Harbaugh set up the whole situation via his buddy Pagano.

The Ravens deserve scrutiny because they are just an execrable organization, but I really hope the Colts and Irsay are treated as persona non grata moving forward for being consistently whiny snitchers who just threw up all over themselves with this situation.

I suspect the officiating crew likely had some significant missteps in here somewhere as well. Re-inflating the footballs in question? Really?

Speaking of throwing up on himself, Volin has been quite the smarmy little axe-grinder throughout this mess as well. Would enjoy him receiving the Tomase/Cafardo Treatment going forward.

 

[LogansDad]

FWIW, I thought the BB comment I quoted above was a threat.

Oh, I totally agree, Fris.

 

[Two Youks]

Volin posted an article just a little while ago specifically stating that Harbaugh set up the whole situation via his buddy Pagano.
The Ravens deserve scrutiny because they are just an execrable organization, but I really hope the Colts and Irsay are treated as persona non grata moving forward for being consistently whiny snitchers who just threw up all over themselves with this situation.
I suspect the officiating crew likely had some significant missteps in here somewhere as well. Re-inflating the footballs in question? Really?
Speaking of throwing up on himself, Volin has been quite the smarmy little axe-grinder throughout this mess as well. Would enjoy him receiving the Tomase/Cafardo Treatment going forward.

Irsay, at least, has experience with that.

 

[Carlos Cowart]

Indy are a bunch of whiny assholes - not the players, btw, many of whom have tweeted that they got their asses handed to them fair and square - the organization that's had a stick up their ass about the Pats for a decade. They correctly presumed the Pats would have their balls at 12.5 and that they'd be under regulation in the cold. They pumped theirs up to 13.5 and complained at the half, knowing all of their balls would comply and none of the Pat's would. A bush league move which may force the league tighten the rules regarding FB preparation for everyone going forward, pissing off 32 QBs, not just Tom Brady. Good job, assholes.
 
It's amazing to me how many former players along with "hometown" guys like Mazz and Felger jumped on this and uncritically believed the Pats had an attendant bleed 12 footballs on the sideline in front of 70,000 people with hand-held video cameras. I hope the Pats are feeling half as much hate as I am and use it to their advantage in the SB.

 

[Doctor G]

I don't think so.  Remember, there was a late night call to Bob Kravitz to make sure this got special attention post game (and after any gamesmanship would have transpired).
 
If it was a sting, then it was the worst planned sting of all time:

• 
  
• Stings are supposed to provide iron clad evidence, which the NFL obviously doesn't have.
• There are well justiied questions about whether or not the refs measured the ball pressure pre-game.  If it was a sting, then that would have been completed, no doubt.
• Most importantly, while there are conflicting reports, it seems that the refs re-inflated the game balls rather than swapping in the backups, thus destroying evidence.

Conclusion: Irsay and his management staff launched a setup and are assholes.  My take on Baltimore is that they might have passed some information along, but it's neither here nor there.  Based on Harbaugh's statements, even if he did pass the information to the Colts, he didn't mean for it to be used so vindictively.

plus it was a lot colder for the Ravens game.

 

[Leather]

Indy are a bunch of whiny assholes - not the players, btw, many of whom have tweeted that they got their asses handed to them fair and square - the organization that's had a stick up their ass about the Pats for a decade. They correctly presumed the Pats would have their balls at 12.5 and that they'd be under regulation in the cold. They pumped theirs up to 13.5 and complained at the half, knowing all of their balls would comply and none of the Pat's would. A bush league move which may force the league tighten the rules regarding FB preparation for everyone going forward, pissing off 32 QBs, not just Tom Brady. Good job, assholes.
 
It's amazing to me how many former players along with "hometown" guys like Mazz and Felger jumped on this and uncritically believed the Pats had an attendant bleed 12 footballs on the sideline in front of 70,000 people with hand-held video cameras. I hope the Pats are feeling half as much hate as I am and use it to their advantage in the SB.

It literally might be the biggest, stupidest, non story ever.

 

[Carlos Cowart]

Yet it will be added to the pile of nothing we'll have to have the conversation about with a [any other team] fan in 2025.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Yet it will be added to the pile of nothing we'll have to have the conversation about with a [any other team] fan in 2025.

Right alongside Edward de Vere!

 

[Harry Hooper]

I suspect the officiating crew likely had some significant missteps in here somewhere as well. Re-inflating the footballs in question? Really?

Speaking of throwing up on himself, Volin has been quite the smarmy little axe-grinder throughout this mess as well. Would enjoy him receiving the Tomase/Cafardo Treatment going forward.

 
My guess is it was the NFL operations guy who ordered the officials to pump the balls up at halftime. The ethos among refs seems to be to snap at the players, "Play the game with the balls we have!"
 
Don't forget dumping Breer into the heap.

 

[Carlos Cowart]

Right alongside Edward de Vere!

Who cleverly published topical events which occurred after his death! 
 
Now that was a fun thread.

 

[The Social Chair]

Wrong thread

 

[Ed Hillel]

I'm going to bump this, with this apparent nugget:
 

As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum.  The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI.

 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/
 
Very strange that the one ball in the Colts' possession was significantly more underinflated than the others. I'm sure Bill Nye has a logical explanation.

 

[EricFeczko]

Mods feel free to merge this with the eternal thread if you would like, but I'm creating the new one because I think that this, while obviously related, deserves its own discussion and I fear it will just get lost in the abyss.  Your call.
 
Ok.
 
The reports are that Baltimore alerted Indy before the game about the Patriots using deflated footballs.  And the reports further said that the Colts alerted the refs that this might happen.  And reports further labeled this a bit of a sting operation against the Patriots, trying to catch them cheating.
 
Now, let's suppose all this is true, and let's even suppose that the Patriots did try to cheat (I think BB's presser crushed this idea but still).  
 
The refs knowingly allowed the Patriots to play with deflated footballs for the purpose of catching them cheating.  If the story is true, then this is what the refs were involved in.  
 
Think about that for a moment.  The refs therefore allowed the Patriots to play with deflated footballs for a half, in the hopes of catching them cheating.
 
Supposedly, deflated footballs are an advantage.  That's the claim anyway, from any mediot that will tell you.  Which is why the Pats wanted to use them.  Hence, "cheating".  
 
So if all this is true, then the referees deliberately allowed the Patriots to play with illegal footballs for a half.  To play at a distinct advantage for a half.  Just so they could "catch" them.
 
Think about that.  If true, ​the refs deliberately and knowingly allowed the first half of the AFC Championship Game to be played illegally, giving one team an advantage.
 
Now, if you care about things like fair play and integrity, this should shake you to the core.  If the Colts lost by one point, and it could legitimately be argued that the deflated footballs were the reason why (or a big reason why), then the NFL Commissioner's office would have tampered with a football game, keeping a deserving team out of the Super Bowl, *just so he could catch Belichick "cheating"*.  
 
This would be a scandal on a scale infinitely more explosive than the Patriots trying to use deflated footballs.  This would be the commissioner's office, in conjunction with game officials, tampering with the game itself.
 
Why hasn't THIS been brought up by any media member?  Why hasn't Goodell been forced to answer any questions along these lines?
 
BTW, good article about that here:  http://larrybrownsports.com/football/nfl-sting-operation-patriots/253272

Its this very same logic that makes me question the claim in the first place. Such an occurrence requires three simultaneous consipiracies: a consipiracy between the ravens (whose coach is a mentee of BB) and the colts; a consipiracy between the NFL and the refs to catch the patriots, and some sort of internal patriot consipiracy to purposefully deflate footballs without getting caught by the second set of conspirators.
 
A much simpler explanation is that the collective media covering the NFL has been a shitshow this year. They see a way to get a leg up on the NFL via this "deflategate" nonsense, only to have it blow back in their collective faces. Instead of admitting they jumped to conclusions, individuals in the media are either flip-flopping or doubling-down on consipiracies. To make matters worse, these individuals are publishing reported pieces as fact, when they are just making shit up.

 

[ivanvamp]

Florio's latest column (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/) asserts that this was a trap laid against the Pats. A dying operation gone horribly wrong.

We still don't know if this is true but we now have reason to believe that:

1. The Ravens and Colts may have been working together,

2. The NFLsy indeed have been trying to trap the Pats,

3. Heavily involved in this is a former Jets' employee who is not, shall we say, impartial, when it comes to the Patriots, and

4. The Patriots' football that was the most under inflated was the one that the Colts had in their possession for a little while.

None of this proves anything. But there's now a hell of a lot more reason to think that there is a major scandal brewing here than that the Pats actually cheated.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I am sorry.  There is no story "here".  The NFL is not going to let this become a multi-franchise scandal including a sting operation with the referees.  It just won't.  The media won't get any smoking gun and, frankly, the fans won't care.  Just accept the fact that the Patriots are cheaters and move on.  I will take that any day versus most of the other NFL franchises who have have zero shot of playing in meaningful games in February and instead play their games via the press and the officials.  

 

[Harry Hooper]

Regarding the INT ball reportedly 2 lbs under, the Colts equipment guy might have done a pressure check on the sidelines and {even with no malfeasance} had a few tenths of pressure bleed off. 

 

[triniSox]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/did-nfl-run-sting-operation-on-patriots-to-trigger-deflate-gate--051258575.html

 

[theapportioner]

I'm coming around to the idea that parties within the NFL did try to conduct a "sting" operation based on information provided by the Colts, before the game. I'm not sure the referees were in on it in the beginning of the game, though --perhaps that's why the NFL can't honestly answer the question about whether gauges were used to check the pressures prior to the game, because the refs were doing what they usually do, which is give them a little feel, instead of properly conducting a sting operation with the proper initial data. 
 
The owners are "upset" because if this conclusion is true, some NFL front offices heads will have to roll, and they are "upset" that Bill Belichick didn't give them any cover whatsoever by being more "contrite". It's all on them now.

 

[theapportioner]

By the way, here's the NFL's main line. 212 450 2000. I personally am going to call them a few times today to get some "answers".
 
Edit: apparently these are other working numbers: 212 450 2027 and 212 581 4742.
 
Edit 2: left a message at the 2027 number. What I said was this (paraphrased):
 
"Hello, my name is _____ _______. I am a concerned fan of the National Football League. I am particularly concerned about recent reports that the NFL may have conducted a sting operation on the New England Patriots during the AFC Championship. I feel that it is important for the sanctity of the game that the NFL disclose what they know about this "deflategate" "scandal"; in particular, whether they knew about the deflated footballs prior to the game and conducted a sting operation, and if the referees properly checked the footballs prior to the game with pressure gauges. I believe it is important for the integrity of the game that the NFL disclose this information ASAP with a press conference by Mr. Goodell today. Please call me back at ___-___-____. I will try calling again several time later today. Thanks."

 

[jsinger121]

If the NFL did a sting without warning the Patriots in the past this season about concerns with footballs then I would sue the league if I am Kraft. To drag an organization through the mud especially during the 2 weeks up to the Super Bowl is tasteless and uncalled for especially when this is one the leagues premier franchises.

 

[Granite Sox]

My gut feeling is that Robert has his own team of investigators looking at a variety of things.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

If there's a sting here, I can't imagine it was run out of Park Avenue--Kensil's smart enough to do this sort of thing right if he's going to do it at all.  This has Irsay Productions written all over it.
 
I'd love to be a fly on the wall around the Colts training facility when it begins to dawn on the players that they're playing for an owner who is more focused on playing gotcha with other owners rather than giving the team every possible chance to win on the field.  Ball pressure?  Big deal, but what else would he try?

 

[Ed Hillel]

My gut feeling is that Robert has his own team of investigators looking at a variety of things.

After hearing all that has happened, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Kraft who insisted on Bringing in Wells and all these other firms.

Imagine if they ran a sting, and they didn't tell the refs, who never properly measured the footballs.

 

[Ed Hillel]

If there's a sting here, I can't imagine it was run out of Park Avenue--Kensil's smart enough to do this sort of thing right if he's going to do it at all.  This has Irsay Productions written all over it.
 
I'd love to be a fly on the wall around the Colts training facility when it begins to dawn on the players that they're playing for an owner who is more focused on playing gotcha with other owners rather than giving the team every possible chance to win on the field.  Ball pressure?  Big deal, but what else would he try?

If Kensil did this on his own, I would not at all be surprised if he gets shitcanned by the time this is over. There can't be anyone who would support his actions, save maybe Irsay:

 

[Rovin Romine]

This also could have just been a somewhat premeditated attempt by the Colts to rattle Brady, much like a baseball manager complaining about a pitcher's necklace being distracting, or there being too much pine tar on a bat.  Perhaps the execution failed or the refs didn't react as the Colts' hoped; we shouldn't assume that the result is exactly what the Colts intended,or that the long term effects were thought-through.    

 

[TFP]

This also could have just been a somewhat premeditated attempt by the Colts to rattle Brady, much like a baseball manager complaining about a pitcher's necklace being distracting, or there being too much pine tar on a bat.  Perhaps the execution failed or the refs didn't react as the Colts' hoped; we shouldn't assume that the result is exactly what the Colts intended,or that the long term effects were thought-through.    

Which is exactly how I believe Spygate started too. Mangini was trying to tweak the Pats and never thought the NFL would be so incompetent.

 

[Harry Hooper]

After hearing all that has happened, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Kraft who insisted on Bringing in Wells and all these other firms.

 

 
 
It's possible. On the other hand, I can see the Commish as pissing in his shorts about doing anything these days, so he needs the comfort of throwing millions of $ into forensics and investigations before he's comfortable enough to act, even on the simplest disciplinary matters.
 
 
 
Curran on CSNNE described a red-faced Irsay jabbering at his GM in the lndy locker room after the game. Looks like Irsay's fingerprints may be all over this.

 

[Marciano490]

By the way, here's the NFL's main line. 212 450 2000. I personally am going to call them a few times today to get some "answers".
 
Edit: apparently these are other working numbers: 212 450 2027 and 212 581 4742.
 
Edit 2: left a message at the 2027 number. What I said was this (paraphrased):
 
"Hello, my name is _____ _______. I am a concerned fan of the National Football League. I am particularly concerned about recent reports that the NFL may have conducted a sting operation on the New England Patriots during the AFC Championship. I feel that it is important for the sanctity of the game that the NFL disclose what they know about this "deflategate" "scandal"; in particular, whether they knew about the deflated footballs prior to the game and conducted a sting operation, and if the referees properly checked the footballs prior to the game with pressure gauges. I believe it is important for the integrity of the game that the NFL disclose this information ASAP with a press conference by Mr. Goodell today. Please call me back at ___-___-____. I will try calling again several time later today. Thanks."

 
Did you make the quotes with your fingers while you were on the phone or did you say "quote unquote"?

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 

[Reverend]

 

[Reverend]

I am sorry. There is no story "here". The NFL is not going to let this become a multi-franchise scandal including a sting operation with the referees. It just won't. The media won't get any smoking gun and, frankly, the fans won't care. Just accept the fact that the Patriots are cheaters and move on. I will take that any day versus most of the other NFL franchises who have have zero shot of playing in meaningful games in February and instead play their games via the press and the officials.

Jay Glazer has unnamed sources. Outside of that, it looks like almost all of the stories stem from the fact that the Ravens thought the kicking balls were a little bit softer in a 20 degree game and the fact that early on, a lot of reporters didn't understand that the kicking balls are kept separate from the other balls.

John Harbaugh has said this story isn't true. Now we're getting a proliferation of stories about whether or not there might be a story and the story is becoming why there is no story of journalists investigating something that appears not to exist.

That way madness lies. If someone can post a credible source that a sting happened, fine--or PM me after the fact--fine, but otherwise, this thread is being closed shortly.

Be like Brodie:

 

[BroodsSexton]

 
So on top of everything else, add blasphemy to the list of Patriots' (fans) offenses.