Brooklyn is 24-27, and Atlanta is 25-26. The Celtics get the better team's pick, so the trend is promising for the Attlebicken pick: Pierce and Garnett scrape into the playoffs, and the Celtics pick just after the Hawks. Which college players are good value at #16?
The ATL/BKN pick
- Thread starter Sprowl
- Start date
I am hoping Willie Cauley-Stein (Sophomore) from Kentucky drops to that pick. He's a 7 footer who's very agile for his height (WR in high school). Needs to improve his offensive game, but would benefit a lot playing up tempo with Rondo. Should get tons of second chance points at the NBA level, and doesn't need to possess the ball to be effective.
The Hawks have lost five in a row and Detroit is showing signs of life. If the Knicks could finally get their shit together, the possibility of both the Nets and Hawks sliding out of the playoffs is still a possible dream.
I wish there were truth to the rumor that Atnalta was interested in Jeff Green, because a couple of picks in the 10-16 range might allow Boston to nab Rodney Hood and someone that slides (hopefully Willie Cauley-Stein since I think he has a good chance to turn into a Tyson Chandler-type player).
Yeah, it might need to be Cleveland that makes a big run over the final 30 to make it possible. I'm hoping the Horford injury has finally caught up to the Hawks and they freefall the rest of the way.
I have no interest in Cauley-Stein, just another rim protector with no other skills. James Young, Adrien Payne, McDermott are all better picks imo.
Clint Capela is an interesting prospect. The Geneva native is very long and athletic, and is averaging 7.5ppg and 5.5 rpg and 2 bpg is shooting 66% from the floor in only 18 minutes a game. Draft express has him going #16.
Clint Capela is an interesting prospect. The Geneva native is very long and athletic, and is averaging 7.5ppg and 5.5 rpg and 2 bpg is shooting 66% from the floor in only 18 minutes a game. Draft express has him going #16.
Nik Stauskas!
I think he could be a nice offensive guy off the bench in the Harden/Ginobili mold. Great handles, gets to his spots, dead eye shooter. Looks like he can distribute well for a shooting guard.
I think he could be a nice offensive guy off the bench in the Harden/Ginobili mold. Great handles, gets to his spots, dead eye shooter. Looks like he can distribute well for a shooting guard.
The X Man Cometh said:Nik Stauskas!
I think he could be a nice offensive guy off the bench in the Harden/Ginobili mold. Great handles, gets to his spots, dead eye shooter. Looks like he can distribute well for a shooting guard.
I don't see the Harden comp at all, but I do think Stauskas should be a consideration with this pick. At worst you're getting a lights out shooter your can bring off the bench who can nail open 3's when your "stars" draw double teams.
Other guys I like in this range:
Wayne Selden- SG Kansas. Gets lost in the shuffle a bit with the Jayhawks, but plays strong D and can get to the basket. Tends to disappear at times, which is a concern, but shows up when his team needs him when guys like Wiggins and Embiid are having off nights.
Clint Capella- PF playing in France. Athletic freak who's on the rise. If he's on the board, might be worth taking the risk on the upside. If the C's miss out on the top 3, causing the rebuild a slight delay, it could make sense to try to keep him overseas for a year to develop.
PJ Hairston- SG. Has a few red flags that need to be investigated, which caused him to get kicked out of UNC, but has been playing well in the D League and has the physical tools to be a starter. Can hit the 3 and finish at the rim.
Chris Walker- PF. Another upside play like Capella, Walker just got cleared to play at Florida and made an impact in his first game in limited minutes. Can jump out of the gym, but needs work both in the gym and offensively if he wants to be more than just an athlete.
I like Payne, but he doesn't really fit on the current C's roster. I could also see Ainge liking Sam Dekker as a do-it-all forward that can be a 6th man on a really good team. But I'd be looking for a home run with that pick. The C's aren't one player away, especially if they end up outside of the top 3 with their own pick, so go for upside.
Obviously it depends on what happens with their higher pick. Assuming they pick in the 5-8 range (likely) and take a guard (guards will likely be the best players available in that range), they should go big with the second pick unless someone slips (which almost always happens, e.g. Sullinger). For example, Doug McDermott or Tyler Ennis might slip if they don't play well in the NCAA tournament.
If no one slips, I'd look to an international player. IMHO they are still undervalued, both in the draft and after they get into the league. (Why isn't Goran Dragic an all star?)
So I'd take a close look at Dario Saric, who is very skilled, the already mentioned Capela and Jusuf Nurkic, the 19 year-old, 6-11 280 lb. Bosnian who is playing very well in the Adriatic league. Nurkic could be stashed for an additional year of seasoning in Europe and could turn out to be a very nice player.
Having said that, I do like Stauskas and Payne. I'm not sure why people call Payne a bad fit: would Taj Gibson be a bad fit? That's the kind of player I think Payne might become.
Lastly I would stay away from guys like James Young and Jerami Grant, because I don't think they are ready for the NBA.
If no one slips, I'd look to an international player. IMHO they are still undervalued, both in the draft and after they get into the league. (Why isn't Goran Dragic an all star?)
So I'd take a close look at Dario Saric, who is very skilled, the already mentioned Capela and Jusuf Nurkic, the 19 year-old, 6-11 280 lb. Bosnian who is playing very well in the Adriatic league. Nurkic could be stashed for an additional year of seasoning in Europe and could turn out to be a very nice player.
Having said that, I do like Stauskas and Payne. I'm not sure why people call Payne a bad fit: would Taj Gibson be a bad fit? That's the kind of player I think Payne might become.
Lastly I would stay away from guys like James Young and Jerami Grant, because I don't think they are ready for the NBA.
Kliq said:
A rim protector is a REALLY important skill though. Defensive anchors don't exactly grow on trees, and with Sullinger and Olynyk the other young bigs on the roster, WCS would compliment them really well. He measured out as a legit 7', and he has plus athleticism and energy. He's a late bloomer for sure, and his offensive game is very raw, but if he lasts to their 2nd 1st round pick, I'd be shocked.
EL Jeffe said:
Rim protecting is great, but when you have other real skills, it can only get you so far. From what I have watched, Cauley-Stein is a good shot blocker, but he will not be able to score at all in the NBA. His points in college basically come from the space that Randle creates. Despite his size, he isn't a great rebounder, I can easily see him being Festus Ezeli 2.0, and at the very best, a specialist player. For that pick, I want to get more out of it. I would much rather have McDermott or Payne.
I think KJ McDaniels is really interesting prospect because of his trajectory. He's an elite athlete with huge upside as a defensive-oriented wing player. But the more intriguing thing is that he arrived at Clemson with basically no offensive skills yet in the last couple years has become a decent college scorer and spot up shooter (34% from 3, 86% from the line). He's probably not a good enough shooter from range right now to be a valuable NBA piece but the fact that he has essentially learned to shoot and handle the ball in the past two years gives some real hope that he hasn't yet reached his potential in that regard. He's also had some big games against top ACC competition - he basically destroyed Duke in a game where he spent a lot of time matching up against Hood and, to a lesser extent, Parker. You can definitely see the potential for him to become a top 3 and D wing who also contributes a lot in terms of rebounding and transition offense.
By the way, unless the Nets suffer some more injuries I think you can book this pick for the #18-20 range rather than #16. They're 14-6 in 2014 and I'll be shocked if they don't finish in the 3-4-5 range in the East in terms of W/L record.
You may be right, but they had an easy schedule in January. Their only "quality" win was at OKC on January 2.
Like the Celtics, they go on a West Coast swing right after the all-star break and they also have some tough road games in the second half of March. I wouldn't pencil them in to the 3-4-5 slot quite yet.
At this point, I think Ennis is more likely to go in the top 5 than he is to be around at 16-20 or something.
ElcaballitoMVP said:
His playing style reminds me a ton of Harden. Tall, not much of an athlete, but he has a really tight handle so he can get where he wants anyway. Like Harden it looks like he dribbles the ball like a foot of the court. And he has that herky-jerky thing in his game like Harden where he lulls you to sleep then elevates or passes the ball without warning.
Not saying he's the next Harden but the poor man's one? Sure.
They've also beaten Miami, Golden State, San Antonio, Dallas, and Atlanta twice in 2014. Those aren't quality wins?Brickowski said:
I don't think this is a great team but they're certainly playing better ball than the Wizards and the Hawks, which are the only teams they need to pass in order to get into the 3-4-5 range. Its not hard to see them potentially passing the Raptors or the Bulls either if things break right (although both of those teams have been playing surprisingly well).
Well, in their win at home against San Antonio, Duncan, Parker, Ginobli and Diaw didn't play. In their home win against Miami, Wade and Chalmers didn't play, and Shuttlesworth was 2-14 from the field, including 0-5 on three pointers.
And if I were a Nets fan, I wouldn't derive much satisfaction from their game last night against the Bulls.
I'll concede San Antonio but beating Miami is still a good win (why does it count less because an opposing player missed shots?) and the larger point still stands that their competition for the #5 spot in the east completely sucks.Brickowski said:
When you have the bulk to be the post defender and the quickness to be the primary help defender your skillset isn't the type that grows on trees. If WCS is available 15-17 he's a bargain and Boston should say their novenas and grab him. McDermott is a Jared Sullinger-slow 6'7" PF. He'll have a nice NBA career as a 9th man that shoots threes off the bench. And if that's your baseline for what you want out of an mid first round pick then a guy that projects as an actual NBA starter exceeds it.Kliq said:
nighthob said:
Yeah shooting is a final touch. If you have the rest in place you can get a McDermott with the MLE. If I'm going offense only I want a guy who can be an all around scorer and playmaker.
Anybody have any insight into Delon Wright? He has very little buzz on the big draft web sites but every time I flick past a Utah game (I live in SLC) this kid is just killing other Pac-12 teams. Big long (although kind of skinny) PG who handles well, can really run the pick and roll, is super active on defense, and can really finish in traffic. Maybe 18-20 is too high for him but he can definitely play.
Yes, both points are fair. LeBron and Bosh (who was held to 10 pts) did play in that game, and the Nets are a favorite for the 5th seed. The Wizards will probably find a way to implode.
If Cauley-Stein skil was only in rim protecting you would have somewhat of a case however in today's pick-n-roll halfcourt offenses it is crucial that your bigs can move their feet and WCS has effectively shut down guards in switches due to his quickness and agility in defending the perimeter.Kliq said:
His comp has been Tyson Chandler by many, myself included, and WCS is more physically advanced at the same age. Also, he does have some individual moves with the ball that Calapari rarely uses as I've seen his score on the block with both his right and left hand on jump hooks. He shoots up in individual workouts I can't see him lasting past 10-12 and he could go earlier.
I've only watched Kentucky once this year (and then I was focused on Randle) but the scouting videos on DraftExpress and elsewhere certainly confirm that Cauley-Stein has outstanding lateral mobility for a 7 footer.
My problem with him (based only on a few videos) is bad hands. It's not so much that he's raw offensively because you can learn a jumpshot, you can learn footwork in the post, etc. But I've never seen a player with bad hands develop into a player who has good ones. It's like court vision for a point guard. Either you have it (Rondo) or you don't (Bradley).
My problem with him (based only on a few videos) is bad hands. It's not so much that he's raw offensively because you can learn a jumpshot, you can learn footwork in the post, etc. But I've never seen a player with bad hands develop into a player who has good ones. It's like court vision for a point guard. Either you have it (Rondo) or you don't (Bradley).
Blacken said:
Without a doubt.
With the way the game is played/called, its not physically possible to defend penetration laterally. You'll just get nickel and dimed for touch fouls, or die a death by a thousand corner threes. Got to contest over the top to stop the best scorers. Look at the effect Hibbert and Noah have for their teams as defensive anchors, because they can defend penetration vertically.
Is rim protection worth playing 4 on 5 at the offensive end? That might protect the other team's rim as much as it protects yours.
This wouldn't be the case with WCS. Don't listen to those who say he's worse than Rodman offensively as this simply is not true. Calipari doesn't call his number at all. His footwork is good and he's had several nice fluid jump hooks on the block I've seen using each hand.Brickowski said:
As far as his hands go.....WCS calling card with be defending pick-n-roll which he is as good as I've ever seen from a big and altering shots in the paint. Nobody is calling him a Drummond or a Lopez offensively.....his hands will be more than passable for what his role will be.
Well, my evaluation of Cauley-Stein is based on a very small sample size. I'll have to watch Kentucky a few more times. How does he compare to Nerlins Noel, the other big Kentucky defender who has been compared to Chandler?
Brickowski said:
WCS has much more strength to battle in the post than Noel did in his 1-and-done season. WCS is versatile as a defender, he can alter shots, defend the PnR, and he can bang down low.
Brickowski said:
I would prefer an offensively talented big man too, but the C's did win a championship with Kendrick Perkins as their starting C.
Unlike Noel he's already NBA ready physically and only going to get stronger. WCS can defend wings and guards on the perimeter.....he's locked down high scoring guards on intentional switches he is that agile away from the basket and very long.Brickowski said:
Don't believe others offensive comments as I've said repeatedly. His first touch tonight he scored easily on a fluid back to the basket move.....Cal just doesn't call his number with all his other options. This is another area where he should greatly improve as Cal and the college zone slows him down.....look at Drummond when he was at UConn and what he's doing now offensively while still only 20.
Yeah, C.S. Willie is not going to be an offensive liability. He's definitely a garbageman, but, isn't that what you want out of a defensive anchor? He handles switches on the pick & roll with ease, which is a major advantage with modern NBA offenses. If the Celtics walk out of this draft with one of the scorers with the first pick and Cauley-Stein with the second they should be sacrificing goats to Satan in praise of the faustian bargain they struck.
Well, I believe what I saw tonight as I watched Florida demolish Kentucky in Lexington. Based on Cauley-Stein's performance, I wouldn't waste a second round pick on him.
Would you change your mind if somebody cobbled together a fuzzy highlight reel youtube video displaying nothing but his greatest hits against the worst competition?
Florida demolished Kentucky tonight? They were trailing for the majority of the game until about 7-8 minutes were remaining.Brickowski said:
Florida outscored Kentucky big time in the second half. They won going away, and you don't often see visting teams do that in Lexington. Cauley-Stein blocked a couple of shots, but was otherwise invisible, particularly in the second half. He made no plays. And where was the rim protection? Scottie Wilbekin had no trouble getting into the lane and Patric Young made at least two key baskets down on the block.
Are there any other players besides Cauley-Stein that the Celtics would likely be targeting with this pick?
Florida won going away from FT's down the stretch.....it was a 2-point game with under 3 minutes to go in the game. That isn't being demolished no matter how you try to justify it.Brickowski said:
Well of course WCS is a flawed player as will everyone being discussed potentially available at #17-18 will be......and it's extremely unlikely WCS free falls to this level especially since his combine numbers figure to be sick for a guy his size.
One of my sleepers for the pick is Semaj Christon from Xavier, a PG who is playing off the ball much of the time this year. He can play in this league.
OK, the Wildcats weren't demolished. But they were outplayed. They had no answer for Florida's guards. As for WCS, maybe it was his worst game of the year. His play had better improve, or he'll be at the end of Calipari's bench.
Well, you have Christon, Jordan Clarkson from Missouri and Elfrid Payton, who made the U19 team and outplayed a number of guys with bigger names. They are similar players. DraftExpress has all three going somewhere in the middle of the second round, while NBAdraftnet has them going higher. IMHO DraftExpress has it right. 6-4 combo guards are a dime a dozen, and for that reason I think Gary Harris could slip and may be available in the late teens. And I'm not sure I'd want him, either.
Well, you have Christon, Jordan Clarkson from Missouri and Elfrid Payton, who made the U19 team and outplayed a number of guys with bigger names. They are similar players. DraftExpress has all three going somewhere in the middle of the second round, while NBAdraftnet has them going higher. IMHO DraftExpress has it right. 6-4 combo guards are a dime a dozen, and for that reason I think Gary Harris could slip and may be available in the late teens. And I'm not sure I'd want him, either.
Buffalo Head said:
Here's the names that DraftExpress has mocked to the 15-30 spots:
SF Jerami Grant
PF Clint Capela
SF Rodney Hood
SG P.J. Hairston
SG Nik Stauskas
PF Adreian Payne
SF K.J. McDaniels
SF Sam Dekker
PF Montrezl Harrell
C Jusuf Nurkic
SG Wayne Selden
SF/PF T.J. Warren
SF Kyle Anderson
SG Bogdan Bogdanovic
SG C.J. Wilcox
C Mitch McGary
Of this group, the most attractive name to me is Jerami Grant by far. He's 6'7" with a 7'2.5" wingspan, defends 3s, but with his awesome shot blocking and mobility he could probably defend 2s and 4s as well. He has instincts and feel for the game despite his lack of offensive skills at the moment, if he fills out that skillset with a jumper he's a very valuable player.
Worst case scenario? He never develops, he's still got some utility because of his defensive prowess. To me its the kind of calculated risk you have to take.
The other two names that intrigue me there are Nik Stauskas and P.J. Hairston. I don't know anything about the Euros other than watching their DX videos but Bogdanovic and Nurkic look like guys with big upsides.
My "dream draft" right now would be to get Embiid with our own pick, get Jerami Grant with the Atlanta/Brooklyn pick, and then after the draft or with a bought pick, get Jerami's brother Jerian who is a 6'5" combo guard with long arms who can run the point and shoot to leave school and come play with his brother. Might as well bring Harvey back as an assistant coach to sweeten the deal for him?
5 - Embiid
4 - Sully
3 - Jerami Grant
2 - ?
1 - ?
Then we can evaluate how these guys play with Rondo, Jerian can get into the PG mix if Rondo leaves or get minutes at shooting guard if Bradley is not retained.
5 - Embiid
4 - Sully
3 - Jerami Grant
2 - ?
1 - ?
Then we can evaluate how these guys play with Rondo, Jerian can get into the PG mix if Rondo leaves or get minutes at shooting guard if Bradley is not retained.
For comparison purposes, here is 15-30 from NBAdraft.net, which is quite a bit different:
15. Kyle Anderson
16. Dario Saric
17. T.J. Warren
18. James Young
19. Semaj Christon
20. Vasile Micic
21. Clint Capela
22. Elfrid Payton
23. Aaron Gordon
24. Markel Brown
25. Willie Cauley-Stein
26. Adreian Payne
27. Montrezl Harrell
28. Terran Petteway
29. Deonte Burton
30. Jabari Brown
Meanwhile they've got Jordan Clarkson and Zach Levine going in the lottery, while DraftExpress has them going in the second round. After the first 7-8 picks there seems to be very little consensus although I realize it is early. Frankly there's not a single player on either list that I love. Capela probably has the most upside, but the complaint about him is that he's a selfish gunner and lazy on defense. So I guess that means he'll fit right in.
15. Kyle Anderson
16. Dario Saric
17. T.J. Warren
18. James Young
19. Semaj Christon
20. Vasile Micic
21. Clint Capela
22. Elfrid Payton
23. Aaron Gordon
24. Markel Brown
25. Willie Cauley-Stein
26. Adreian Payne
27. Montrezl Harrell
28. Terran Petteway
29. Deonte Burton
30. Jabari Brown
Meanwhile they've got Jordan Clarkson and Zach Levine going in the lottery, while DraftExpress has them going in the second round. After the first 7-8 picks there seems to be very little consensus although I realize it is early. Frankly there's not a single player on either list that I love. Capela probably has the most upside, but the complaint about him is that he's a selfish gunner and lazy on defense. So I guess that means he'll fit right in.
Well, aside from the fact that they're more likely to be drafting him 8-10 than 15-17. Boston needs everything, including a PG as their incumbent has been discussing teaming up with one of his old high school teammates, and if they can't convince Anthony to come here then the Rondo era is coming to an end.Buffalo Head said:
So, guys likely on their board...
James Young Tough to know whether he lasts in to the mid first, if he does he has to be near the top of Boston's list for this slot. A swingman that can score. He won't ever be a primary scoring option, but is probably ideal for an "other guy on the floor" role offensively while playing solid D. But there's hope that he could be a third or even second option offensively.
Semaj Christon Big PG. Maybe big enough to guard the 2, meaning that he fits in well with Bayless and Bradley.
Clint Capella International man of mystery. From the tape I've seen, long and mobile. They don't need to bring him in immediately, and the better he looks overseas the more trade value he has.
KJ McDaniels Probably a SG at the next level, though he might be a capable swingman if he can add another 15-20 lbs. Strong defensively, offensive asset.
Rodney Hood He can score. Doesn't do much else.
Mitch McGary I think he's a legit C. Not a great player, and better if you have someone like Larry Sanders in front of him.
Brickowski said:
Um Is that Aaron Gordon 6'9" Freshman of the #4 Arizona Wildcats? If he's still around at the second pick you jump all over him. I can't imagine him lasting that long, or WCS either. And I still like Payne as a nice complimentary 4 to Sullinger.
Christon's my guy. I love him to make it at the next level and guys like that I don't ever let slip to the 2nd round.......especially when we'll likely have a need at that position.nighthob said: