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Terry Coming Up Rozes

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by lovegtm, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    If Davis were to become available this season, I have little doubt that Ainge would send Kyrie, as part of the package, to New Orleans in a beignet heartbeat. Assuming he is still here, Terry would then get the keys to the castle.
     
  2. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    But how does that make sense for New Orleans?

    Unlikely Kyrie would stay there.

    They're renting him for their superstar?
     
  3. amarshal2

    amarshal2 Member SoSH Member

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    Three of those he could have said without getting fined. It's only the last that requires being vague. So, I agree with your conclusion.

    My guess: he's requested to be traded and Ainge asked him to do the follow-up tweet to not totally kill his market.

    The biggest pay day of his life looms this off-season. If he's concluded that the current situation is going to depress his market I wouldn't argue (any more) and I'd agree he's right to want to get out.
     
  4. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It would hurt but this only works if Ainge parts with significant assets. Horford, Kyrie and Jaylen for Davis and Holiday works under trade rules. Ainge would have to include some form of picks too. Its unlikely to happen but if Davis gets frustrated who knows.
     
  5. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    This is correct. The issue in this thread is that that stops the Celtics from making any AD move (that doesn't include Kyrie) in the meantime.
     
  6. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Then again, you could blink and win if AD isn't dealt.
     
  7. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    2nd prize is a set of steak knives. 3rd prize is you're fired!

     
  8. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    I know we've discussed this in other threads......trying to keep Rozier stuff localized (I'm as guilty of hijacking as anyone if not more).

    I threw out some teams who may want to move a rotation/bench guard to give Rozier the keys this year as their potential long-term 1. I specifically used Orlando as a match where Boston would receive an additional year of control on DJ Augustin if the Magic really liked Rozier. GM's dislike trading within Conference and especially within Division but Ainge as much as anyone is secure enough in his position to possibly weigh this factor less than most. What about the Knicks for Ntilikina's 2 additional years of control? He's a multi-positional defender that Ainge/Stevens love while not requiring shots to create a better roster balance. In addition, he's probably available as he wasn't drafted by the current Knicks leadership.

    If Ainge is committed to moving him by the deadline (just go with this) having two years of a young, long, athletic multi-positional defender who has been in a dysfunctional situation ever since he entered the league would seem to be a pretty awesome return for a guy not in our future plans. C'mon Knicks you know Terry is your PG of the future!
     
  9. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    I'd be all in favor of a Ntilikina trade for exactly those reasons. The Knicks are the exact type of team that could go for this too. In addition, Frank's skillset is such that if he played 15-20 mins/game for the next 2 years, he'd be very resignable in RFA--he's not the kind of guy teams really dream on.

    Terry would also solve a big need for the Knicks. I watched them 2 days ago, and Hezonja was defacto point on a lot of possessions.
     
  10. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I don't see how Ntilikina and Smart could co-exist on that 2nd unit. Talk about no spacing. From a pure value play, it makes some sense.
     
  11. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    I think Smart is quickly solidifying himself as the glue to our FIRST unit. At least with my Ntilikina plan that is where he'd be playing. I'm really high on his defensive potential and in todays game switchy long perimeter defenders of multiple positions are in great demand on contenders. Worst case we have a deep bench wing insurance guy for next year.....best case is we really have a modern day Bruce Bowen in a few years. Low risk, High reward with 2+ years of control is what I like here.
     
  12. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Gotcha. Knicks fans in NYC basically think Ntilikina is a waste. I see some potential here and I think we could extract more value as well. The NY Post just ran an article saying how scouts are calling him "soft". Guy is in a new country and is 20 years-old. Would love for the Knicks to give up on him.
     
  13. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Of course his style of play is a waste on a lottery team. This is why someone like Ariza and those skillset types are so valuable in their role on a winning team while being a waste in the clusterf* situations. The other factor here which is likely affecting his confidence is that "his guys" who drafted him are long gone and not here to support their investment.
     
  14. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I didn't see this before:

     
  15. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Also, he's being sued for the Scary Terry stuff.
     
  16. Light-Tower-Power

    Light-Tower-Power Member SoSH Member

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    I think Terry enjoys feeling wanted. He has made comments in the past about how there should be a bunch of teams interested in him. Him looking really happy and joining in on the Hayward Gatorade bath the other night abated my fears of him being a malcontent in the locker room.
     
  17. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Could you elaborate?

    I'm not even familiar with the original of "scary Terry" as a nickname. Is it a reference, or a moniker given to him directly?
     
  18. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  19. NoXInNixon

    NoXInNixon Member SoSH Member

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    It's a reference to the Rick and Morty episode "Lawnmower Dog".
     
  20. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Rozier speaks on issues.

     
  21. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    "play favorites" usually means "...in spite of evidence that would alter the decision, were it meritocratic".

    If he thinks he's better than Kyrie Irving or Gordon Hayward, he's the only one.
     
  22. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    It's clear that Rozier doesn't want to be here unless he's playing starters minutes, which ain't happening. The good news is that by all accounts he's been a good citizen in the locker room and on the floor. And he says the right things at the end of that interview about toughing it out and playing it through it. As long as he and his agent realize that he's not going anywhere until the trade market develops across the league, which typically happens in January and February, the team should be OK.
     
  23. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Veterans, the highest paid players and the highest draft picks have been given preferential treatment since the league began. It has existed in some form since Naismith. Nice revelation Terry lol.

    I've said this before but nearly every successful NBA player has at one time or another felt they were the better player than the starter or the best player on the floor. Without that confidence they wouldn't have gotten to where they are especially the guards. Isaiah, Jordan Crawford, the other combo guard we added midseason in Crawford's year, Rozier......and on and on. This also has gone on since Naismith. Go to any HS class reunion and there will be stories about how the coach screwed then over.

    Nobody is going to convince Rozier, Jaylen or Tatum (or virtually any 1st round pick) that they aren't capable of being the best player on the team if only given the ball. This is what makes the transition to the bench so difficult then when you add the contract stuff and your "support team" chirping in your ear....oh boy.
     
  24. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

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    I would be reading way more into these comments if he didn't just give Hayward a Gatorade bath. Hayward was clearly the recipient of unearned minutes early on, and if Rozier truly resented that, then it doesn't make a ton of sense that he'd celebrate his coming out party.
     
  25. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    This is all heat of the moment stuff when they are competing. That's a far different phenomenon then how you feel off the floor when all of those other dangerous and negative thoughts are running through your head.
     
  26. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Ainge, as a former professional athlete in two major professional leagues - especially at a time when the money wasn't quite what it is today - likely understands better than most what guys like Rozier are thinking in contract years. As such, I expect him to manage this situation pretty well. If Rozier's concerns over his future are negatively impacting the team and Ainge feels that there is no way to mitigate it, there will be a trade. However its undeniable that an efficient Rozier makes the team's roster better so the Cs aren't just going to give him away.

    There is an argument to be made to Rozier's camp that his current role with the shot at winning won't cost him money and may likely boost his value. Most NBA GMs are pretty shrewd these days and many front-offices have scouting/analytics departments who are digging a little deeper than PPG to evaluate players. Regardless of what Rozier's numbers look like at the end of the year, his market should be pretty established by now given his skill-set. Teams will look at him for his potential and fit going forward - not what he did as a reserve for the Celtics.

    Of course, its easy to understand how Rozier's camp might not see it that way. Hopefully Ainge and Stevens can convince them otherwise.
     
  27. Average Game James

    Average Game James Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    So when I read the comments I took them more as throwing some subtle shade at Tatum and Brown... basically saying they’ve been given more minutes despite bad play in many cases because they have the high lottery pick pedigree he doesn’t...
     
  28. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    I just want people to read that again, for how absolutely absurd it is. How many other people in the last 50 years, besides Bo Jackson, have made the top flight of two pro leagues?

    (and yes, this is partly just setting up pins for a Mookie gif... but I'm also curious if there are any others)
     
  29. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  30. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Brian Jordan, Deion Sander.
     
  31. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Next year you'll be able to add Tim Tebow, probably.

    Drew Henson is another. There are a bunch.
     
  32. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    And, granted, while it was longer than 50 years ago, there is the one athlete that is still the only one to make the Hall of Fame in his 2 respective professional sports:

    [​IMG]
     
  33. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Mark Hendrickson was the last MLB/NBA player but he went from basketball to baseball.
     
  34. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Isn't this almost a carbon copy of the Reggie Jackson situation? Westbrook tears his ACL in the 2013 playoffs, Jackson starts in his place and does well, which cements his value as a starting caliber PG. The next season (2013-2014), Jackson starts until Westbrook is ready to come back and starts grousing a bit once he returns to bench because he knows he's capable of starting and has free agency approaching.

    Then, towards the end of his RFA year in 2014-2015, he finally gets dealt in Feb 2015 to Detroit and lands his $80-90M contract that summer. Reggie Jackson was in a similar situation as Rozier, on a similar contender, and he wasn't happy and eventually got dealt. If I'm Rozier's camp, I'm looking at that situation as the blueprint. I agree that Rozier's value is pretty well-established in the league but there is an incremental benefit to him of being able to start before he hits RFA. Jimmy G was going to get paid this offseason regardless. But having that nice stretch to close out last year for the Niners certainly helped his value and probably made him more money. The sample size of him leading a team went from 2.5 games to like 9. Like Jimmy G, teams already have a pretty good sense what Rozier's ceiling is...but some may want more data. And starting gives them more data. There is obviously some associated risk with more PT but I'm sure he'll gladly accept it.

    My prediction here is that Ainge, Stevens, and Rozier all play nice in the sand box until February at which point Rozier, like Jackson a few years ago, gets dealt to the highest bidder.
     
  35. Royal Reader

    Royal Reader Member SoSH Member

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    So when are we changing the thread title to "Hoping for a Rozier situation" or even "Rozes smell like poo-oh?"
     
  36. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    OKC got a haul for Jackson. Kanter, Augustin, Singler, and Novak.
     
  37. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You are totally correct but there is something about a reference to a haul that includes Singler's name that makes me laugh. We discussed this last season here but Kyle Singler got paid ~ $25mm for his NBA career before OKC unceremoniously stretched his ass this past summer. That is pretty remarkable for a guy who was mostly around to wave towels from the bench.

    Back to Rozier, I think BSF is correct - if they deal him at all, it will be at the deadline.
     
  38. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Agreed.

    Celtics retain Rozier until Feb. because:
    1. Celtics want to keep him as long as possible as Kyrie season-ending injury insurance (and Jaylen, Smart, Hayward injury insurance)
    2. Another contender(s) experience injuries to a guard between now and then. Creating more bidders for Rozier.
    3. Tankers will not be interested in giving up assets for half a season of Rozier to increase their win total this season and hurt their draft status.
    4. Tankers, like Arizona, know they can try to sign him at seasons end (doubtful the Celtics match)
    5. Rozier's talent to thrive as a starter in the playoffs has been established. Most teams realize this season's downtick is due to minutes/situation and not Terry regressing. His value shouldn't be hurt with a downtick in PPG this season.
    6. He plays meaningful minutes to give Smart, Kyrie, Jaylen nights off until Feb.
    7. By Feb. the Celtics will start to shorten rotations for the playoffs so he won't be necessary.
     
  39. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Jim Thorpe. And there is some evidence out there he also played for a barnstorming basketball team.

    He made the first All-NFL team (it was APFA, but retroactively recognized as first All-NFL team). He also knocked in the winning run in the game where both starters threw no-hitters through 9 innings.
     
  40. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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  41. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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  42. Montana Fan

    Montana Fan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Dave Winfield. Drafted by 5 professional sports teams in 3 different sports.
     
  43. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Speaking of being gifted minutes for one reason or another. Ainge was handed a starting job as a 20-year old after putting up a ,553 OPS in AAA the year before because the Blue Jays knew if they didn't hand him the job he'd leave for the NBA.

    Great athlete for sure but let's not confuse him with a real baseball player. I mean he was like a Tebow in that sport.
     
  44. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Let's not forget our own Gene Conley back in the 60's(?). John Elway and Russell Wilson both played a couple of years in the minors as well. Brian Jordan may have been the most underrated of them all......he was REALLY good in the NFL and MLB.
     
  45. tbrown_01923

    tbrown_01923 Member SoSH Member

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  46. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    I’ve always wondered why Ainge was in the majors so young. If he was just Tim Tebow, why would Toronto have been so afraid of losing him? Maybe he played a great 2B?
     
  47. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    He was a nice prospect, they were awful, and the team had a very small window for Ainge to be successful or lose him to the NBA. Here's how it went down.....

    https://www.orlandosentinel.com/spo...-ainge-pat-williams-1223-20141222-story.html#
     

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