TamperGate: Woody's Petty Escapades
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Meh, bummed out that we didn't get a pick, but oh well.
I understand there is no consistency with this ruling, but let's not pretend that Woody's statement is the reason Revis went to the Jets.
Slap on the wrist, move along.
I understand there is no consistency with this ruling, but let's not pretend that Woody's statement is the reason Revis went to the Jets.
Slap on the wrist, move along.
Right. Don't make a big thing out of it and then don't follow up on it. It's open season for tampering now. Or is it? You never know with Roger. He's basically an NBA ref. He'll call the foul if the shot is missed. Maybe. If he feels like it.Ed Hillel said:
They filed a tampering charge after Kraft made certain remarks in the wake of the Revis signing. The rule as written is broad enough to encompass the remarks Kraft made, though the intent of the rule is not consistent with penalizing the Pats here.Marciano490 said:
Not directed to you at all, but some among us take umbrage at every fucking thing, cousins to MFY fans.
J.McG said:
Looks like that little weasel Manish already deleted the above tweet, so here's a screenshot:
He's such an infantile jackass.
The Patriots obviously shouldn't have been fined and it shouldn't even have been a thought in league circles. The Jets clearly tampered with another team's player and deserved discipline. I just wish they had given the Pats a draft pick.
Indefensible on the language of the rule and precedent, but of course also totally unsurprising outcome.
That decision is a big FU from the league to the Patriots. They clearly met the draft pick standard from previous cases.
Isn't $100K a reasonable price to pay to tamper with a player you want to sign? Hell, it's a bargain. If that's the cost of doing business, I hope the Patriots do it more often.
If Kraft thinks saying that he'd have signed a player to his current contract will help him obtain the player in free agency he should knock himself out and write those $100K checks.
Im thinking its not going to do much unless its backed up with $40MM of guaranteed money.
Im thinking its not going to do much unless its backed up with $40MM of guaranteed money.
It does send a bad message to teams that you can tamper and get away relatively scot free. It should have been much tougher. Hell, the Patriots were fined $500,000 and docked a 1st round pick for videotaping signals. Is what the Jets that far away from the scope of what the Patriots did?Corsi said:
At $100K they might as well do away with the tampering rules, which would be fine by me since they are dumb anyway. But clearly there should have been some draft compensation in the range of a 5th round pick based on prior precedent.
It is reasons like this why we are "paranoid" about what Goodell might do about Deflategate - there is no consistency. We aren't creating some conspiracy theory in our heads, I think we have legit reason to worry.
Edit: 2nd part directed at MDL's post from the Deflategate thread
It is reasons like this why we are "paranoid" about what Goodell might do about Deflategate - there is no consistency. We aren't creating some conspiracy theory in our heads, I think we have legit reason to worry.
Edit: 2nd part directed at MDL's post from the Deflategate thread
Jesus.
Look, the punishment fits the crime. It's certainly not consistent with previous punishments for tampering, but two wrongs don't make a right. What Woody did was marginal. He commented on a player, he shouldn't have, and he was fined.
Time to move along.
Look, the punishment fits the crime. It's certainly not consistent with previous punishments for tampering, but two wrongs don't make a right. What Woody did was marginal. He commented on a player, he shouldn't have, and he was fined.
Time to move along.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I don't understand your "two wrongs don't make a right" comment. If they are going to have rules against tampering, shouldn't those rules matter? I'm totally in favor of eliminating the rule, but as long as it exists, it has to be adhered to. Otherwise what is the point?
BigSoxFan said:
In a petty way I agree but really I want the Pats focused on scouting and winning next year, and even though most all of the time in these kinds of things is time spent by lawyers and others who aren't involved in scouting, I do think they are distractions.
Pats were right to file, as it was an obvious and clear violation of the rules. I believe their real goal was to raise the risk for the Jets of signing Revis, and the Jets correctly decided that Goodell would ignore the rule and precedent (or, arguably, that the precedent suggested something low enough to be worth it for them). I don't blame Pats or Jets for acting in clear self-interest here.
Now it is time to go back to what the Pats tend to always win at vs the Jets: building a roster and preparing to play actual football games
Kool Aid time. Obviously, with Roger's knowledge that the Patriots are about to not be punished for Deflategate, he didn't want to look too slanted towards the Pats to the public. Hence, the slap on the wrist.
Seems obvious. Right?
Seems obvious. Right?
Sounds like the investigation didn't turn up evidence of direct contact between the Jets and Revis or his agent. Without that, a large fine is reasonable.
tims4wins said:
The Lions having to trade a pick for making an innocuous comment ("[Kansas City] keeps wanting to dump their players. I would like to be there to catch a lot of them, because I know a couple of those guys.”) was stupid. The Jets having to do it because Woody made an equally innocuous statement ("Darrelle is a great player, and if I thought I could have gotten Darrelle for [what the Patriots paid], I probably would’ve taken him") would have been equally as stupid.
Just because the league over-penalized on the first ruling doesn't mean they have to continue to do so later down the line. The crime fits the punishment. If Woody came out and said, "We're going to actively pursue player X when he's a free agent. If he was smart, he'd hit free agency before re-signing any contract." then, sure, let's trade some big boy draft picks. For what Woody did, I'm ok with a slap on the wrist. I think the league actually got this one right.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Ok, that is fair - in a nutshell, you don't think tampering in the form of innocuous comments should result in a draft pick. But just to make sure I understand your position, you do think draft pick forfeiture would be warranted in certain instances, right? E.g., if a player's agent was found to be in contact with another team while the player was still under contract, or something of that nature?
tims4wins said:
I edited my above post and touch on that topic.
Yes, I think it certainly is warranted in the right situation.
It wasn't just a comment.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/02/nfl-lions-chiefs-tampering-draft-picks/1#.VT_IY7M5CJA
Seems pretty clear that the NFL is more concerned with direct contact than they are with innocuous comments in the media. The greater penalty reflects that, and it should. A stupid comment in an interview is tampering, but you know exactly what was said and can evaluate the impact. Direct contact likely involves actual negotiations/promises and is much worse.
From your lips to God's ear.Ed Hillel said:
This extract from today's interview didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy:
“I do think it [the Wells report] will be soon,” Goodell reiterated. But “we have a responsibility to the 32 teams, not just the one team, to 32 teams, and our fans, and the general public here, to make sure things we’re done fairly.”
This isn't just chatter. We're at the point where every word is parsed out after considerable forethought. A seemingly harmless comment may well be freighted with secondary meaning. He's punished the NYJs for what to NEP haters seems like an innocent comment. It's equally likely that something is coming down on the NEPs. Otherwise, it really would look like he was letting them off the hook for a problem that arose on their watch, whatever actually happened. Think about if that would look 'fair' to everyone south of Hartford.
I only hope it's just money.
RedOctober3829 said:
This type of "tampering" through the press has zero affect on where players sign. This is about protecting the image of a league playing by the rules. It is not about the league actually playing by the rules. There is zero doubt in my mind that GMs, Owners, Agents, Players are constantly talking about contracts and player movement all the time about all players.
The "tampering" rules exist so that the league, union, players can sit all high and mighty and say "look at us, this is a league of rules, competition is fair, everyone is in line". It's also complete bullshit. I have no idea why you and other people get so worked up about tampering and comments like this made through the media. Do you really think they have an outcome on player movement? Do you really think there aren't thousands of phone calls, hallway conversations, dinner, social interactions that would be against the tampering rules that we will never find out about?
This rules are a sham, the enforcement is a sham. I don't get why this is even a thing.
It's a $100k more than I expected. I thought Goodell would declare the Pats and Jets' conduct a wash.
In the real world, tampering goes on every day in all of sports if Theo Epstein is to be believed. I may have mentioned this before in this thread or on SoSH, but I sat next to Theo at an American Express dinner years ago and he laughed about tampering when I asked about it. He said that teams routinely convey messages to players through intermediaries, and while some get caught, it's pretty constant.
Given that reality and the vagueness in the language and example in the rule, and the ongoing Jets-Pats border wars, I'm surprised that Woody even had to write a check. I thought Roger would say declare a pox on both of their houses.
Not that I didn't opportunistically hope that the Pats would get a draft pick out of those monkeys.
In the real world, tampering goes on every day in all of sports if Theo Epstein is to be believed. I may have mentioned this before in this thread or on SoSH, but I sat next to Theo at an American Express dinner years ago and he laughed about tampering when I asked about it. He said that teams routinely convey messages to players through intermediaries, and while some get caught, it's pretty constant.
Given that reality and the vagueness in the language and example in the rule, and the ongoing Jets-Pats border wars, I'm surprised that Woody even had to write a check. I thought Roger would say declare a pox on both of their houses.
Not that I didn't opportunistically hope that the Pats would get a draft pick out of those monkeys.
snowmanny said:
In the public mind, when losers cheat, it's just pathetic. When winners cheat, it's evil.