Am I missing something? I don't see any pic or video or link...I won't tell you which guy is mine. Dirty play or not?
MaybeI won't tell you which guy is mine. Dirty play or not?
Because he's the coach of one of the teams and is looking to see what neutral observers think of a play that apparently caused some issues.May I ask why this question is being posed?
It's a bit reckless for sure. But I find it to be one of those instinct plays that isn't really premeditated.The issue at hand is pushing a guy in the air. The idea being playing physical is fine, but pushing a guy while he is the air is a no no, beyond the rules. The result was pretty minimal other than the no call, but calls get missed.
Yeah I'd call that shove by the center in white on the drive there to be a shooting foul. For one thing, it cleared him out of being able to come back and contest the subsequent rebound, not that the blue player hustled back.I didn't see anything that I'd call dirty. I'm watching on a phone, so that could be part of it. Saw some contact, but nothing egregious.
Edit: I think that a foul should have been called though
Yeah...it's right on the line because he was in the air, but luckily he didn't shove that hard.The issue at hand is pushing a guy in the air. The idea being playing physical is fine, but pushing a guy while he is the air is a no no, beyond the rules. The result was pretty minimal other than the no call, but calls get missed.
I think this sums it up well. Not cool, but unless there's more to the situation I don't think it's dirty.I'd call it a foul, and a reckless play. But not a dirty one.
definitely a foul.
The defender extended his arm on the shove, which is careless and I could see a technical foul being applied to dissuade him from doing it in the future.
both these. I can't imagine that it is dirty it is so soft, its hard to read malicous intentYeah, I wouldn't call it dirty. I'd call it chippy. It seemed kind of half-hearted. If the defender had put his full weight into it then the shooter would have ended up face-planting in the wall underneath the basket. But he didn't.
I had to watch it like 10 times to be confident that's what Reggie was probably talking about.Man, took me this thread to even find out what was dirty. Definitely not dirty. Not cool to shove the guy in the air and it should be a foul, but that wasn't dirty. It was a cozy nudge.
Yeah, and the fact that he was tickling the balls was particularly egregious.I thought the tickle after the defensive rebound was inappropriate
Haha. I used these same player comparisons. The guesses were right, my guy is in blue. I have spoken to him about becoming current Taum, better at getting to the rim and not angling away from the rim allowing the ref to not call it, like rookie JT. The kid in question did injure a kid of mine on a similar play, except from behind, so I am not impartial. Also I played in the 80s and lots of contact was the norm, but any pushing in the air was Stan Jonathon time. Part of that was due to the congestion and a guy shoved in the air usually landed on somebody else hurting himself or both. We play Fiba rules and sadly handchecking is not a forbidden as in the USA. I much prefer the American high school reffing where any hands on the hips gets a whistle.After the defensive Center (#15 in White) collects the rebound, he shows #11 his elbows and then clears him out with his left arm when he dribbles up court prior to his pass to #6.
clearly #15 is the Bill Laimbeer of the Centennial Charger Charity Classic
and #11 is the Jayson Tatum, not getting the obvious call at the rim
I'm glad you saw my humor (Laimbeer). I realize you're close to it since its one of your "kids", so I'm glad I didn't offend.Haha. I used these same player comparisons. The guesses were right, my guy is in blue. I have spoken to him about becoming current Taum, better at getting to the rim and not angling away from the rim allowing the ref to not call it, like rookie JT. The kid in question did injure a kid of mine on a similar play, except from behind, so I am not impartial. Also I played in the 80s and lots of contact was the norm, but any pushing in the air was Stan Jonathon time. Part of that was due to the congestion and a guy shoved in the air usually landed on somebody else hurting himself or both. We play Fiba rules and sadly handchecking is not a forbidden as in the USA. I much prefer the American high school reffing where any hands on the hips gets a whistle.
Holy crap, I loved Stan Jonathan.but any pushing in the air was Stan Jonathon time.
Fighting in the NBA was once extremely common; it really was not that different than hockey in the sense that a fight could break out at any time between two players and it wasn't unusual for the game to just resume later with both players still playing. In the Russell-era, everyone threw down from time to time and fights were not seen as that big of a deal. The league even embraced it as a marketing ploy, and during the 1970s glamorized the role of "the enforcer." In Sports Illustrated's 1977-78 season preview (which came out about 10 weeks before the Washington/Tomjanovich incident), the issue revolved around the league's premiere tough guys. I'll differ to Bill Simmons who wrote about it in his book.Spare a second to consider the impact on the development of the NBA if Kermit Washington had killed Rudy Tomjanovich with that punch, as was judged to have very nearly happened.
(longer retrospective if you care for it, but I don't get far beyond "his brain was leaking spinal fluid")
There is a camraderie that you see among NBA players today that I don't think existed even when I first started paying a little attention in the late 90s. The nutjob-level-aggressors like Artest are few and far between, real hard send-a-message fouls are so rare that watching old Celtics highlights feels like another sport, and tussling never gets beyond shoves. The extent to which they've all matured and set a far better example is dramatic.
I do think that in general players are more mature and businesslike in 2019 than they were even 20 years, and in the era of player movement someone is more likely to be your teammate in a few months than ever before, and teams don't stay around together for as long, which keeps bad blood from festering. I think over time a few key fights in NBA history have led to serious changes, both in how the league punished fighters and the attitude of the players. The Washington punch taught everyone that fighting was not just frivolous side-entertainment, someone could get really, really hurt. The Artest melee taught everyone that fighting and bad blood could have a tremendously negative impact on the public image of the league and its players.Fast-forward to October: Sports Illustrated revolves its NBA preview issue around “the Enforcers,” sticking Lucas’ menacing mug on the cover and glorifying physical players in a pictorial ominously titled “Nobody, but Nobody, Is Gonna Hurt My Teammates.” In retrospect, it’s an incredible piece to read; the magazine took intimidating-looking pictures of each enforcer like they were WWF wrestlers, with Kermit Washington (gulp) posing shirtless like a boxer. Each picture was accompanied with text to make these bruisers sound like a combination of Clint Eastwood and Charles Bronson. An example: “Kermit Washington, the 6′ 8″, 230-pound Laker strong man, is a nice quiet person who lifts weights and sometimes separates people’s heads from their shoulders. In one memorable game last November in Buffalo, Washington ended an elbow skirmish with John Shumate by dropping the 6′ 9″ forward with a flurry of hooks and haymakers. ‘Shumate came apart in sections,’ an eyewitness said.”Wow, punching people never sounded so cool! Since SI was the influential sports voice at the time— remember, we didn’t have ESPN, USA Today, cable or the Internet yet— the tone of that issue coupled with kudos given to Murphy and Lucas the previous season may have inspired the violent incidents that followed. Lucas was a valuable player who wasn’t good enough to command an SI cover unless it was for something else … you know, like beating the shit out of someone. Was it okay to punch other players in the face? According to Sports Illustrated, actually, it was. As long as you had a good reason.Fast-forward to opening night: Kent Benson sneaks a cheap elbow into Kareem’s stomach, doubling Kareem over and sending him wobbling away from the play in obvious pain. An enraged Kareem regroups and charges Benson from behind, sucker-punching him and breaking his jaw. Unlike other ugly NBA events from the past, this one had a black-guy-decking-a-white-guy clip playing on every local newscast around the country, with the black guy doubling as the league’s signature player of the seventies. Uh-oh. The league decides against suspending Kareem, deeming it punishment enough that he’s missing two months with a broken hand from the punch.Fast-forward to December: Kermit gets belted by Houston’s Kevin Kunnert after a free throw and they start fighting. Kareem jumps in to hold Kunnert back, Kermit nails Kunnert (who slumps over holding his face), then Kermit whirls around, sees Rudy Tomjanovich running toward him and throws what Lakers assistant Jack McKinney later called “the greatest punch in the history of mankind,” breaking Rudy’s face on impact and his skull after it slammed off the floor. Kareem later described the punch as sounding like somebody had dropped a melon onto a concrete floor. Rudy rolled over, grabbed his face, kicked his legs and bled all over the court as everyone watched in horror. The final damage: two weeks in intensive care, a broken jaw, a broken nose, a fractured face and a skull cracked so badly that Rudy could taste spinal fluid dripping into his mouth.Four forces were working against Kermit other than, you know, the fact he nearly killed another player. With Kareem’s haymaker happening two months earlier, the combination of those punches spawned dueling epidemics of “NBA Violence Is Out of Control!” headlines and editorials (with everyone forgetting that SI had glorified that same violence ten weeks earlier) and “Why do I want to follow a league that allows black guys to keep kicking the crap out of white guys when I’m a white guy?” doubts (the underlying concern that nobody mentioned out loud unless you were sitting in the clubhouse of a country club, as well as the subplot that scared the living shit out of CBS and the owners). Second, the only existing replay made Kermit seem like an unprovoked madman out for white blood, but the cameras missed Kunnert’s initial elbow and the rest of their fight, catching the action only after Kunnert was sinking into Kareem’s arms and Rudy was running at Kermit. Third, Saturday Night Live made light of the incident on “Weekend Update,” showing the punch over and over again for a gag and giving it new life. And fourth, with TV ratings faltering, attendance dropping and the league battling the “too many white fans, too many black players” issue, really, you couldn’t have asked for worse timing. It was a best/ worst extreme— the most destructive punch ever thrown on a basketball court, the perfect specimen to throw such a punch, the worst possible result, the worst possible timing (CBS’ contract was up after the season) and the worst possible color combination (a black guy decking a white guy). Kermit was suspended for sixty days without pay— no hearing, no appeal, nothing— losing nearly $54,000 in salary and becoming Public Enemy No. 1. (This went well beyond a few death threats. After Kermit returned from the suspension, police advised him against ordering hotel room service because they worried someone would poison him.) And Rudy eventually sued the league for $3 million, with his laywers portraying Kermit as a vicious Rottweiler who had been allowed off his leash by neglectful owners. Nothing good came from this incident. Nothing.