Albert Pujols?That's fair. Has there ever been another player who was only good while with one team, no matter how many times he came and went?
Albert Pujols?That's fair. Has there ever been another player who was only good while with one team, no matter how many times he came and went?
Mark Prior and Kerry Wood nod in agreement, while cursing Dusty Baker's future grave.Never an MVP, but I think Robbie Cano might fit this bill.
If I may go in a brief tangent: what Bochy did to those Giants' starters was pretty rough.
Lincecum was dominant from ages 23-27, then was never the same.
Matt Cain was dominant from ages 21-27, then was never the same.
MadBum was dominant from ages 21-26, spent two years fighting injury, had one last solid season a 29 and has never been the same.
Bochy let those guys pitch their way through a ton of high-leverage innings and they paid the price.
But flags fly forever...
Hardly a "fade". He went away with a BANGThurman Munson.
46.1 career WAR through his age 32 season and then, poof... nothing.
Man, it's easy to forgot how good Mo was during his 4-year peak with the Sox. He was pretty good with the Angels for his two years there but his freak injury with the Mets really ended him.Mo Vaughn was the first guy that came to mind
He played through back, neck and rib injuries that caused him serious pain after his career was done.Rich Gedman suddenly stopped being able to hit after '86. My dad always blamed Hriniak.
After 14 good seasons, yes, one bad one on the way outJim Rice
Yeah, he burned out, which is better than to fade away.Hardly a "fade". He went away with a BANG
This was the first player that came to mind. Good call.Dale Murphy? He was a back-to-back MVP in 1982 and 1983, was in the top ten in 1984 and 1985, and 11th in 1987. Pretty consistently put up 140-150 OPS+ numbers while playing center field and winning five straight gold gloves. Seemed like a certain Hall of Famer at that point. From 1988 onwards, he was basically +/- 100 OPS+ until he finally broke down for good in 1992/93.
Dale Murphy comes to mind immediately when thinking of cautionary tales for Mike Trout. Trout’s peak has been a bit better and started earlier (in part because the Braves messed around with Murphy at C for a while), but still.This was the first player that came to mind. Good call.
[Cliff Clavin] Did someone mention Johan Santana? It's a little known fact that Theo......[/Cliff Clavin]First guy I thought of was Johan Santana.
FWIW, Murphy had 46.5 career bWAR in 8000 ABs, Trout is at 81.5 in 5000 career ABs.Dale Murphy comes to mind immediately when thinking of cautionary tales for Mike Trout. Trout’s peak has been a bit better and started earlier (in part because the Braves messed around with Murphy at C for a while), but still.
Ryan Howard was the first guy I immediately thought of as well.Chris Davis and Ryan Howard were the first two I thought of
Worth noting that he still holds the all-time record for SO/9.Chris Sale:
Ages 21-29: 103-62, 2.89 ERA, 144 ERA+, in an average of 165 IP per season.
Ages 30-33: 11-13, 4.09 ERA, 117 ERA+ in an average of 65 IP per season.
Dick Radatz, to a T.Also - the thread is maybe more "Shooting Stars who Burned Bright and then Flamed/Faded Out" (to the point where they were completely out of the league).
Most likely.Aren't the players who do not 'fade away' the exception?
Steve Lyons was equally terrible with the Sox all 4 times he came and went.That's fair. Has there ever been another player who was only good while with one team, no matter how many times he came and went?
I feel like Scott Rolen (who was sort of a Philly version of Nomar) also fits in this category, except that he was actually still a (mostly) pretty good player with the Cardinals and Reds, but nobody seems to remember that part of his career.Most likely.
I think in this case McCutchen is currently the shining example. He's a guy who was big star within the baseball world 6-7 years ago. Since then he's spent several years kickin' around a few clubs, doing OK, but often generating reactions of "oh *that's* where Andrew McCutchen plays now!" when one sees him in the lineup.
Sadly, Nomar was the poster child for this dynamic a dozen or so years ago.
That's a good one as well.I feel like Scott Rolen (who was sort of a Philly version of Nomar) also fits in this category, except that he was actually still a (mostly) pretty good player with the Cardinals and Reds, but nobody seems to remember that part of his career.
In Howard Bryant's bio of Rickey Henderson, he talks about the trade that brought Sierra to the A's. Basically he said by the time he got to Oakland, Sierra felt that he had to be a strong power hitter, bulked up and never really adjusted to where he was when he first came up with the Rangers. The implication is that if he stayed lean and trim, he could've been an even bigger star.Ruben Sierra was runner-up for MVP at age 23 and a 4-time All-Star in his twenties. He only once topped 350 at-bats after the age of 30, but managed to stick around until he was 40.
I was going to say Evan Longoria, but his cliff wasn’t as sharp as I recalled, looking at the numbers. Think he fits better in this category.I feel like Scott Rolen (who was sort of a Philly version of Nomar) also fits in this category, except that he was actually still a (mostly) pretty good player with the Cardinals and Reds, but nobody seems to remember that part of his career.
Right. The spirit of the thread is more about superstars who became journeymen, not sudden collapses or retirements. Guys like Rickey and Manny were all time greats, but continued to play organized baseball until someone ripped the uniforms off their backs. Toward the end, you were always surprised to see where they'd pop up. Someone like Miggy Cabrera doesn't count since he didn't jump from place to place looking for a job.Aren't the players who do not 'fade away' the exception?
Wow, that's pretty remarkable. What's crazy about that 6-year stint was how *terrible* he was for long stretches. It's more unbelievable that Cleveland kept him on the roster until he was 43.I submit Jason Giambi. He left the Yankees after a 32 homer, 128 OPS+ season, then played SIX more seasons in obscurity with Colorado and Cleveland as a pinch hitter/part time DH.
Wow, I have zero memory of him on the Rockies and Indians. I thought he ended his career in Oakland.I submit Jason Giambi. He left the Yankees after a 32 homer, 128 OPS+ season, then played SIX more seasons in obscurity with Colorado and Cleveland as a pinch hitter/part time DH.
I definitely hear what you're saying, but I have trouble believing that someone who played for 21 seasons could have faded away. I guess there are many definitions of what fits the criteria.Right. The spirit of the thread is more about superstars who became journeymen, not sudden collapses or retirements. Guys like Rickey and Manny were all time greats, but continued to play organized baseball until someone ripped the uniforms off their backs. Toward the end, you were always surprised to see where they'd pop up. Someone like Miggy Cabrera doesn't count since he didn't jump from place to place looking for a job.
Eddie Murray is another good one. Yes, he's in the Hall of Fame, but he also played for 5 teams over the last 6 years of his career.
I thought of Cano too - did you know he had a higher OPS+ in Seattle than with the MFY? Location really does matter as he has mostly been irrelevant since leaving the Bronx, even though he’s remained a very good hitter.Never an MVP, but I think Robbie Cano might fit this bill.
If I may go in a brief tangent: what Bochy did to those Giants' starters was pretty rough.
Lincecum was dominant from ages 23-27, then was never the same.
Matt Cain was dominant from ages 21-27, then was never the same.
MadBum was dominant from ages 21-26, spent two years fighting injury, had one last solid season a 29 and has never been the same.
Bochy let those guys pitch their way through a ton of high-leverage innings and they paid the price.
But flags fly forever...