What if they name ARod the new manager?
Can't be worse than Bobby Valentine.
What if they name ARod the new manager?
Amen. They've been incredible.Exactly. This ownership can do whatever they want and I am fine with it
We survived, Valentine, we can survive Slappy. I'd actually rather enjoy watching people's heads explode.What if they name ARod the new manager?
Yeah, it’s not 1960 anymore. Sports teams are a combination of profit and devotion to fans. Henry does a damn good job of straddling that line.Like I said as a reply to the previous post: I’m okay with getting under the luxury tax!and then signing him. And at that point what’s the difference between $32 and $38 AAV for a guy consistently posting >5 WAR even in a down year?
And I feel like you missed my point re: Henry. Sports teams didn’t used to be a thing you bought and sold to make money. Or to make a profit off every year. They were like yachts, that you can brag about owning and give you something to sink money (you don’t need) into.
Henry’s asset has increased by $2.42b since he bought it (2.8b estimated worth and paid $0.38b). Why does he need to keep making MORE money off the investment??? He could easily pay Mookie $400m and we make excuses about him being a “smart businessman” as if the Sox aren’t a top-3 grossing franchise. Then you can still “team build” around him.
I’m inclined to think that if a version of this were really on the table - let's say Gray/Ruiz/Downs for argument's sake - Bloom would've taken it by now.2 NL execs last night asked if Boston trades Betts, would they be better off doing a straight prospect swap w/ LAD(3-4 of Verdugo, Ruiz, Downs, Busch, Gray, Gonsolin, Kasowski) and working out Price deal w/ another team(Angels?), relieve $ and take a lesser prospect(Thaiss?).
- @pgammo, 6:03 am, 1/25/20
Yeah, of course, Gammons is barely in touch with reality as is too often the case these days (sorry Peter, you were the best back in the day).I’m inclined to think that if a version of this were really on the table - let's say Gray/Ruiz/Downs for argument's sake - Bloom would've taken it by now.
That "sloppiness" has been with the approval of, and at times the urging of, the ownership.Above all, I just don’t get the bitching about Henry. He’s not perfect, but he’s been a fantastic owner. Sox have consistently had extremely high payrolls, so much so I think it’s invited sloppiness by our GMs from time to time.
After living from the 60’s to the 90’s, I’m extremely grateful to this ownership for managing the Sox as a powerful franchise. If we should wait a few years for another championship, it’s OK for me. Giving Betts all the money he will demand could derail things.5 division titles, 10 playoff appearances, and 4 world series championships ought to engender you to your fan base a little. Especially one that went 86 years without a championship.
I'm not sure if this is the guy you were referring to but Mike Bodick was traded by Baltimore to the Mets at the 2000 trade deadline. The Mets needed a shortstop after Rey Ordonez was injured. The Os got Melvin Mora in return who was fairly useful for a few years. Burdick then immediately went back to the Os during free agency in the winter of 2000.What are the chances of this actually happening? In the free agent era, it's happened three (?) times. Once with Chapman, once with Rick Aguilera and the other one escapes me. This idea that the Sox will trade Mookie away and then swoop in and sign him (this worked awesome the last time they did this, see Lester, Jon) is incredibly optimistic. If it did happen this way, I would be overjoyed. But it won't. So maybe we have dueling lazy narratives.
Before the 2019 season, the Red Sox were valued at $3.2 billion, which represented a 742% increase over the $380 million purchase price paid by John Henry and his partners in 2002.How much money have they made off the Red Sox? Honest question, if anyone has an idea.
Why @nattysez do you keep on bringing up the Lester contract? The two situations could not be more different. In this case, the Red Sox continue to try to make fair offers to Mookie. He refuses them which is his right. The Red Sox did not make a fair offer to Jon Lester which caused him to be upset. So far, Mookie is not upset with the Red Sox just determined to reach free agency. If the Red Sox had made a fair offer to Lester, he might have re signed. Apples and oranges situationsNot sure what you mean.....They made Lester an under valued offer that upset him. The offers they have been rumored to have made Mookie seem to be reasonably fair, especially to open negotiations.
Which ignores the debt they assumed and the ballpark, which is part of current valuation. They paid $700M.Before the 2019 season, the Red Sox were valued at $3.2 billion, which represented a 742% increase over the $380 million purchase price paid by John Henry and his partners in 2002.
Which is a hair under a billion taking inflation into account.Which ignores the debt they assumed and the ballpark, which is part of current valuation. They paid $700M.
Yeah, it’s not 1960 anymore. Sports teams are a combination of profit and devotion to fans. Henry does a damn good job of straddling that line.
Why does he ‘need’ to make more money? He didn’t buy the park (and dump millions into it) and the team because he’s a Sox fan. Nor the soccer team he owns. It’s an investment. One he’s poured a shit ton of money into and wok four titles since he bought it.
And again, it’s not just about money. Betts is going to market one way or the other unless they do something stupid. Henry’s job is to make sure they don’t do stupid shit and one could argue they’ve already allowed some stupid contracts. Plenty, in fact.
But, it's not a one-off just signing Betts. What happens when Devers is looking to be paid and he's sitting next to a dude with a $400 million contract? How does Xander feel about his deal?Yeah, I will say as someone with many Mets fan friends, that they'd love to have Henry as an owner. I just don't have much sympathy for someone not reinvesting in a team that has made him so much (even if it goes both ways with us admittedly having a lot of success with him at the helm).
Still, if someone is going to pay Betts $350-400m, they must think he's worth it. And unless it's the LAD or NYY, no team has a bigger payroll to do it with. So I'm not sure I buy any excuse about the team being better without signing Betts. I don't find any player selfish either for getting their market rate, especially since the MLBPA largely ensures that.
So this today as well: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-red-sox-shouldnt-trade-mookie-betts/, so it's not even that obvious it's worth trading him. Win totals seem optimistic for the Sox, but it's not crazy to think this team has a run in them...
Saying he hasn’t reinvested in the franchise is laughable. Just stop.Yeah, I will say as someone with many Mets fan friends, that they'd love to have Henry as an owner. I just don't have much sympathy for someone not reinvesting in a team that has made him so much (even if it goes both ways with us admittedly having a lot of success with him at the helm).
Still, if someone is going to pay Betts $350-400m, they must think he's worth it. And unless it's the LAD or NYY, no team has a bigger payroll to do it with. So I'm not sure I buy any excuse about the team being better without signing Betts. I don't find any player selfish either for getting their market rate, especially since the MLBPA largely ensures that.
So this today as well: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-red-sox-shouldnt-trade-mookie-betts/, so it's not even that obvious it's worth trading him. Win totals seem optimistic for the Sox, but it's not crazy to think this team has a run in them...
Yep, hard to argue that an owner who's team payroll is consistently at or near the top of the league doesn't reinvest in his team. Also consider the luxury tax paid because of that and the money that has been sunk into ballpark renovations.Saying he hasn’t reinvested in the franchise is laughable. Just stop.
Based on everything that Betts and his camp have said so far, he seems intent on getting to free agency. He wants all 30 teams bidding on him. I don’t believe that getting a list of preferred teams from his agent (even if he would provide one) would help improve the prospect package that the Red Sox would receive because the Betts camp would probably make it very clear that he’s going to free agency, and all 30 teams have a shot.another idea ask bettis agents where does he want to go betts to LA couild work or Wash because if u can't beat the yankees why not help the team that couild assuming the yankees are the AL Fav a Mookie trade to LA or Wash couild stop the yankees from winning it all
Yep, hard to argue that an owner who's team payroll is consistently at or near the top of the league doesn't reinvest in his team. Also consider the luxury tax paid because of that and the money that has been sunk into ballpark renovations.
It's nothing to do with being pro or anti eat the rich. We're far from being (fill in the blank) who is satisfied to turn a nice profit while NOT reinvesting in their teams. If you think the current ownership group should spend more money that's an argument you can make. If you think they haven't invested wisely recently and are trying to reset then sure, i'll listen. But accusing them of not reinvesting in the team doesn't cut it. .This is a strange counterargument since the Sox are the 3rd biggest market with the 2nd most revenue/fan (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/04/10/baseball-team-values-2019-yankees-lead-league-at-46-billion/#316883469b2e) so of course they're consistently at or near the top. Unless we know how well any of these top teams balance their books I don't see any obvious reason Henry is better (or worse) than the other top-5 owners. He might have a 0.0 VORO!
Anyway I appreciate the discussion, even if I'm obviously more 'eat the rich' than y'all *
*Yes, I realize Mookie would become rich, but at least we know his VORP
But the team’s willingness to consider dealing the four-time All-Star and 2018 A.L. MVP appears serious.
Los Angeles features the financial and roster flexibility to entertain numerous trade scenarios with the Sox. The Dodgers could take Betts straight up in a deal that would include major league talent (likely starting with an everyday outfielder given that Betts would give L.A. surplus depth) along with multiple prospects.
But while San Diego wants to protect its top prospects – including lefthander MacKenzie Gore, righthander Luis Patino, shortstop C.J. Abrams, and outfielder Taylor Trammell – its farm system and big league roster are deep enough to keep them engaged with the Red Sox.
The Padres could offer a major league-ready outfielder (perhaps Trent Grisham, a 2015 first-rounder who had a breakout 2019 season in Milwaukee’s system before reaching the big leagues) and pitcher (candidates might include righties Michel Baez and Cal Quantrill as well as lefty Joey Lucchesi).
Well certainly if they're going to trade Betts, a bidding war is what we want in order to maximize the possible return. I still hate the idea but, if it's inevitable, may as well get it over with with the best return they can.A bidding war would be cool
I know. I'm serious.Well certainly if they're going to trade Betts, a bidding war is what we want in order to maximize the possible return. I still hate the idea but, if it's inevitable, may as well get it over with with the best return they can.
I know you are. I'm totally agreeing with you.I know. I'm serious.
I suspect the Padres fold quickly. They are not in LA's class, even with Mookie. They'd be better off saving their powder.A bidding war would be cool
I've said it before and I'll say it again, overestimate Preller at your own peril. He has a lot of ammo. limited competence, and a fan base that wants a splash.I suspect the Padres fold quickly. They are not in LA's class, even with Mookie. They'd be better off saving their powder.
I'm not following. Did you mean "underestimate?"I've said it before and I'll say it again, overestimate Preller at your own peril. He has a lot of ammo. limited competence, and a fan base that wants a splash.
Music to my ears. The Dodgers are outraged at having two WS "stolen" from them and are therefore really motivated. If Preller is too, this could work out.I've said it before and I'll say it again, overestimate Preller at your own peril. He has a lot of ammo. limited competence, and a fan base that wants a splash.
What I mean is that he's terrible.I'm not following. Did you mean "underestimate?"
Right. But the Dodgers don’t have to send Myers back and aren’t keeping their top 5 prospects off limits (presumably). Bloom also has a working history with Friedman. If the Dodgers flex their muscles they will win out, or Preller will have to crack and give up someone really valuable.I've said it before and I'll say it again, overestimate Preller at your own peril. He has a lot of ammo. limited competence, and a fan base that wants a splash.
I think we end up with a better return than most are expecting, especially when you factor in the savings.I've said it before and I'll say it again, overestimate Preller at your own peril. He has a lot of ammo. limited competence, and a fan base that wants a splash.
I'm right there with youI understand that I'm on a sparsely populated island with this, but I'm actually sort of excited by this. I've loved watching Mookie play for the Sox, but I have no interest in paying him $350+ million.
I know that many here have doubted that the Sox could extract real value for him, but I've never been convinced of that. If Bloom can get a good package for him, I'm ready for the next chapter.
You're not. I don't want him back at 10/300. No player is worth that commitment and it really hinders roster construction allotting 20% of the salary cap to one player. It's not the NBA.I understand that I'm on a sparsely populated island with this, but I'm actually sort of excited by this. I've loved watching Mookie play for the Sox, but I have no interest in paying him $350+ million.
I know that many here have doubted that the Sox could extract real value for him, but I've never been convinced of that. If Bloom can get a good package for him, I'm ready for the next chapter.
There is no reason to believe that Preller's initially stated position is anything he'll stick to.Right. But the Dodgers don’t have to send Myers back and aren’t keeping their top 5 prospects off limits (presumably). Bloom also has a working history with Friedman. If the Dodgers flex their muscles they will win out, or Preller will have to crack and give up someone really valuable.
I’m OK with Myers as a 1B placeholder if San Diego is paying his AAV and Boston can use that money to unload Price for an actual return. Or, alternatively, if the Padres fold and move players at the top of their system to get Boston to eat that $61 million.Right. But the Dodgers don’t have to send Myers back and aren’t keeping their top 5 prospects off limits (presumably). Bloom also has a working history with Friedman. If the Dodgers flex their muscles they will win out, or Preller will have to crack and give up someone really valuable.
i am full of compressed airYou can be Wilson
Not really ... easy to score off ofI don’t even know what a SP ho is, but that sounds AMAZING
And it helps that we won a ring with him.I understand that I'm on a sparsely populated island with this, but I'm actually sort of excited by this. I've loved watching Mookie play for the Sox, but I have no interest in paying him $350+ million.
I know that many here have doubted that the Sox could extract real value for him, but I've never been convinced of that. If Bloom can get a good package for him, I'm ready for the next chapter.
Absolutely. And I would have loved for him to have accepted 8/200 a couple years ago.And it helps that we won a ring with him.