Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

[BGrif21125]

I don't think Taylor's chin has every really been tested, maybe it's better than he seems to think it is.

Hopkins landed some big flush right hands on a tired Taylor in their first fight.
Granted, Hopkins has never been a big one-punch type of puncher.

The sad thing is, Taylor seems to have a lot of natural gifts.

This is why I still consider Taylor a favorite over Pavlik (although I can certainly see your logic in backing Pavlik). Maybe Taylor needs an opponent like Pavlik, who will force the fight into more of a brawl and away from a "thinking man's" type of fight. Maybe in a high-action fight, Taylor's athletic skills will show themselves. Maybe.

I can't help but root for Taylor to succeed. When he beat Hopkins, he seemed like just the type of guy that boxing needed. A young undisputed champ in a glamour division, from the U.S., with a good personality, etc. Who knows, maybe Pavlik will turn out to be that guy instead. I hope they settle it in the ring.

 

[dempsey6068]

This is all pretty funny to me. So Taylor looks average against Edouard, Hopkins twice, Wright, Ouma, then Spinks and people are selling him low. Meanwhile, Pavlik and Miranda, who have pretty much fought nobody but each other (Miranda did lose to Abraham, though more because he cost himself so many points) and suddenly they're the saviors of the division? People always used to pile on Roy Jones for never fighting anybody, and now here's a young champion fighting everyone of quality in his division, and people are upset he doesn't look great against other world champions? What's Manny's BA against Johann Santana. How many yards did the Bears D give up against the Colts?
Miranda is an average, at best fighter. He's got good power, but is far, far from being polished. He's got wide punches, can't fight backing up, has no lateral movement, little head movement, and doesn't really establish his jab. Great for Pavlik for beating him, it was a great fight, but that was his first big win, unless you count beating a 36 year old Bronco McKart. People say Taylor doesn't have a good chin? It was tested by Edouard who can punch. It was definitely tested by Hopkins, who by the way, knocked out De la Hoya with one punch. The Pavlik fight would be a good action fight, but really, how do you see Pavlik winning? By pushing JT back? Don't you think that Taylor would be able to adapt his style and that his superior strength, hand speed and skills would come to bear? The Calzaghe fight would worry me for Taylor, but not the Pavlik fight.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I can't help but root for Taylor to succeed. When he beat Hopkins, he seemed like just the type of guy that boxing needed. A young undisputed champ in a glamour division, from the U.S., with a good personality, etc. Who knows, maybe Pavlik will turn out to be that guy instead. I hope they settle it in the ring.

Apparently, Taylor and his promoter Lou DiBella are already lining up Taylor's next opponent -- Felix Trinidad.

I think that just about says it all with regard to Taylor. But just to underline the point, this passage from the above-linked article sums it up:

Many people believe Taylor has lost his interest in boxing, and is strictly in it for the money now. Money is what Tito brings to the table, and Taylor's people are clearing saying, "Show Me The Money!"

 

[BGrif21125]

Apparently, Taylor and his promoter Lou DiBella are already lining up Taylor's next opponent -- Felix Trinidad.

I think that just about says it all with regard to Taylor. But just to underline the point, this passage from the above-linked article sums it up:

Interesting, Taylor-Tito is certainly an unexpected turn.

I've believed for a while that the only fight that could bring Tito back is a mega-payday against Oscar. By all accounts, that rematch is also the one fight that Oscar really wants, in fact, he wanted that fight for this May, the Mayweather fight was plan B.

If Tito came back and won the middleweight crown, that would certainly help his bargaining position in a negotiation with Oscar.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Interesting, Taylor-Tito is certainly an unexpected turn.

I've believed for a while that the only fight that could bring Tito back is a mega-payday against Oscar. By all accounts, that rematch is also the one fight that Oscar really wants, in fact, he wanted that fight for this May, the Mayweather fight was plan B.

If Tito came back and won the middleweight crown, that would certainly help his bargaining position in a negotiation with Oscar.

Tito's had exactly two fights in the last five years, and in the second of those -- which itself was two years ago -- he was annihilated. He's a stationary target who will be covered with ring rust. But of course, he brings a huge Puerto Rican PPV audience. So Taylor sees it as an easy win for big money. Fine. If that's what he's all about, I don't begrudge him the opportunity to make some money (not that he hasn't already). But please stop calling yourself the "champ" if you're not willing to defend the title. I mean, it's this kind of crap that is exactly what boxing does NOT need right now.

And if Taylor loses to Trinidad, I hope he enjoys his $10 million paycheck because he'll go down as the biggest laughingstock in the history of boxing.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

Tito's had exactly two fights in the last five years, and in the second of those -- which itself was two years ago -- he was annihilated

I'd like to add that he is now 34 years old and is 8 years removed from his victory over Oscar.

I would pay $5 to watch this fight on PPV.

 

[BGrif21125]

Tito's had exactly two fights in the last five years, and in the second of those -- which itself was two years ago -- he was annihilated. He's a stationary target who will be covered with ring rust. But of course, he brings a huge Puerto Rican PPV audience. So Taylor sees it as an easy win for big money. Fine. If that's what he's all about, I don't begrudge him the opportunity to make some money (not that he hasn't already). But please stop calling yourself the "champ" if you're not willing to defend the title. I mean, it's this kind of crap that is exactly what boxing does NOT need right now.

And if Taylor loses to Trinidad, I hope he enjoys his $10 million paycheck because he'll go down as the biggest laughingstock in the history of boxing.

I agree, I don't think Tito would beat Taylor either. He's never beaten a quality middleweight, unless you consider William Joppy one of those.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Some intrigue in the Taylor camp. Looks like Emanuel Steward is on the way out, according to the New York Daily News. Steward (as he made clear in the corner) says he never would have let Taylor fight Spinks, but now some in Taylor's inner circle are claiming that Spinks was, in fact, Steward's hand-picked opponent.

My guess is, Taylor's people are trying to make Steward the fall guy for their man's lackluster performance, and/or Taylor himself has started to believe his own hype and, like Roy Jones Jr., basically thinks he should train himself and not have to listen to anyone. So they've started a little disinformation campaign to justify getting rid of Steward.

 

[BGrif21125]

Take any words from a promoter's mouth with a grain of salt, but according to Bob Arum, he's been assured by the WBC that Pavlik will become the #1 mandatory contender, and that Taylor will be stripped of his belt if he doesn't fight Pavlik next.

Also, (and this should come as no surprise) the rumblings out of the Mayweather camp are that he'll be fighting in November, with Mosley the most obvious potential opponent.

 

[dempsey6068]

Well, if Taylor eventually plans to fight Calzaghe, I guess he doesn't mind losing the Middleweight belt. I hear he walks around at over 200, so maybe it'd be easier to move up a weight class anyways. Fighting Tito would be lucrative, but I agree that it doesn't really do much to garner Taylor any esteem.

Mosley beats Mayweather.

 

[BGrif21125]

Mosley beats Mayweather.

I think Mosley can give Floyd a competitive fight, but I don't see how he beats him.
Mayweather is faster, younger, and Floyd can fight going forward or backward. Mosley can't win going backward.

Both were blessed with speed and athleticism. Mosley took his tools and turned them into a combination-punching based offensive style. Mayweather took his tools and used them to construct an inpenetrable defense.
Great defense always beats offense.

 

[dempsey6068]

It's true Mosley is much less effective going backwards. The Forest fights proved that. However, what's to say that Floyd will make him go backwards? Did he back Oscar up? I think Mosley learns from the De la Hoya fight. Seems to me that the way to beat Mayweather would be to try to get off a couple flashy combinations per round when Floyd is against the ropes, keep a steady jab out the rest of the time, and not stand in front of Floyd to get pot-shotted. I think Mosley's got enough had movement, as opposed to the more stationary DLH to make up the difference in points that Oscar lacked.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

It's true Mosley is much less effective going backwards. The Forest fights proved that. However, what's to say that Floyd will make him go backwards? Did he back Oscar up? I think Mosley learns from the De la Hoya fight. Seems to me that the way to beat Mayweather would be to try to get off a couple flashy combinations per round when Floyd is against the ropes, keep a steady jab out the rest of the time, and not stand in front of Floyd to get pot-shotted. I think Mosley's got enough had movement, as opposed to the more stationary DLH to make up the difference in points that Oscar lacked.

I have to agree with this. Mosley also has solid punching power, hand speed that may be the equal of Floyd's and most important, the mentality of a professional fighter. Zab Judah is the only guy Floyd has ever fought who can match his speed and athleticism, but Floyd knew going into that fight that Zab would break mentally. Nonetheless, Judah gave him hell for four rounds before he essentially got discouraged and gave up. Mosley's not going to give up. He'll give Floyd for 12 rounds what Judah gave him for four. I think it would be a very close and competitive fight that right now, I'd rate a toss-up. It would also make for the most watchable fight Mayweather has had at 140 and over. I hope this one gets made. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[BGrif21125]

One thing about Zab though that hasn't been mentioned..... he's also a southpaw, which Mosley isn't. Zab's speed and athleticism gave Floyd problems for sure, but it also took Floyd a few rounds to crack the code, so to speak, of Zab's left-handed style.

Zab is a full-blown headcase, but he didn't just stop trying after 4 rounds. He cracked mentally after the 5th round, because in the 5th Floyd finally realized that the right lead would work better than the left hook, and he started hitting Zab repeatedly.

This isn't the 29 year old Mosley we're talking about, who was in the top 2 PFP in the world. This is a 35 year old Shane who has done nothing over the past 6 years except beat the mummified remains of Fernando Vargas, get a highly questionable win over Oscar, and beat a one-handed Luis Collazo.

I think Shane can give Floyd more problems style-wise than Oscar did, and I'd certainly pay to watch this fight, but history tells us that a fighter of Floyd's skillset doesn't lose in his prime to a 35 year old opponent.

 

[dempsey6068]

I'll agree with this to an extent. Certainly, Mayweather adjusted his style midway through the fight, but after the fracas, in the later rounds, Zab was still able to assert himself when he pressed. He just didn't seem to be mentally strong enough to put together 12 good rounds. Also, I don't know that it's a disadvantage for Floyd to fight a southpaw, as his best punch is the lead right hand, and most people would say that that's the ideal punch to throw against a lefty. That said, Mosley's age is troubling, and he does have a long amateur career, so I'm sure he does have some miles on him, but I don't really remember him taking a lot of damage besides those fights with Forest. It's always dangerous playing the "who has he beat" game with boxers. We just got done rationalizing Taylor's career victories, and I'm sure you could do the same with most fighters outside Barerra and a few others.

 

[BGrif21125]

That said, Mosley's age is troubling, and he does have a long amateur career, so I'm sure he does have some miles on him, but I don't really remember him taking a lot of damage besides those fights with Forest.

You're right, he hasn't absorbed a lot of punishment. Of his losses, he only got beat up in the first Forrest fight. His other losses were more technical in nature. The first fight with Oscar is the only war he's ever really been in, and he was never hurt in that one either.
I don't think he's an old 35, but he is 35 nevertheless.

It's always dangerous playing the "who has he beat" game with boxers. We just got done rationalizing Taylor's career victories, and I'm sure you could do the same with most fighters outside Barerra and a few others.

There's no questioning Mosley's level of competition. He's fought a ton of top fighters. In fact, you could make the argument he's been too brave at times. (for example, fighting Winky when he had a big money fight with Trinidad waiting in the wings, and choosing immediate rematches against both Forrest and Winky).

 

[BarrettNo17]

I think Shane can give Floyd more problems style-wise than Oscar did, and I'd certainly pay to watch this fight, but history tells us that a fighter of Floyd's skillset doesn't lose in his prime to a 35 year old opponent.

Agreed. Sugar Shane would most likely lose via lopsided Decision, 10-2 or 11-1. If boxing wants to sell, they should put together another Mayweather-Castillo, or have Floyd fight Margarito. If we're paying $50, we should have some punching. Not that i am complaining, as i though the ODLH/Floyd fight was a decent one, with a good undercard. The previous 2 pay per views i watched (Barrera-Marquez and Barrera-Juarez) were a waste of money, the MAB/JMM because of awful (criminally so) scoring on the entire card, especially the 1st fight (Demetrius Hopkins UD), and i don't think JMM beat MAB either, but that's from a long time Barrera fan.

 

[ElUno20]

Agreed. Sugar Shane would most likely lose via lopsided Decision, 10-2 or 11-1. If boxing wants to sell, they should put together another Mayweather-Castillo, or have Floyd fight Margarito. If we're paying $50, we should have some punching. Not that i am complaining, as i though the ODLH/Floyd fight was a decent one, with a good undercard. The previous 2 pay per views i watched (Barrera-Marquez and Barrera-Juarez) were a waste of money, the MAB/JMM because of awful (criminally so) scoring on the entire card, especially the 1st fight (Demetrius Hopkins UD), and i don't think JMM beat MAB either, but that's from a long time Barrera fan.

Yeah. Barrera/Juarez was brutal. But the JMM ppv was really the good. The scoring for the undercard was pretty bad but I actually thought JMM won the fight.

And I'd like to see a Shane/Floyd matchup. Although Shane has similar gifts as Floyd, he is way more offensive and looks to setup and land big shots. I think, similar to Zab, his speed would press Floyd. The main difference being that Shane is an experienced vet and wouldn't tire and get frustrated down the stretch.

 

[eddiew112]

We are all talking about Jermain's natural gifts, but what about Pavlik's? He's quick, has fast and heavy hands, is a pretty skilled defensive boxer, and he is a very good combination puncher. I say Pavlik knocks Taylor out if they fight.

Tito fighting Taylor? Jesus. No wonder people say that boxing is a joke. I guess he could play the role of glorified heavy bag (he seems to have put on some pounds judging by 24/7)......

I would love to see Shane fight Floyd. As far as I can see, he is the only fighter within the 147-154 range that could give Floyd any real trouble. Shane may have more gifts than Floyd (hands that are either just as fast or faster, more pop, supreme quickness, while Floyd is a better defensive fighter with better ring generalship skills). Margarito would get eaten alive by Floyd. Cotto would be interesting, although I think we will all have a better read on that after the Judah fight. I do know, however, that Floyd's defensive style is great for defending against body punches.

Is anyone else dreading the Winky-Hopkins fight? I do love and appreciate Winky, but I see this fight being a real snoozer. Perhaps Bernard will live up to his nickname.

 

[BGrif21125]

Is anyone else dreading the Winky-Hopkins fight? I do love and appreciate Winky, but I see this fight being a real snoozer. Perhaps Bernard will live up to his nickname.

Styles make fights, and if there were ever two fighters in the history of boxing whose styles figure to produce a boring fight, it's these two guys.

If I'm drinking that night, there's a chance I'll order that PPV, but I'll probably regret it. BTW, I like Winky in that fight simply because Hopkins' activity rate is getting lower with age, I think Winky will win on points by being more active.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Styles make fights, and if there were ever two fighters in the history of boxing whose styles figure to produce a boring fight, it's these two guys.

If I'm drinking that night, there's a chance I'll order that PPV, but I'll probably regret it. BTW, I like Winky in that fight simply because Hopkins' activity rate is getting lower with age, I think Winky will win on points by being more active.

I pretty much agree. Both fighters have heavily defensive, risk-averse styles. But Winky at least has very active jab and in his last fight or two has been making an effort to come out his shell and show some offense. So I think Winky should win a rather clear points decision.

But in the final analysis, who cares? Has the boxing public been clamoring for this fight? Does anyone have any interest in who can beat who in this matchup? The whole thing seems more like a business agreement than an actual boxing match.


I may even pass on the PPV for this, even though I'm usually a sucker for these things.


I AM going to get the $29.95 Shannon Briggs - Sultan Ibragimov PPV this weekend. Cal me crazy, but I think that could be a fun fight. Briggs is on a long KO streak and Ibragimov is one of the better pure boxers in the heavyweight division, so this could be kinda interesting.

 

[BGrif21125]

I AM going to get the $29.95 Shannon Briggs - Sultan Ibragimov PPV this weekend. Cal me crazy, but I think that could be a fun fight. Briggs is on a long KO streak and Ibragimov is one of the better pure boxers in the heavyweight division, so this could be kinda interesting.

Just read that Mike Tyson is going to walk Ibragimov to the ring on Saturday night. I guess Mike and Shannon must have some old neighborhood rift or something.

Also just realized that Sultan is trained by Jeff Mayweather, the 3rd brother in the Mayweather clan.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Very nice profile of Ibragimov's trainer, Jeff Mayweather aka "The Quiet Mayweather" on MaxBoxing.com today. Jeff, who unlike his brothers and nephew is college-educated, gives some interesting insights into the politics of being a boxing trainer as well as into the Mayweather family dynamic.


I always wondered who Leonard Ellerbee was and how he became Floyd's top adviser. Jeff Mayweather explains it.

 

[BGrif21125]

Tyson may not be allowed to work as a second in Ibragimov's corner, since he didn't fill out the correct paperwork to request permission from the judge in his drug case. Lol.
Link

I was expecting Tyson to be at Zab's fight next week, since they're close friends, but maybe he won't be able to make it. There should be quite a collection of fighters at MSG that night. Manny Pacquiao is going to be there to watch his brother (and to scout Soto as well), Tyson might be there, Tito could be there, Julio Cesar Chavez to watch his son fight, and I'd expect Pernell might be there as well because he's very close with Zab. That's just to name a few. Who knows, maybe Floyd drops in to scout Cotto.

That was a good article on Jeff Mayweather. Regarding Ellerbe, I was suprised that Jeff made it seem like he was the one who introduced him to Floyd. Several months ago, before the Baldomir fight, the Post down here in DC did a profile of Ellerbe (he's from DC), and that article said that Ellerbe was an amateur boxer himself and he became friends with Roger back in the 80s. So when Floyd Sr. went off to prison, Roger and Leonard stepped in to train/manage Floyd.
Which story is the real one? Who knows, the Mayweathers live in an alternate universe.

In other news, Roy Jones will be fighting Anthony Hanshaw (the ShoBox guy) on July 14 in a PPV fight that absolutely no one is going to order, since it's going up against the free HBO card with Cintron, Gatti, and Margarito-Williams.

Also, Jose Luis Castillo weighed 147 at the 30 day weigh-in this week, so it looks like he should be able to make weight for the Hatton fight.

 

[inter tatters]

Calzaghe to Fight Kessler in Denmark?

I'm surprised he's agreeing to go to Denmark to fight Mikkel Kessler, but at least it will settle the argument about who's the best Super-Middleweight out there right now as 3 titles will be on the line. Should be a decent fight too, as Kessler is an aggressive fighter like Lacey and should bring out the best in Calzaghe.

 

[BGrif21125]

Calzaghe to Fight Kessler in Denmark?

I'm surprised he's agreeing to go to Denmark to fight Mikkel Kessler, but at least it will settle the argument about who's the best Super-Middleweight out there right now as 3 titles will be on the line. Should be a decent fight too, as Kessler is an aggressive fighter like Lacey and should bring out the best in Calzaghe.

They just agreed in theory. There's still been no contract offer. I'll believe it when I see it, I'd be shocked if Calzaghe agrees to fight Kessler outside of the UK.

 

[BarrettNo17]

I pretty much agree. Both fighters have heavily defensive, risk-averse styles. But Winky at least has very active jab and in his last fight or two has been making an effort to come out his shell and show some offense. So I think Winky should win a rather clear points decision.

But in the final analysis, who cares? Has the boxing public been clamoring for this fight? Does anyone have any interest in who can beat who in this matchup? The whole thing seems more like a business agreement than an actual boxing match.


I may even pass on the PPV for this, even though I'm usually a sucker for these things.


I AM going to get the $29.95 Shannon Briggs - Sultan Ibragimov PPV this weekend. Cal me crazy, but I think that could be a fun fight. Briggs is on a long KO streak and Ibragimov is one of the better pure boxers in the heavyweight division, so this could be kinda interesting.

I'm with you. I don't desire to see Hop/Winky, there won't be a knockdown unless someone lands a wicked liver shot. Briggs and Ibragimov should be a good one to watch, I don't know how talented Sultan is, but seeing as he was trying to get Tyson in as his 2nd, i'm thinking not very. Briggs is a horrible technical boxer with a mean punch, I expect that they are fighting to see who will lose to Wladamir or Vitali Klitschko, or Sam Peter by either KO or HUGE unanimous decision

 

[BarrettNo17]

Calzaghe to Fight Kessler in Denmark?

I'm surprised he's agreeing to go to Denmark to fight Mikkel Kessler, but at least it will settle the argument about who's the best Super-Middleweight out there right now as 3 titles will be on the line. Should be a decent fight too, as Kessler is an aggressive fighter like Lacey and should bring out the best in Calzaghe.

Calzaghe is the Champion, Kessler should have to fight him in Manchester or Cardiff if he wants the belt. It isn't as if the UK is Indonesia or the Phillipines, where you need to KO the hometown guy in order to win the fight.

 

[BarrettNo17]

In other news, Roy Jones will be fighting Anthony Hanshaw (the ShoBox guy) on July 14 in a PPV fight .

Maybe RJJ and Holyfield are working towards a fight? LoL. Amazing, this guy thinks people will still pay to see him fight. I admit, i paid $25 to see a card involving David Tua, and Jameel McCline, but i wouldn't pay to see Roy Jones today.

 

[BGrif21125]

This month's issue of The Ring has a feature on an undefeated cruiserweight out of Providence named Matt Godfrey. Anybody ever seen him fight?

Eddie, you were a light heavy, right? Ever boxed at any of the same amateur tourneys as this guy?

 

[eddiew112]

Yes, I used to on the show cards that Manfredo Sr. would organize at his gym. Godfrey was on my card a couple of times. I probably met him once or twice (the New England amateur boxing community is a small one), but I cannot remember.

 

[inter tatters]

You might not believe it, and the Fight has still not been officially confirmed, but Joe Calzaghe is certainly talking like he's on his way to Copenhagen in September...

Calzaghe - 'I will KO Kessler'

 

[ElUno20]

You might not believe it, and the Fight has still not been officially confirmed, but Joe Calzaghe is certainly talking like he's on his way to Copenhagen in September...

Calzaghe - 'I will KO Kessler'

Now if only JT would also step up and take on Pavlik.

Maybe RJJ and Holyfield are working towards a fight? LoL. Amazing, this guy thinks people will still pay to see him fight. I admit, i paid $25 to see a card involving David Tua, and Jameel McCline, but i wouldn't pay to see Roy Jones today.

The tickets are about 75% sold out in Mississippi so they should have a decent live crowd. But it's not what you think. Showtime didn't want that fight so they had to go to PPV.

But July 14th is Margarito/Williams so no boxing fans outside of Mississippi will be watching.

 

[BGrif21125]

Take with a grain of salt as always, but according to Dan Rafael, DiBella and Arum have agreed to a September fight between Taylor and Pavlik.

And BTW, the early word is that it will NOT be on PPV.

 

[eddiew112]

I'm in my hotel room in NYC, watching the card in Katowice, Poland on MSG. Bob Sheridan just said that if we dropped the MOAB on Baghdad and Mecca it would be a good idea....

 

[BarrettNo17]

I'm in my hotel room in NYC, watching the card in Katowice, Poland on MSG. Bob Sheridan just said that if we dropped the MOAB on Baghdad and Mecca it would be a good idea....

 

[eddiew112]

I was bored today, so I went back and looked at ESPN's 50 Greatest Boxers of All-Time. Here are my problems with the list:

-The omissions of Ricardo Lopez and Aaron Pryor
-Ranking Ruben Olivares ahead of Alexis Arguello (33 as opposed to 42)
-Billy Conn at 31????
-Ranking Marco Antonio Barrera ahead of Pernell Whitaker (43 as opposed to 44)
-Pernell Whitaker being ranked 44th
-Putting Roberto Duran at 6th?
-George Foreman at 20th?
-JCC 20 spots ahead of Whitaker?
-Ezzard Charles and Jake LaMotta at 27 and 28? What??? I'm not sure either of them even belong on this list.
-Roy Jones Jr. at 46th. He is looking up at Oscar De La Hoya. That is absolute crap.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

Take with a grain of salt as always, but according to Dan Rafael, DiBella and Arum have agreed to a September fight between Taylor and Pavlik.

And BTW, the early word is that it will NOT be on PPV.

Boy, I hope not. That would be a PPV bomb if ever there was one. Taylor would bring exactly zero PPV buyers. Pavlik has the potential to be a solid PPV attraction -- but he's nowhere near that point yet. This is a perfect match for HBO's WCB -- in fact, it's the type of fight that "World Championship Boxing" was created for.

Now. I just wish that HBO would allow promoters to license replay rights for its fights to the "free" networks, or at least ESPN. That would be a big shot in the arm for boxing.

 

[BGrif21125]

I was bored today, so I went back and looked at ESPN's 50 Greatest Boxers of All-Time. Here are my problems with the list:

-The omissions of Ricardo Lopez and Aaron Pryor
-Ranking Ruben Olivares ahead of Alexis Arguello (33 as opposed to 42)
-Billy Conn at 31????
-Ranking Marco Antonio Barrera ahead of Pernell Whitaker (43 as opposed to 44)
-Pernell Whitaker being ranked 44th
-Putting Roberto Duran at 6th?
-George Foreman at 20th?
-JCC 20 spots ahead of Whitaker?
-Ezzard Charles and Jake LaMotta at 27 and 28? What??? I'm not sure either of them even belong on this list.
-Roy Jones Jr. at 46th. He is looking up at Oscar De La Hoya. That is absolute crap.

Anytime you make a list as long as a "Top 50", there are going to be some mistakes no matter what, but I agree, there were a few errors that were glaring.

Whitaker at 44 is by far the worst of all. I rank Whitaker either 6th or 7th all-time, and as the best fighter of the past 30 years (I think he's one of the most underrated athletes of the last few decades).
But even if you don't rate Whitaker nearly as highly as I do, there's still no way that he's any lower than Top 20. That's the absolute low point. To have him 20 spots below Chavez (who Whitaker took to school when they fought) is a joke.

He got the Top 5 right, but then again that's not too big a deal, just about any list is going to have Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis and Pep as the Top 5.

 

[inter tatters]

Cardiff in Wales looks like it's going to hold another decent card on July 21st. The announced line-up so far Enzo Maccarinelli will defend his WBO Cruiserweight belt against former-WBC Champ Wayne Braithwaite, Souleymane M'Baye defends his WBA Light-Welterweight belt and Alex Arthur and Koba Gogoladze will fight for the vacant WBO Super Featherweight title.

I also see that Castillo has been rubbishing Hatton's record ahead of their fight on June 23rd. He reckons Hatton beat Kostya Tszyu 'when he was on the way down'. Of course Castillo has fought the better fighters (Corrales, Mayweather, Casamayor etc), but they were all at a lighter weight and I suspect Hatton's more natural weight and relentless 'pressure' style will make it difficult for Castillo.

 

[eddiew112]

Anytime you make a list as long as a "Top 50", there are going to be some mistakes no matter what, but I agree, there were a few errors that were glaring.

Whitaker at 44 is by far the worst of all. I rank Whitaker either 6th or 7th all-time, and as the best fighter of the past 30 years (I think he's one of the most underrated athletes of the last few decades).
But even if you don't rate Whitaker nearly as highly as I do, there's still no way that he's any lower than Top 20. That's the absolute low point. To have him 20 spots below Chavez (who Whitaker took to school when they fought) is a joke.

He got the Top 5 right, but then again that's not too big a deal, just about any list is going to have Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis and Pep as the Top 5.

No way Pernell is up THAT high as an all-time great, but I would have guarenteed top 15. I think having Roy Jones Jr. so far down was ridiculous, considering the man won titles in four weight divisions and went from middleweight to heavyweight, and that for a four-five year period he just did not lose rounds.

Ricardo Lopez might have been the most dominant fighter of the last 20 years, and they can't find a place for him. Alexis Arguello needs to be a top 20 fighter in my mind, but all in all, good effort by ESPN to put the list together.

 

[BGrif21125]

No way Pernell is up THAT high as an all-time great, but I would have guarenteed top 15. I think having Roy Jones Jr. so far down was ridiculous, considering the man won titles in four weight divisions and went from middleweight to heavyweight, and that for a four-five year period he just did not lose rounds.

Ricardo Lopez might have been the most dominant fighter of the last 20 years, and they can't find a place for him. Alexis Arguello needs to be a top 20 fighter in my mind, but all in all, good effort by ESPN to put the list together.

In 2002, Ring Magazine celebrated its 80th year of publication by doing a "Top 80 fighters of the last 80 years" list.
Here's their list:
Link

 

[BGrif21125]

I watched a grossly overweight Hasim Rahman fight to a boring win last night on Versus. 45 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

The latest examples of boxing idiocy, Parts 1 and 2:

It appears right now that Showtime will be airing Peter-Maskaev on the exact same night (9/29) as HBO plans to air Taylor-Pavlik (which isn't official yet, fwiw). Showtime should just bump their show back a week to their normal first-week-of-the-month slot, I'll be watching Taylor-Pavlik if I'm forced to make a choice. That's an easy decision.

The WBA has announced Cotto's new #1 mandatory contender, and he is Frederic Klose of France. If you're asking yourself "Who the fuck is Frederic Klose and how the hell did he become a #1 contender?", then that makes two of us.
If I were Cotto, I'd tell the WBA to get lost, he doesn't need a belt anymore to get a big fight, his next fight will be big regardless.

 

[eddiew112]

I like the Ring list better. Interesting to see that they put a lot of guys that ESPN didn't. Tommy Loughran, Carmen Basilio, Michael Spinks, Dick Tiger, Aaron Pryor, Kid Gavilan all make the Rings top 50 and not ESPN's. They also have a lot of ESPN's questionable decisions (De La Hoya, Conn, LaMotta, and Tyson) out of the top 50. But Joe Frazier ahead of Roy Jones Jr.? Please.

Not sure how you put Dick Tiger at 31 and put Gene Fullmer at 74, but hey. I like seeing Bob Foster at 55. He would probably be much higher if he didn't constantly move up and get his ass kicked by great heavyweights. But the best part of this list are the higher rankings of Hagler, Whitaker, and Carlos Monzon. But I still think Roberto Duran is too high on every list.

 

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I watched a grossly overweight Hasim Rahman fight to a boring win last night on Versus. 45 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.

On the other hand, the lightweight fight that opened the Versus show, Miguel Huerta vs. "Kid Diamond," was a barn-burner, though it ended in a highly questionable decision in favor of Diamond. But probably the best fight I've seen on this otherwise disappointing Versus boxing series.

The latest examples of boxing idiocy, Parts 1 and 2:

It appears right now that Showtime will be airing Peter-Maskaev on the exact same night (9/29) as HBO plans to air Taylor-Pavlik (which isn't official yet, fwiw). Showtime should just bump their show back a week to their normal first-week-of-the-month slot, I'll be watching Taylor-Pavlik if I'm forced to make a choice. That's an easy decision.

That's why God gave us TiVo, I guess. When this happens, I always watch the Showtime fight first because the HBO guys have the rather obnoxious habit of announcing the result of the Showtime fight during their broadcast.

However, if Maskaev-Peter taks place in Russia (not sure if a site has been decided yet) maybe SHowtime will do what HBO sometimes does and air it live in the afternoon -- BEFORE the HBO fight.

The WBA has announced Cotto's new #1 mandatory contender, and he is Frederic Klose of France. If you're asking yourself "Who the fuck is Frederic Klose and how the hell did he become a #1 contender?", then that makes two of us.
If I were Cotto, I'd tell the WBA to get lost, he doesn't need a belt anymore to get a big fight, his next fight will be big regardless.

I have no idea why these idiotic "mandatory" things keep happening. The "sanctioning bodies," if you ask me, are the biggest plague on the sport. One of the edges that the UFC has on boxing is that the UFC is a promoter that crowns its own champions. But in boxing it's too late to establish that type of structure. So we're stuck with the ultra-corrupt and sleazy "sanctioning" organizations.

 

[Naehring11]

The latest examples of boxing idiocy, Parts 1 and 2:

It appears right now that Showtime will be airing Peter-Maskaev on the exact same night (9/29) as HBO plans to air Taylor-Pavlik (which isn't official yet, fwiw). Showtime should just bump their show back a week to their normal first-week-of-the-month slot, I'll be watching Taylor-Pavlik if I'm forced to make a choice. That's an easy decision.

Apprently Showtime is doing this because the weekend of 9/29-9/30 is their free preview weekend. Doesn't make it suck any less but they have had a tendency to do this in the past. For the first time I can remember, HBO didn't spoil the result the last time this happened but I wouldn't trust them. Luckily, I'm pretty sure Peter will win easily.

The WBA has announced Cotto's new #1 mandatory contender, and he is Frederic Klose of France. If you're asking yourself "Who the fuck is Frederic Klose and how the hell did he become a #1 contender?", then that makes two of us.
If I were Cotto, I'd tell the WBA to get lost, he doesn't need a belt anymore to get a big fight, his next fight will be big regardless.

I don't know the exact timing, but I guess the mandatory isn't due immediately. He will be able to take another fight first. Assuming his next fight is another big one, I don't have a huge problem with an easy fight after that, but to have something like this forced is ridiculous.

 

[BGrif21125]

I don't know the exact timing, but I guess the mandatory isn't due immediately. He will be able to take another fight first. Assuming his next fight is another big one, I don't have a huge problem with an easy fight after that, but to have something like this forced is ridiculous.

To my knowledge, the mandatory is due in December.
There is already an agreement for a Cotto-Margarito fight in November/December, provided that Margarito beats Williams (big if).

So there does seem to be the potential for a time conflict here.

Regardless, it's a big problem that someone like Cotto, who has lined himself up for a series of big-money fights, has to waste his time fighting someone that nobody has ever heard of.
The ranking systems of the sanctioning bodies are a joke. (Example: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Tim Austin).

 

[BGrif21125]

BTW, for anyone locked in the house today, ESPN Classic is showing a bunch of fights.

Right now they've got Camacho vs. the pride of Cranston, Vinny Pazienza. They're also showing Bowe/Holyfield and Whitaker's fights against Azumah Nelson and Buddy McGirt. I think there's an Ali fight later tonight too.

 

[eddiew112]

Nice right hand by Chris Young, although you would like to hold the left a little higher. Derrek could easily come over the top with a quick right hand. And is Derrek Lee the next Pernell Whitaker?

 

[ElUno20]

Growing Up Gotti with a great performance tonight. Beautiful mix of movement and combination punching.