You specifically referenced the history from 2004-2018. If you're referencing the past as a selling point, you don't stop short of good results two years ago. That's my only point.
So....who is the new GM/head of baseball ops?
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No, but you do keep trying to plant goalposts at a target no one’s kicking at.
Haven't seen this name mentioned or anything, but I was wondering what we'd think about Jon Daniels? He's working for the Rays now as a "senior advisor," he shepherded Texas through what is probably the greatest period of success in that team's history, he built them back up into a team that made the playoffs a couple of times, he signed some deals that worked out decently well - I think he was the one behind the Seager and Semien deals, which the new guy is probably pretty happy about - and, uh, he worked for Dunkin' Donuts before he moved into baseball? (Like, not at a Dunkin Donuts, for the corporate office.) I dunno, probably won't be him, but it's kind of weird that his name hasn't come up.
I have heard him mentioned on multiple podcasts, including Baseball isn't Boring with Jim Duquette:
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vYmFzZWJhbGwtaXNudC1ib3Jpbmc/episode/YzNjN2M0ZWUtNTU1OS0xMWVkLWE0YzEtNjM0OTM4ZGNkMjJh?ep=14
I apologize in advance if you can't read it, but this Globe article talks about how Daniels interviewed Alex Cora back in 2014:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2019/06/14/rangers-holds-cora-high-esteem/CmXbBEuqhX9yIRFC1mg2kK/story.html?event=event12
Daniels came very close to winning a title in Texas, and has the experience of making tough decisions. Add in a Cornell education and ties to Cora, and he seems to fit the profile Sox ownership has sought in the past.
Gammons and SoxsProspects respond:
View: https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/1706245455409987948?t=Xh45NxtGBghJmSL8AVGKGw&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/1706246583627510131?t=AD321lkp_31ecdc9KlXdtA&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1706307585781973250?t=Bx6P5Ojwml-sTG70mDDzoQ&s=19
Quick interview with Fuld:
View: https://twitter.com/tylermilliken_/status/1706383426993955059?t=jJe4b6ZYNu5zgutnmv1iSg&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/tylermilliken_/status/1706383426993955059?t=jJe4b6ZYNu5zgutnmv1iSg&s=19
Heyman update:
For the Red Sox’s top exec job, either of two Dodgers execs could fit: Massachusetts product Brandon Gomes or ex-Red Sox exec Josh Byrnes. A’s GM David Forst, a Harvard man, also makes sense.
https://nypost.com/2023/09/28/padres-juan-soto-should-be-on-mets-yankees-radars-if-available/
For the Red Sox’s top exec job, either of two Dodgers execs could fit: Massachusetts product Brandon Gomes or ex-Red Sox exec Josh Byrnes. A’s GM David Forst, a Harvard man, also makes sense.
https://nypost.com/2023/09/28/padres-juan-soto-should-be-on-mets-yankees-radars-if-available/
He's throwing crap against the wall like everyone else.
I guess I'm rooting for Brynes, if only because I don't think any other big names with GM experience are going to be interested and I'd like to see a strong executive who can stand up to Cora.
I’m not a fan of the Cora Coup, but to be fair we just had an executive stand up to him and it provided several seasons of embarrassing Red Sox baseball both in terms of outcomes and quality of play.
I guess the money is really nice, and there are not very many chances for baseball execs and wanna be execs so they can't just walk away from every situation that's not a perfect fit, but this opportunity would seem to be a real stinker imo.
Yeah.... the FO has really kinda sorta been pretty shitty over the past 12 years. The bullshit that happened at the end of the Tito and Theo era (which they supposedly fixed after they scapegoated LL for all that nastiness) and I don't think the end of Cherington (hey..... take a demotion) era was handled well (considering from reports that Pablo and Hanley were basically forced on him). Dombrowski clearly has an issue with the FO and I think cutting Bloom one year earlier than what I think his due date was because Cora apparently doesn't agree with that vision. And still.... no word from Henry.
I'd defintely take the money to be the Sox GM and be put through the media and FO bullshit for 3 seasons and then be shit-talked on the way out... but if you're one of the GM guys available, I'd consider waiting for a different opportunity. I do not like the way Henry and Co. have handled the team since around 2011.
We have been told that they have a fantastic farm system and a ton of cash. It is one of the premier franchises in all of sports history. If it's a shitty situation, I really don't understand what the Bloomers have been selling.
Those aspects that you mention are the positives. The negatives are things like being unable to actually do your job without a ton of interference and having a manager and presumably entire staff (on field and off) foisted on you. If I'm head of operations I want to make those decisions myself or at least have the strongest voice in those decisions.
Do Fuld and Cora have a relationship? I think the individual that gets hire is done so with Cora's full blessing and vetting.
Exactly. It's a big market job with ownership who has historically spent money, a great farm (lol @ "the Bloomers" moniker), some solid cost-controlled youngsters. However, ownership has been flighty in the last few FO changes. And if I were a candidate, I'd also want some assurances that ownership intends to stay in that top tier of organizational spending, not just in drafting/international/development but also on MLB salaries. And finally, I'd be concerned as a candidate that I'm walking into a job where significant numbers of my staff, including but not limited to the on-field manager, have been already hired and are essentially forced upon me. It's not the same weirdly matrixed micromanagement that happened in the Lucky days, but it's still weird and improperly matrixed imo.
tl;dr; saying that the job has its downsides as well as its upsides is hardly a hot take
This is a completely reasonable take. If I were a top-flight GM candidate, I would have reservations about ownership that would have to be assuaged during talks with them.
The candidate would also have to talk with Cora and be comfortable with him (although the "coup" talk around here has got absurd) or be able to pick his own candidate.
However, there's a big difference between what you said in the bolded and "this opportunity would be a real stinker"
Exactly.
Bloom walked into a stinker of a situation. No cap room (plus Sale / Price tied up for years), poor farm system, (maybe) a mandate to trade their best player.
If that's the case, it seems extremely shortsighted. The new hire should decide if Cora stays or goes, not the other way around.
Agreed with both of you. The current state of the Sox is pretty solid in more ways than not. Great farm, some solid locked-down talent, no question. Ownership has a history of supporting the team financially and has won championships.
Just saying that a candidate might have questions about how the org structure and hierarchy will work over the next few years (i.e., his/her contract period). From the outside some things have looked a bit squirrely. But no, folks shouldn't be chicken little right now either. It's a good job.
FWIW, I don't discount the possibility that there are some executives out there that would want the job because they think Cora was right and look at how Bloom ran the franchise and think "I can sure as sh*t do better than that."
Yes, Bloom did a very good job building the farm system. I even think he got a good return for one year of Betts. Yes, the team made a great run to the ALCS three seasons ago. However, there were plenty of people on here (raises hand) that looked at the majority of high profile decisions made from the 2021-22 off-season on and had serious concerns about the choices Bloom made (or didn't make).
I fully allow some executives might see Cora's actions and words as insubordination or going outside the chain of command or whatever word choice one wants. There are probably also some that are fine with what Cora is saying because they think the baseball operations of the Boston Red Sox should have been handled much differently the past several seasons. Obviously someone with the first would think of this as a "stinker" of a job; but someone with the other could really want the job and think its an excellent situation to take the resources Bloom had and have made different choices with those resources.
I actually have a hard time knowing what choices Bloom made or didn't make. For example, did they not sell at the trade deadline in 2022 because of a Bloom decision or ownership decision? I think things like that are what makes the job not so shiny.
None of us know for sure. For all we know Bloom was begging the front office to add at this deadline and they didn't. Or the front office asked Bloom to add, and he didn't. Or (my personal take) the front office didn't require him to do a thing - but made sure that any hire knows they're going to be judged on the outcome of their decisions and not just the "soundness" of the process leading up to a decision.
Though to be fair, I don't believe any of us KNOW what decision was made by what entity in any situation regarding the Red Sox. Possibly excepting if G38 talks about exactly who wanted him in Boston. Outside of that, I don't think any of us are in the front office. It all depends on how the candidate looks at the dynamic and the actors involved in said dynamic.
Every report about ownership, and this is by people who generally like JWH and by people who don't, is that they don't interfere with the front office once the season starts.
They are pitched a budget and an overall idea that they sign off on at the beginning of the year and then they get out of the way...to the point that sometimes it's a detriment (Sale and some of the Dombo moves).
Maybe Bloom dug himself in a hole by pitching the ownership group on competing before 2022 and then didn't want to go back on it..but I find it very hard to believe that ownership met with Bloom in July and told him there's no way he could sell. I think that was a Bloom decision through and through
This is generally my stance on FSG. Yes, they obviously have to sign off on massive contracts. But otherwise, I think they pretty much tell the FO that (generally speaking) they have a budget of $Luxury Tax Threshold and then pretty much get out of the way.
If a FO wants to go over, they of course have to get approval. I'm sure they're also on occasion told "you have to come in under this some way" (ie for the 2020 season) to re-set the penalties. How the FO chooses to do those things are up to them. They're then judged based on the success or failure of what they did.
*None of that seems unreasonable to me.*
Would I want a manager who takes 0 responsibility for anything that happens & scapegoats literally everyone else rather than taking personal accountability when things go wrong? Who has no personnel experience but somehow thinks he knows what he's doing despite 0 evidence that he does? Who has no ability to keep players playing at a competent level following the trade deadline because they didn't get the new players they wanted?
I don't care how badly you think Bloom screwed up, that's a toxic environment & you're already handcuffed as it relates to whatever your vision is for a team. Hopefully that's not what's actually going on & they plan on hiring someone new with actual autonomy to bring smart new things to the organization & the freedom to implement their vision. & if their vision legitimately includes Alex Cora, & they don't just have to say it includes Alex Cora because that's the only way they'll get hired? Ok, I guess.
I don't care how badly you think Bloom screwed up, that's a toxic environment & you're already handcuffed as it relates to whatever your vision is for a team. Hopefully that's not what's actually going on & they plan on hiring someone new with actual autonomy to bring smart new things to the organization & the freedom to implement their vision. & if their vision legitimately includes Alex Cora, & they don't just have to say it includes Alex Cora because that's the only way they'll get hired? Ok, I guess.
I view it differently. If I'm a new GM, and I have an existing manager, then there is a potential scapegoat if things don't go well in year 1. I can evaluate Cora, and then decide to move on and hire my own guy, or stick with him. It's kind of a built-in excuse. It's not as if the FO is handing him a 4 year extension and telling the new GM he is tied at the hip with Cora. YMMV.
It depends on if someone you really want is available now & won't be next year. But if you're already looking for a scapegoat heading into a job, & not looking to maximize results, I don't think you're the CBO I would like to hire. & how much authority do you really have as it relates to him? Like if you put together a team that you think was a 92 win team with a better coach, but with Cora you won 88 & made the playoffs, does he get an extension anyway because you can't let him go after he made the playoffs?
I would want to implement my vision for the franchise, from top to bottom, immediately.
Why is it a lock in your mind that we should have sold the last two deadlines? It's essentially like having Wade Boggs bunt with a runner on 2nd and two outs.
I don't think I said that anywhere in the post that you were responding to? I was saying that whatever the decision made, it was Bloom's decision.
Ah, well apologies if I misinterpreted you, but IIRC you'd argued before that you'd disliked the last two deadlines and wished we'd sold, so I inferred that was still your point.
The day you're hired begins the count down to your being fired. The idea of wasting a year of whatever time I have to this sort of foolishness after watching this team's performance to close out the season leaves me thankful for the opportunity to interview and looking forward to my next.
The Sox have very clearly indicated Cora is not going anywhere and is one of the top two parts of the organization. The hire will have to be someone who fully supports Cora.
One of the (supposed) issues with Bloom was how he handled the past two trade deadlines -- adding incrementally, but shying away from making what could be considered "bold" moves, either in bringing in or letting go major pieces.
For the most part, we attributed this approach to Bloom. But the clear preference of management to keep Cora (at least) in the dugout is of the same cloth. The bold move would be to have kept Bloom, or clean house. Playing it down the middle like this -- with the side effect of how candidates will view the situation where the manager already has the FO's ear -- is the biggest risk of all, particularly in a division where there are three playoff teams and the other non-qualifier is going to scorch the Earth to return to the postseason.
It could all turn out swell. Or not.
For the most part, we attributed this approach to Bloom. But the clear preference of management to keep Cora (at least) in the dugout is of the same cloth. The bold move would be to have kept Bloom, or clean house. Playing it down the middle like this -- with the side effect of how candidates will view the situation where the manager already has the FO's ear -- is the biggest risk of all, particularly in a division where there are three playoff teams and the other non-qualifier is going to scorch the Earth to return to the postseason.
It could all turn out swell. Or not.
Sure, there are downsides and nobody's going to come in expecting to get Cashman-style tenure, but the "not going to get good candidates" take is bizarre to me. It's a PBO job for the Red Sox. It's not like any of the other guys Henry has churned have had problems finding more work in the field afterwards.
I'm sure there will be fine candidates. But the best candidates will want autonomy.
The last two trade deadlines make sense to me now. I can’t help but think Bloom had his hands tied by Cora for the majority of his time here. It wouldn’t surprise me if Bloom wanted to be more bold and sell both this and last year, though especially last year, but couldn’t because of how influential Cora is with ownership. It feels like the team quits playing baseball after the trade deadline because things didn’t go their way. I think Cora is a huge part of that. His job is to keep the players focused on playing quality baseball but instead he whines about what the team didn’t do. I think if you put a marshmallow in front of Cora and told him he’d get another if he didn’t eat the first right away, he’d ignore you, eat the first marshmallow, and throw a fit when he doesn’t get the second. That’s not the type of person I want managing my MLB team if I’m the new CBO of the Boston Red Sox and my focus is on creating something sustainable.
Every GM job has plusses and minuses, and there are only 30 of them with only a handful at most opening up each year, but one thing no one is mentioning here is that the AL East continues to be completely loaded. BAL still has a loaded system with three more first round picks next summer, TB is always brimming with young talent, NY has already largely reloaded around Judge and Cole and TOR is always a very talented wild card.
BOS has some major issues with team defense at the MLB level, a hitter's environment (those two factors are going to make it tougher to attract the big name SPs they are hoping to this winter), plus their farm system seems very lopsided towards position players without much top-notch pitching on the way.
So yeah, I don't think it's such a tempting job, but you only need one great candidate to be up for the challenge.
BOS has some major issues with team defense at the MLB level, a hitter's environment (those two factors are going to make it tougher to attract the big name SPs they are hoping to this winter), plus their farm system seems very lopsided towards position players without much top-notch pitching on the way.
So yeah, I don't think it's such a tempting job, but you only need one great candidate to be up for the challenge.
Why are we assuming there won't be autonomy? Because the new person is possibly going to inherit a manager? They're also going to inherit EVPs like Eddie Romero and Brian O'Halloran. And plenty of other staff. There's no chance anyone is going to come into the job expecting to be able to start from scratch with the whole baseball ops department.
No... the remaining candidates will be fine with that, though, as that's what they need to be ok with to remain as candidates apparently.
Hope I'm wrong, but I can't imagine them poaching the best & brightest like this.
If the reports of Cora being untouchable are true, that would be a large impediment to someone having autonomy.
I view someone like Romero differently than someone like Cora because Romero can have a prevalent of a role as you want him to have, & he has proven to be very good at overseeing the IFA process, but if you deem it necessary you could still add different people to that department, take a more hands-on approach, hire him an assistant you trust, etc.
O'Halloran has been given a job - but no power. Having an advisor in place who you can lean on as much or as little as you want doesn't materially impact autonomy. You can always bring in your own advisor who you trust more.
You can't really work around the manager. You can't install whatever coaching staff you want if you're on a different page. If Cora is doing things in a manner you do not like, there's not much you can do about it. If you disagree with Cora, there's no guarantee ownership won't side with him over you.
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