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Shank aka CHB calls out David Price calling out Eck

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Jul 23, 2017.

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  1. Green Monster

    Green Monster Member SoSH Member

    He probably shouldn't mention that Edro has 47 pitches thru 2 innings
  2. TonyPenaNeverJuiced

    TonyPenaNeverJuiced Member SoSH Member

    Sorry, no. I have not written them down ever, but I've been consistently surprised at the level to which he is both overly laudatory and severely critical. It's not the play-by-play guy's job to tame an color commentator, but the amount of awkward silences I perceive between O'Brien and Eck is jarring, to my ears and eyes, at least.

    Hopefully you've cooled your jets by now. I didn't say anything to that effect. I said, "When did getting inducted mean you can be a pompous jerk and get away with it? When did it make you an expert on the game?" and "being a first ballot HOFer didn't bestow upon him some great knowledge." I stand by both - Eck is a decent commentator on certain aspects of the game, terrible on others (he's an inverse Remy when it comes to pitching/batting). There's a huge difference between playing the game and commentating on it, and there are MANY insights only a former player, at any level, could provide. My point is that I constantly see people bringing up the HoF as if it's a pass to enlightenment and otherworldliness. It's an award for your playing, not for your mind. If your mind helped you get there, more power to you, but IQ's (even baseball ones) aren't on plaques.

    I don't recall saying that... I want a commentator who can say why they said "yuck" and why a pitcher rehabbing from an injury elicits "yuck," as opposed to, say, "he didn't pitch well, that line is bad, you have to be concerned, but he's a rehabbing pitcher and you hope it's a step in the right direction."

    If that's blowing smoke up anyone's ass...

    That really doesn't seem to be the problem here. This isn't a fact check. It's not unfair to say "yuck" when looking at a AAA-rehab
    assignment-game. It's just bad commentary, and a really poor way to express how one feels about something. So when Eck does that a lot of time, to the point that the average-fan might even find it endearing or a part of his "cranky" demeanor, it might wear on the guys who have to share a plane with him, who get their checks from the bosses - the kind of people who might think that someone like Eck might get the struggle and give some nuance, not onomatopoeia. He doesn't have to cut them slack, he just needs to flush after he takes a little shit on them.
  3. chawson

    chawson Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    My point has never been that Eck is especially problematic. I'm saying there's an enormous double standard that Shaughnessy and many on this board are holding him to compared to Price, who is certainly pitching with the same "intense fear and anxiety" Eck did plus an immeasurable amount of additional, difficult-to-qualify scrutiny from a Boston media, fan base, and institutional history that treats black and brown athletes as "other."

    Nobody did or said any single thing that was "racist" — that's not how it works. But the entire scenario has roots in Boston's racism. Which is why you have posters on this board fantasizing about a stadium of fans bringing in signs that read YUCK in order to publicly humiliate a hometown player. Who, again, is one of the best pitchers in baseball.

    For example, would anybody think to suggest that Eck was "thin-skinned" because he self-medicated with alcohol? No. (I wouldn't either, because it's shitty.) But I'd argue that it doesn't happen here because the vast majority of this board, and New England, sees themselves in him.
    #153 chawson, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  4. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

    I'm not one of them. But are you seriously saying that posters here are racist for expressing a desire to taunt Price a bit over all this?
  5. nothumb

    nothumb Member SoSH Member

    This was the thing that immediately jumped out to me about the article. He calls Price thin-skinned one minute, but then says Eck quit traveling with the team because of a sarcastic JBJ tweet two years ago like it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

    I've long since given up trying to point out how structural racism works to people on the internet. Might as well try to piss up a rope. But I agree with you here.
  6. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker lurker

    If this has all been reported accurately, I think the actions by Price (and even more so by the alleged clappers) would be thin-skinned and immature regardless of who the target was. I am not emotionally invested in Eckersley in particular. And I guess you could make the case that using a childish word like "yuck" is in fact kind of undignified for a professional broadcaster. But I think players would be smarter to keep their emotions on these things in check. (Especially since it can so easily backfire - the "yuck" buried in a postgame show is now famous.)
  7. ricopetro6

    ricopetro6 lurker

    any player who is concerned or even aware of what a color commentator is saying during a broadcast has some major personality flaws. I'm not sure how they even know what is being said.
    As for Eck, I really don't remember him being highly critical of any Sox player. If saying something like player X has to be able to hit a curve ball to stay in this league after player X continually flails away at curves in the dirt is being overly critical..then so be it.

    Edit..and I will take Eck's style all day long over Remy's 10000th explanation on the difference between a suicide and safety squeeze.

    ..and Yuck was the perfect term for that outing..
  8. absintheofmalaise

    absintheofmalaise too many flowers Dope SoSH Member

    Fruity? We do not allow the use of terms such as that here. This is your only warning.
  9. Gdiguy

    Gdiguy Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    To me, this is more an issue of the status of commentators with respect to the team than anything else. They want to travel with the team and be one of the guys, but also be able to be able to honestly assess the players' performance; I just think that's a tightrope that's far too thin to walk in the long-term.

    I mean, I don't think Eck said anything really overly critical and out of line for a commentator; but at the same time, if another player had said that, he'd absolutely be reprimanded if not kicked off the team. If it's just a random guy on ESPN that they see once every few months for interviews then ok, whatever; but that's a different relationship than the one they're trying to push NESN's broadcasters to have.
  10. Red(s)HawksFan

    Red(s)HawksFan Member SoSH Member

    I'm of the opinion that there isn't anyone else who would have written the article at all, except maybe Bob Hohler-style in an excuse-making (inventing?) article after a disappointing end to the season. So I find it hard to separate the author from the piece. And FWIW, I don't question the validity of it. I question the level of importance/newsworthiness of it.
  11. Rough Carrigan

    Rough Carrigan reasons within Reason Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    For something you're so sure of you should be able to remember something despite, like everyone else, not taking notes. I can remember one Eck description that absolutely amazed me. It was 2003 and a worn out, no good any more Glendon Rusch, was pitching for the Brewers against the Sox in an interleague game and Eck said (quoting from memory) "He's got nuthin'! They're gonna kill him." It stuck with me because it was so honest. Rusch didn't have anything. He was having a terrible year and getting tattooed by everyone but especially by the 2003 Sox. The thing is, I think most of Eck's unusual statements are expressions of honest wonder at how terrific a play a guy made or how very far a guy hit a homer or things like that. Eck's calls have a sense of genuine wonder and appreciation in them that most announcers have lost or suppressed as part of their striving for their idea of professionalism. But I think Eck gears it back when considering criticism of Sox players. I don't recall him ever saying that Doug Pfister's or any other Sox hurler's "got nuthin'!" or some other Sox pitcher had better get out of there before the opposition kills him or anything close to that. But maybe I've forgotten. If anyone is so certain that he's been unfairly harsh in regard to Sox players they should be able to remember something.
  12. BestGameEvah

    BestGameEvah Member SoSH Member

    You don't get to choose my words!
    It was how JBJ went about getting that pic.
    Premeditated, diceptive to Gregg to arrange photo, and as another poster so eloquently stated...
    staging a disingenuous photo-op to embarrass Eck and for SELF-promotion.
    Proceeded to blow his own horn.
    So yes, it was a sneak attack. JBJ didn't like that he was performing poorly and that Eck was
    reporting accurately. No half truths in the story. The story is the 'behavior.'
  13. Cumberland Blues

    Cumberland Blues Dope Dope

    I remember that Glendon Rusch game. At one point when they came back from commercial, Eck apologized to Rusch's mom for all the mean things he was saying about her son. Present day Eck is pretty tame by comparison.
  14. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

    Considering that the Sox are 6-11 in their last 17 games, they might want to stop worrying about stupid crap like what Eck says on the broadcasts, and might want to concentrate more on winning some goddamn games. They're playing very poorly, the offense is non-existant, and yet these guys are all worked up about broadcast commentary.

    To bring back a classic line from SoSH past, this team needs an enema.
  15. jateders

    jateders lurker

    The JBJ thing seems like nothing to me. 70% of Eck's broadcasting style is talking about players giving crap to other players, this feels like that. I could be naive but I think it was mostly JBJ doing some ribbing. Regarding Price, he's a a-hole but if he pitches well I don't care. This whole thing is Dan-O trying for page clicks and it's working for him. Eck has let it slide off his back, this things over, let's move on.
  16. rmaher

    rmaher lurker

    You're right. I said that because of Price's skin color. Not because I thought it would be an amusing (although merely hypothetical) response to a grown man's childish behavior.

    You just did. And we weren't talking about Eck's alcoholism (which he has been open about in the past, if I recall correctly). We're talking about a specific situation in which Eck said a specific not-particularly-inappropriate-nor-innacurate word to describe a player's performance (which is his job) and then a Red Sox player staged a dramatic scene in which to chastise, mock, and embarrass Eck in front of the entire team.

    But you're probably right that it's about Price's skin color. That's great perspective.
    #166 rmaher, Jul 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  17. nothumb

    nothumb Member SoSH Member

    The team isn't dredging this up four weeks after the fact. Shaughnessy is. If this article is a distraction then blame the guy who sat on it waiting for a lousy Price start in order to maximize the effect.

    I really enjoy Eck as a commentator. I disagree with the Sox' apparent resentment of him, mainly because I think he's also one of the most enthusiastic commentators in giving praise when guys do well.

    But liking Eck and recognizing the racialized dimension of Shag's critique, and of the Boston media environment generally, are not mutually exclusive.

    To me, the worst person in all of this is Shag. I don't think Price or Farrell exactly come out smelling like roses either, but I'm not all that interested in parsing it from outside the clubhouse and feeding the media beast. If the team can rally together then it doesn't matter at all.
  18. cahlton

    cahlton Member SoSH Member

    You're confusing two separate issues here. Issue #1 is the event itself. Issue #2 is Shaughnessy's account of it.

    Is anyone saying that this confrontation happened because Eck is white and Price is black? If so, I'd disagree.

    What certain people, including me, are arguing is that

    1) Shaughnessy thought that the episode signified something and was therefore worth writing about; and
    2) that he thought it was important to characterize Eck in a particular way and Price and JBJ in a particular way.

    I'm curious what people are taking away from this story. What was the point, for Shaughnessy, of publishing it in the first place? Remember: He's not a reporter; he's a columnist.

    To me--and I know that many people on this board don't agree--it's pretty clear that this article, whether consciously or not, reinforces certain stereotypes Shaughnessy seems to have about black Red Sox players (and maybe black people in general): specifically, that they're sullen, untrustworthy, and emotionally unstable. They're all Carl Everett to him. Speaking of which, anyone here who wants to defend Shaughnessy against charges of witting or unwitting racism should take a look at his stories about Everett. They're shameful.

    Incidentally, I interviewed Carl Everett some years after he had left the Red Sox. Totally approachable, funny, generous guy. Nothing but friendly to a white reporter he'd never laid eyes on before. Makes you wonder.
  19. BJBossman

    BJBossman lurker

    If that's true.

    We don't even deserve this team.
  20. ricopetro6

    ricopetro6 lurker

    really?..don't see how anyone gets there from that column..
  21. Buzzkill Pauley

    Buzzkill Pauley Member SoSH Member

    Umm yeah. I guess. The problem is, none of the behaviors in the story actually matter much. So the story doesn't actually matter much. And that is why your words about it don't much matter, either, actually.

    This thread's contortions confirm that the media trolls waited for the darkness of a losing streak to pop out and manufacture "controversy" over stuff that's been going on all season. If there's any real problem revealed in this story at all, it's the pattern of subversive racism present in Dan Shaughnessy's body of work. But he knows on which side his bread is buttered as a sportswriter.

    A Sox team with high expectations is scuffling. The media knives come out. Shank writes about thin-skinned but highly paid black pitcher who doesn't like the media but has his teammates' backs. Shank also writes about a thin skinned black outfielder who doesn't like the media and doesn't smile like the team's young superstar. Oh, I know! Let's run a petty column or two giving them some comeuppance and call it not-racist because somehow the article didn't mention either cotton picking or watermelon! My human ears can't hear that dog whistle blow, anyway.

    Besides, if Lowe keeps closing out games, the Sox will surely at least win the Wild Card and have a chance, no matter how good the MFYs look.

    Wait, aren't we talking Shank, Carl, and Pedro? No?

    Isn't it still 2000? No?

    Oh well. Ho-hum.
  22. TonyPenaNeverJuiced

    TonyPenaNeverJuiced Member SoSH Member

    I think you're looking for some threshold that of course will not be found. Eck may spew a lot of word-salad, but he's not dumb enough to get on air and say anything other than his guttural musings - he's not gonna out-and-out attack someone. I'm suggesting this isn't about an instance of "unfair" harshness, it's about a pretty-consistent level of sniveling, pompousness, and passive-degradation that some of us constantly sense in Eck's commentary. Sure it plays well to the TV crowd, and sure, much of it is, at its emotional base, correct, but he's not Skip Bayless or some yammering head. He gets on the same plane, has to look a guy in the eye many days a year, and he's played the game at it's "elite level" as well as stunk a few times.

    A single columnist: a player can probably look past slights, most of the time. But, when the guy who is supposed to be the informed voice on the TV show that's the only way for the majority of your fans to follow the team, when that guy says your buddy's line was "yuck," when that guy is known for his lightly-unfiltered takes, even if they are just slights no matter how big or how minor, it might add up.
  23. curly2

    curly2 Member SoSH Member

    If you look at it that way, that should make the Sox more likely to intervene. I know every place where I've worked, if an employee got into a verbal altercation with another employee anywhere near that intense, they'd be dragged into HR in a second.
  24. Trautwein's Degree

    Trautwein's Degree a Connecticut bicycle attorney in General Motor's Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    David Price is a complete loser who deserves to pitch for the Padres. David Price has started 15 post season games in his career. His team's have won a grand total of 4 of those games. And of of their last 11 games. Why is he a loser? Because his team is in the hunt for a division title and he's concerned with what a NESN commentator is saying. This team sucks if they're backing Price. If they make the playoffs they won't go anywhere.
  25. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    OT: when did "Shag" offically replace "CHB"?

    (I liked the latter, cos I always read it as "Curly Haired Bastard"...)
  26. Curt S Loew

    Curt S Loew SoSH Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    See. CHB should have just written that. Save a lot of time.
  27. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

    Was about to ask this. He's Shank, not Shag.

    (And for clarification: CHB is "Curly Haired Boyfriend," not "bastard" tho the confusion is understandable)
  28. UncleStinkfinger

    UncleStinkfinger lurker

    Fair enough. Fwiw, I meant soft or spoiled. I'll edit.
  29. metacom

    metacom lurker

    Just got done reading this thread. I think that Price's conduct was childish. Taking a little criticism is part of the deal. Him saying that he's sticking up for a team mate is baloney. I don't think Eck is unfairly critical of anyone. Grow up Red Sox. You ought to be concentrating on scoring some runs rather than this kind of nonsense. It also brings up what kind of a leader John Farrell is. Not great in my estimation.
  30. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

    (1) It's funny that people are calling out Price for having an issue with Eckersley when he's obviously not the only player who feels this way. I mean it's been mentioned in passing that Pedroia has an issue with Eckersley too. Does that mean Pedroia is thin-skinned? And no matter what any of us know or don't know, there are clearly multiple Sox who have an issue with things that Eckersley has said and so this can't be a one-time thing.

    (2) "Yuck" is hardly going to win broadcast commentary awards.

    (3) Maybe people don't like David Price for whatever reason. I hear that Ubaldo Jimenez is the nicest, most respectful baseball player that most reporters have ever met. Maybe we should get him instead.
  31. absintheofmalaise

    absintheofmalaise too many flowers Dope SoSH Member

  32. MikeM

    MikeM Member SoSH Member

    My takeaways are that both Price/Bradley have their moments of immaturity, this story gets written about any perceived under-performing $217m player in Boston regardless of race, and apparently nobody outside of this thread likes Eck.
  33. curly2

    curly2 Member SoSH Member

    There's a difference between "having an issue" and pulling a total, tough-guy bully move putting Eckersley in a tough situation there was literally no way out of because they were on a plane.

    If I heard Price had a one-on-one with Eckersley in the clubhouse (and if Eck doesn't go into the clubhouse, Price could have set it up through the media department) it wouldn't bother me.

    I also find it really bad that having started it, Price wouldn't let Eckersley give his side.

    And the Ubaldo Jimenez thing is ludicrous.
  34. tbb345

    tbb345 Member SoSH Member

    I posted this at the time but I always found it peculiar that Price opened up to CHB for his "last interview with the media" while going after Drellich (who was basically Price's biggest defender in the media).

    I imagine Price is now realizing why CHB is the most hated columnist in Boston among athletes....
  35. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

    I've been on vacation so blissfully unaware of all this until logging in recently. There is some good food for thought here, though some speculation into what is in the key players' hearts and minds -- Price, Shank -- though thought-provoking is based on too little info for me at least.

    The part of it all that's so surprising is the suggestion and seemingly well-accepted view that Eck is critical and "blunt." I don't remember the stuff Rough mentions above, and my memory for commentary past sucks anyway so I can only go by my recent mental perceptions. From where I sit, he is an unabashed homer. He says things like, "come on Jackie, we need a hit." He loves the Red Sox. I get that homerism is now expected of tv crews in a way that is far more blatant than in the olden days, and while Eck is no Hawk, he desperately wants these guys to succeed.

    "Yuck" is so innocuous. It is just as likely an expression of disappointment when flashed the stats as it was any kind of critique. It probably was something like, "darn, I was hoping he would be throwing a no hitter tonight, we need him back." It's kind of the same reaction I had when I saw the line. "Rats" is probably what I thought. Sure, Eck will talk about pitches that were mistakes, but he mixes it with plenty of plain old feeling bad for the kids who make the mistakes, and I've never thought him to be overly superior about his own achievements. He goes out of his way to talk about players that had success against him.

    Remy has a more affable manner in general, but can be quite critical, especially of baserunning. I just don't get the idea that Eck should be the target of this kind of spite not just by one player but by several who applaud it. I also don't agree with the substantive part of what Price is reported to have said -- that Eck doesn't understand how hard the game is. Baloney he doesn't. Also, baloney that this is just Price protecting EdRo. If he said that -- and I actually trust the reporting here notwithstanding skepticism about the reporter's timing and motives -- you don't need to be Freud to know that Price is also talking about himself here. I don't like Price making excuses covered with a fig leaf of supposedly protecting a young player. Childish and thin skinned are the adjectives used most in this thread, which describe the vast majority of professional athletes. I don't know the right adjective here, but it's something maybe a little more troubling. (As is Rev's observation about what Farrell's response might clue us in to with respect to more significant on field or basebally matters.)

    As for some of the comments that "yuck" is bad commentary, I guess, but geez. This guy is filling in for a sick broadcaster and these are long games with a partner in DOB that is a bit formulaic and not easy to riff off in the first place. Eck isn't as good as Remy, especially Remy since 2015. But all this over "yuck"?
  36. grimshaw

    grimshaw the new rudy SoSH Member

    Merloni did mention yesterday that he had heard the same stuff that Shank had reported, though he threw in that there was also a hair comment directed at Eck, and that also some players were uncomfortable about the incident.
  37. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

    His "Yuck" wasn't necessarily meaning that the pitcher is the worst. He was just reacting to the numbers that popped up. They were not good numbers, so he said "yuck".

    I can't imagine there was any more thought or intent than that. Just like that time he read Youk's lips on national TV. He's just up there riffing.

    If the team is sitting there stewing over any of this, then they need to refocus on baseball.
  38. BroodsSexton

    BroodsSexton Member SoSH Member

    Who cares. They're both thin-skinned and pissing on each other, and this thread is Exhibit A as to why CHB/Shank/Shag writes stupid columns that generate eye clicks. Play ball. Call the games. Stop it. All of you stop it right now.
  39. InsideTheParker

    InsideTheParker Member SoSH Member

    Thanks for this thoughtful long post. I didn't want to quote it all, but I agree with every word.
  40. ricopetro6

    ricopetro6 lurker

    don't mess with Eck's hair...
  41. joyofsox

    joyofsox empty, bleak Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Thinking about this some more -- Price didn't stand up for Rodriguez at all, at least as far as what has been reported. He made a sarcastic comment to Eck and when Eck tried to reply, Price told him to F Off. (Twice.)

    If Price had asked Eck what he was trying to accomplish by saying that about Rodriguez, if Price said he and his teammates are sick of Eck's on-air criticisms, or if Price had explained why Eck's comment was unfair, I think it would have been in the Globe's report. But according to the story, Price did not actually mention Eck's specific comment and refused to have an actual discussion (or argument). It seems like an extremely weak defense of a fellow pitcher, if you can call it a defense at all.
  42. ricopetro6

    ricopetro6 lurker

    except that Remy is better part:)..he adds no insight IMO. How many times must we hear the difference between a suicide and safety squeeze with a guy on 3B, or the bat angle on a bunt..that's all he has.
  43. brandonchristensen

    brandonchristensen mad photochops SoSH Member

  44. rundugrun

    rundugrun lurker

  45. cornwalls@6

    [email protected] Member SoSH Member

    Caught most of Farrell's weekly appearance on D,H,& K. Didn't deny, or even clarify, or have an issue with Shank's story. Which is troubling on 2 levels: That repugnant troll actually did some reporting and got this story right. Yuck. And apparently Farrell has no problem with this kind of childish, thin skinned, focused on the wrong things behavior by Price and others on this ball club. Maybe even actively supports it. And while none of this rises to level of crime against humanity that many in talk radio and on these imbecilic CSNNE talk shows act like it does. And if the club gets hot again, this will all be quickly forgotten. It does, I think, speak to Farrell's lack of leadership, and to this club a having a weird, immature, hyper sensitive locker room culture.
  46. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

    Apparently......maybe .....
    Or, what he says on radio is not what he said in private. Or maybe it is.
  47. nothumb

    nothumb Member SoSH Member

    Pretty terrible article, and that's coming from someone who would have loved to agree with it.

    This reporter sounds like he thinks JF has the same obligation to be "tough" in defense of Eck as he would in defense of his players. Tons of false equicalencies throughout.
  48. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Interesting--I went the opposite direction. Basically, I feel like this whole thing could have been quashed with a well timed, "Hey, knock it off." That that didn't and hasn't happened suggests a bad vibe to me, and quashing bad vibes might well be the manager's most important job.

    If this happened after a loss, Farrell should have pulled out the, "Is losing fun?" speech from Moneyball when he heard the applause.

  49. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Farrell was on WEEI and did not dispute any of Shank's column so the notion that this is a hit piece is nonsense.
  50. sean1562

    sean1562 Member SoSH Member

    i hope devers comes up and hits two home runs tonight so we can all start talking about something else.
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