The amazing thing is IT literally lost a tooth and barely complained. Oubre acted like it was the cheap shot of the century. From the few times I've watched the play, there seemed to be no intent from KO. He literally is a horse on skates.
Round 2 Celtics vs. Wizards
- Thread starter smastroyin
- Start date
I think it was the fact that KO hit him high on two screens in something like 3 possessions that sent Oubre off. I thought at the time the first screen was less legal than the second one, which is why I wasn't surprised that KO got called for the second one.
It wasn't the screen that was hard....it was that Olynyk's forearm was up around HIS shoulder and head area of Oubre. Per the rule a screen cannot cause undue contact. I'm guessing the officials interpretation of contact above the shoulder/neck area of Oubre justifies the personal foul.
Do basketball players (I never played more than pickup) generally set their arms where they expect a player's chest to be on screens, for maximum leverage? I wonder if it's one of those things where KO expected the Wizards to call out the screen, and Oubre to straighten up. When they didn't, Oubre plowed into him with his head/neck at arm level. So it looks cheap to the casual observer when really, KO is just doing what years of experience have taught him to do based on how he expects the play to unfold, and when Washington fucks up he ends up looking like the bad guy.
I wouldn't call it a cheap shot as I don't believe there was any intent to injure. Olynyk can get away with that play if he was set OR if he kept his forearm below his own shoulder. In this case, Olynyk was moving AND had his forearm high. Officiating isn't an exact science especially at this level with the speed of the game and technique matters when it comes to avoiding fouls. It was simply a poorly executed screen no matter how you slice it. Not dirty though imo.
Definition of insanity is to do the same thing repeatedly and expect a different result. Down 8-0 early.
So much for coaching prodigy. Don't want to hear that crap anymore.
So much for coaching prodigy. Don't want to hear that crap anymore.
Never mind - not worth piling on as I am sure you see how foolish that looked in retrospect.
I'm increasingly thinking Wizards will win this series 4-3, or even 4-2, if Boston has some bad breaks in their next home game. I thought that after the Celts were up 2-0, but it sounded too pessimistic at the time to post. The Wizards have been dominant at home over the Celtics all season long, and nothing's really changed in the playoffs. The Wizards meanwhile can play the C's close enough in Boston to take one of those two games. Last night's game was a mess, with those dumb behind-the-back passes by Smart and Thomas bouncing off Wizards players, like outtakes from a Globetrotters' tryout. Still, when John Wall comes out ice cold, and the Wizards are turning over the ball a lot, and the Celtics are hitting threes, and the best they can manage is a tie at halftime ... I don't think that bodes well.
On the bright side, as a fan, I think two positive takeaways from the series will be: (1) The emergence of Terry Rozier. Love watching this guy on the court; he's electric. Glad he didn't get moved in a trade as a minor piece. (2) Danny's getting a really good look at the Celtics' weaknesses against top competition. The off season should be interesting.
On the bright side, as a fan, I think two positive takeaways from the series will be: (1) The emergence of Terry Rozier. Love watching this guy on the court; he's electric. Glad he didn't get moved in a trade as a minor piece. (2) Danny's getting a really good look at the Celtics' weaknesses against top competition. The off season should be interesting.
I think game 5 at home is just about a must win for them. If they win it in convincing fashion (not a blowout, which I don't see happening, but just a game where they play consistently well throughout and don't give up a huge run), then a game 7 win seems like a possibility for them. If they drop it, it doesn't get back to Boston.
Yes, both of these. Unless Rozier ends up being a piece (not a throw in) in a deal, I think that at the very least one of Bradley or Smart will be gone.
When the Celtics dropped those two games with Chicago, I thought that the team was a wreck careening down the hill and Stevens was doing a masterful job of keeping the wheels on. After they won the series and took the first two from the Wizards, my view changed to Stevens tinkering and adjusting so that the team was actually solidifying and becoming a well-oiled machine with each passing game.
Obviously, we're back to option one again. It doesn't take away from Stevens as a coach all that much, given the roster he has to work with, but it looks like the wheels are coming off. IT bailed them out in game 2 and it's been shaky since then.
Obviously, we're back to option one again. It doesn't take away from Stevens as a coach all that much, given the roster he has to work with, but it looks like the wheels are coming off. IT bailed them out in game 2 and it's been shaky since then.
C's were fortunate to be up 2-0. Wiz could have won one or both of those games while you can't say the same for the C's abot games 3-4. So yeha game 5 is a must win
Yes, we need some size! The next time Horford grabs a contested rebound over a real center (see gortat or Lopez for example) then I'm willing to consider him as something other than a PF(and I like him as a 4 for the record). It's taking a real toll and I don't think it's in my head: watching Les Bullets snatch second chance after second chance rebounds had a palpably deflating effect on the Cs.
Tough to have too high expectations for Zizic / Yabooty next year. If one or both had any shot at helping this year, they would have beaten out Young / Jackson / Mickey for a spot on the 15-man.
It's not easy to find some size to bang down low that can also hit the open 3 on offense. But, that will be the task, especially if 1-3 of Amir, KO, Jerebko are gone next year.
I get the feeling that Johnson is playing hurt and the more rest he gets the more it'll help. He looked slightly more mobile to me (but still slightly gimpy) early in the last game and less so later. I though Brad should have just held him out of this series entirely and given more minutes to Jerebko to hopefully get him recovered enough for the Cavs. As it turned out that would've helped the team too because Amir's been a huge negative when on the floor.
Overall, getting eliminated by the Wiz was about what I expected going into the playoffs and still consider this season a success if that's what happens. If we get to the Cavs that would be a huge confidence-builder / validation for this team.
It's not easy to find some size to bang down low that can also hit the open 3 on offense. But, that will be the task, especially if 1-3 of Amir, KO, Jerebko are gone next year.
I get the feeling that Johnson is playing hurt and the more rest he gets the more it'll help. He looked slightly more mobile to me (but still slightly gimpy) early in the last game and less so later. I though Brad should have just held him out of this series entirely and given more minutes to Jerebko to hopefully get him recovered enough for the Cavs. As it turned out that would've helped the team too because Amir's been a huge negative when on the floor.
Overall, getting eliminated by the Wiz was about what I expected going into the playoffs and still consider this season a success if that's what happens. If we get to the Cavs that would be a huge confidence-builder / validation for this team.
Biggest adjustment for the next game is... they need to not turn the ball over. Marcus obviously was the culprit two games ago. IT in the third quarter last night.
In my panic last night, I found myself wondering if maybe Rozier's excellent garbage time minutes were a sign that Stevens has to at least try putting Rozier next to IT4 for stretches. The idea being that this team can't just pass the ball around the perimeter and jack up contested threes, they need to get open ones off the dribble, and the only person who I could see creating those shots off the dribble is Rozier.
Of course, once I actually thought about it, I realized I was almost certainly being delusional. Rozier can get himself into trouble around the hoop (much like Marcus can) -- I was just delighted to discover he's even worse than Marcus at finishing around the rim (44% v 41%) -- and while at least he cans open threes, he's a much worse defender. My other panic thought was Brown, but the guy just does not have the handles yet. If Isaiah was folding under the defensive pressure, Brown will be a paper crane.
I'm not trying to be pessimistic. But the Wizards have done a superb job of keeping Isaiah from even shooting, and when the Celtics have asked the other starting players to step up, they have failed miserably. The best option might be to run the offense through Horford a lot more: either at the top of the key, or on the block, and run Thomas off screens.
But the turnovers were not actually the problem. The Wizards actually turned the ball over more than the Celtics. The difference was with what the Wizards did with turnovers: we got killed on the fast break. The Wizards scored 25 fucking points on the fast break. I looked closely at the third quarter run and there were three instances of Wizards players just outrunning a Celtics defense that was jogging back.
There's the other problem: Wall, Beal and Porter are just a better fast-break trio than Thomas, Bradley, and Crowder. The last two can't dribble or pass, so.
Of course, we also got killed on second-chance points, but that problem probably just isn't fixable.
In my panic last night, I found myself wondering if maybe Rozier's excellent garbage time minutes were a sign that Stevens has to at least try putting Rozier next to IT4 for stretches. The idea being that this team can't just pass the ball around the perimeter and jack up contested threes, they need to get open ones off the dribble, and the only person who I could see creating those shots off the dribble is Rozier.
Of course, once I actually thought about it, I realized I was almost certainly being delusional. Rozier can get himself into trouble around the hoop (much like Marcus can) -- I was just delighted to discover he's even worse than Marcus at finishing around the rim (44% v 41%) -- and while at least he cans open threes, he's a much worse defender. My other panic thought was Brown, but the guy just does not have the handles yet. If Isaiah was folding under the defensive pressure, Brown will be a paper crane.
I'm not trying to be pessimistic. But the Wizards have done a superb job of keeping Isaiah from even shooting, and when the Celtics have asked the other starting players to step up, they have failed miserably. The best option might be to run the offense through Horford a lot more: either at the top of the key, or on the block, and run Thomas off screens.
But the turnovers were not actually the problem. The Wizards actually turned the ball over more than the Celtics. The difference was with what the Wizards did with turnovers: we got killed on the fast break. The Wizards scored 25 fucking points on the fast break. I looked closely at the third quarter run and there were three instances of Wizards players just outrunning a Celtics defense that was jogging back.
There's the other problem: Wall, Beal and Porter are just a better fast-break trio than Thomas, Bradley, and Crowder. The last two can't dribble or pass, so.
Of course, we also got killed on second-chance points, but that problem probably just isn't fixable.
I mentioned Zizic only because he is a potential long-term solution to the size problem, not because of what he can do now.
I didn't read the game thread so this may not be contributing anything new here, but yesterday Crowder's and Bradley's inability to hit open shots was a huge problem. I've seldom seen both of them hit as many bricks as they hit yesterday. Unless someone not named IT can shoot, it's a lost cause. I remain optimistic that Crowder and Bradley can play better in Boston, and that the Celtics can win both home games against Washington before having their doors blown off by Cleveland.
I didn't read the game thread so this may not be contributing anything new here, but yesterday Crowder's and Bradley's inability to hit open shots was a huge problem. I've seldom seen both of them hit as many bricks as they hit yesterday. Unless someone not named IT can shoot, it's a lost cause. I remain optimistic that Crowder and Bradley can play better in Boston, and that the Celtics can win both home games against Washington before having their doors blown off by Cleveland.
This is righ ton the nose. And it gives me hope for game 5. They should be able to tighten up and not turn the all over.
It has been mentioned before ut either guy was markedly better from 3 they would be on another strata and maybe you can't afford both.
This was one of the opponents where having home court was a tremendous advantage due to the Wizards struggles on the road both during the regular season and in Atlanta during the first round. One way to view this series is that no matter what happens in DC the Wizards have to win a game in Boston to win the series.
Sure, the Wizards "could" have won one of those first two games and they will have at least one opportunity to do so in Boston (probably two). I wouldn't say the wheels are falling off as the Wizards at home are lethal......but they still need to win one in Boston which isn't an easy task for that team. On the road, Wall needs someone to step up with him which hasn't happened much on the road in these playoffs.
Of course, better matchups to begin the game could make it even more difficult. Still calling for this and not understanding Brad's thought process here at all.
The Wizards have real good ball movement and Wall's ability to break down the defense to force rotations/switches have a huge impact in allowing them to get to the rim as it places us out of rebounding position much like when Rondo played in those first two games. You are likely correct that this will continue to be an issue as long as Wall is on the floor.
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I think a Wizards fan could have written this exact same post on the Sons of Jeff Bullard on May 3.
The thing that I can never remember seeing anywhere is the extreme runs that Boston has let Washington have. 10-2, 12-4, 18-6 -- those are the kind of big runs I would expect. But 16-0, 23-0, etc -- yikes.
Yup - brings back bad memories from my HS playing career. Runs happen all of the time in the NBA but those multiple goose egg 15+ runs are pretty rare for a top team. I know we're not a "real" #1 seed but come on already.
Looks like Isaiah has already mentioned the Wizards' constant grabbing. Good. Keep that fresh in the refs' minds.
It's hard to even get too riled up about these types of offensive boards. Generally, you're not keeping Wall out of the paint, so the big has done a good job if A) Wall doesn't hit a layup and B) hasn't been able to find the cutting big for an easy bucket. At that point you're relying on either Wall's small defender to recover and help rebound (over Gortat) or whoever is covering Porter way out in the corner to rotate down quickly to help out, or a fortuitous bounce to the big who helped on Wall in the first place and forced the miss. The C's are undersized and under-athletic in most lineups so it's tough.
The rebounds on long jumpers are the ones that are hypothetically fixable in this series by better gang rebounding (but long-term only by taller and more athletic players).
"He’s dirty. Dirty player, man. I don’t respect guys like that," Green said. "I mean, I know he’s not like the greatest basketball player of all time, so maybe you feel like you got to like do that, but you don’t like — just dirty. Like I don’t respect that man, he dirty.” Draymond Green on KO
Amazing that it gets easier and easier to be a Lebron fan.
Amazing that it gets easier and easier to be a Lebron fan.
Draymond hasn't kicked anyone yet this season so there is that.
Look, I really like Olynyk, I love Draymond (my favorite non-Celtic NBA player) but they each have a reputation. And at this point, it's hard to argue that it's undeserved in either case.
To be clear, I don't think Olynyk is nearly as bad as Draymond but you are fooling yourself if the reputation he has is a result of him being unlucky or clumsy.
Edit: I will never be able to root for LeBron under any circumstances. I respect him and to me he is the GOAT but I cannot root for him.
Look, I really like Olynyk, I love Draymond (my favorite non-Celtic NBA player) but they each have a reputation. And at this point, it's hard to argue that it's undeserved in either case.
To be clear, I don't think Olynyk is nearly as bad as Draymond but you are fooling yourself if the reputation he has is a result of him being unlucky or clumsy.
Edit: I will never be able to root for LeBron under any circumstances. I respect him and to me he is the GOAT but I cannot root for him.
No NBA player is clumsy, I agree. These are all elite athletes. He's not a clueless buffoon out there (same for Draymond's lame excuses). However, he's just an easy guy to target because of the highly publicized Love freak injury during a foul that probably happens every other game without harm 99% of the time. People know they can pick on him because, well, he's Kelly and not dwade.
As for rooting interests. I hope the Warriors win if they play the Cavs, just so I can watch Lebron fanboys talk about how unfair it is to put together a super-team.
Until then cheer against both.
Until then cheer against both.
I simply hope both collapse in spectacular fashion. They are the enemy, period.
One of the things that's pretty obvious (and this is no revelation, as it's been true for years) is that you simply don't get the ticky-tack foul calls in the playoffs that you do in the regular season. IT has been otherworldly this year, and his performance in light of his personal tragedy and then the oral surgery really has been phenomenal. Nevertheless, there's no doubt that he's looking to get bailed out almost each time he goes to the basket or over a screen. Yes, he's being held. Yes, he's being banged around, but he has to start distributing more rather than looking to throw up every conceivable shot in his arsenal. He's not getting calls when he just throws up a runner or falls to the ground trying to split double teams. He's not getting the call when he goes into a big and throws up a wild no chance shot. If the ball doesn't start to move more for the celtics, then they are dead in the water. And I say this recognizing that IT's crazy game 2 performance was all IT all the time.
I'm not sure this is the case. IT got plenty of questionable calls in the CHI series and earlier in this WAS series. He has gone to the line double digit times in 6 out of 10 playoff games. He averaged more FT attempts per game in the CHI series than he did during the regular season (and this includes his zero attmepts in game 3).
From my view, he was just ridiculously out of control and made many, many bad decisions with the ball in game 4. Sure, he may have gotten whacked a few times, but his own play was much more of a factor than any non-calls by the officials.
Part of the reason he was out of control was he was grabbed or bumped on almost every play... with almost 0 calls. Whoever is saying ticky tack calls aren't made in the playoffs was not watching Wall go to the basket the past two games.
Celts played horribly but the officiating last game in the third quarter especially was atrociously one sided. Gortat is allowed to throw people around on both sides.. especially grabbing on screens and pick and rolls. The offense is having trouble, but part of the reason is because movement is literally restricted.
Gortat also shoved KO on several rebounds and one of the first times KO did the same he was called for it.
I'm ok with physical if the refs allow both teams to play the same way...and last two games they didn't. I get home advantage but I don't feel like the Celts get much of one outside of IT. It is a star's league though.
Agreed 100% on this. When you are playing out of control the officials recognize this and you rarely get the benefit of the 50/50 call (which is what many calls are anyway)......unless you're Hayward on that corner fallaway against the shot clock last night when Curry got whistled for a foul. The best at getting to the line are always in control of their body and how to create contact off the angles they generate.....LeBron, Wade, Pierce, DeRozan, Dirk, Carmelo, Ginobili, Iso Joe, etc
Brad has to change the starting lineup for Wednesday right? I know the start was decent in game four, but you could easily look at the start of the third quarter and the same unit was a disaster. It's clear Amir is not the answer, his lack of athleticism seems to stand out against the Wiz, and he is a total zero on offense.
I would like to roll the dice on Jaylen Brown's length and athleticism - let's just see what it looks like with the starters. Can it really be any worse than what has been put out there thus far? I understand not playing that card on the road - that might be too much to ask. But at home, I think it's a worthwhile gamble that some energy plays early on might go a long way.
My fear is that they will go with Jerebko instead. That is what they did last year in a kind of similar spot.
I would like to roll the dice on Jaylen Brown's length and athleticism - let's just see what it looks like with the starters. Can it really be any worse than what has been put out there thus far? I understand not playing that card on the road - that might be too much to ask. But at home, I think it's a worthwhile gamble that some energy plays early on might go a long way.
My fear is that they will go with Jerebko instead. That is what they did last year in a kind of similar spot.
Well if decent is digging an 8-0 hole in the first 3 minutes.....sadly this was our best start of the series with Green/Amir being targeted from tipoff. The rookie on the road thing is overplayed imo. We wouldn't have been asking a lot out of Jaylen to where there is pressure on him. There was MUCH more pressure on Dejounte Murray in his two starts on the road in Houston as the PG with Patrick Beverly in his face for 94 feet yet he performed admirably when Popovich placed his trust in him and not asking him to do anything more than stay within himself.
Not that it matters but NBA Twitter has been discussing it since the Kelly vs Kelly happened.
Brown has looked bad on defending ball screen's in his few garbage time assignments. I doubt I spotted the reason, but there must be a some reason they think he has more to learn to be ready to get thrown not the playoff fire. I expect it is something defensive, since they can put up with him on O.
Brad announces no changes to the starting lineup for Game 5. We need more Amir like we need more cowbell.
At this point I'm done whining about it but he better have a quick hook. This team needs a fast start.
Actually how they start is largely irrelevant aside from our nerves. All we should care about is that they finish with more points than Washington when the game ends.