I'm not depressed because I get to watch Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum dominate the NBA for a goodly part of the '20s. Let's not take it for granted that a number 3 pick is going to be a grand slam. Ainge managed to get the best player of the 2017 draft in Tatum, and Romeo Langford, out of the Sixers for them to have the chance to take Fultz.Pretty depressing list. It's also a year off for some reason. I'm guessing most teams lists are just as depressing.
https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/offseason-062118-full-celtics-draft-history-during-brad-stevens-era
Last year you have Robert Williams. Anyone else?
The best 2nd round pick in the Brad Stevens era is currently Semi Ojeleye. He's actually the best pick from 17 on. Rozier was 16th in 2015.
I think some might have considered it a slight reach. Here's a site that had him #18 or #23. I looked at about four mock drafts a while ago that had him between #13 and #20.Was the Celtics grabbing Langford at #14 seen as a reach, or was #14 about where he was expected to go?
Coming out of high school he was mocked in the 4-8 range. The year at Indiana took the shine off, and largely due to the shooting.I think some might have considered it a slight reach. Here's a site that had him #18 or #23. I looked at about four mock drafts a while ago that had him between #13 and #20.
I've been a bit negative about him in the past, but was quite impressed by his Charlotte performance, mainly on D. He's got a nice wingspan and was able to stay in front of the player he was guarding pretty well. Just have my fingers crossed he can stay injury-free.
This is spot on. Just consider what Phoenix has done with their near-the-top-of-the-draft picks the last five years (except for Ayton, who was a no brainer #1). Bender, Jackson, and Chriss (via trade).Danny nailed the franchise altering decisions when he had the #3 and #1 pick
Jon Lester.Who was the Lester on the Celtics not long ago? Hudson?
Yep. Guys taken after the lottery and in the second round don't have great hit rates. Guys taken really high aren't guarantees either. But Ainge nailed the top picks, three of them in short time.This is spot on. Just consider what Phoenix has done with their near-the-top-of-the-draft picks the last five years (except for Ayton, who was a no brainer #1). Bender, Jackson, and Chriss (via trade).
You can even argue that Ayton was a miss given what Doncic has turned out to be.This is spot on. Just consider what Phoenix has done with their near-the-top-of-the-draft picks the last five years (except for Ayton, who was a no brainer #1). Bender, Jackson, and Chriss (via trade).
Yay! The invasion is coming!This thread needs a better title at this point.
Leaving aside the plays on his first name as being too obvious, my nomination is:
Romeo 2020: Blessent mon coeur d'une Langford monotone
(reference)
So far (one game is all it hot-takes ) Romeo's ceiling is a poor man's Clyde Drexler. Romeo's athleticism may not be explosive, but it is smooth to the point of feline. He has definitely got the Glide. He has a slightly different but equally dodgy release from distance, he is smaller, but almost as long, and the game slows down for him.Here's the complete analysis of the first round from 1980 to 2016: https://www.thebackofclass.com/home/2017/9/4/a-complete-analysis-of-the-nba-draft.
Apparently there are 4 players draft #14 who were All-Stars, and they totaled 20 All-Star seasons. The best player ever drafted #14 is Clyde Drexler. In the 1980s, in addition to Drexler, there were several very good players drafted. Here's the list: Tim Hardaway; Dan Majerle; Tellis Frank; Walter Berry; Alfredrick Hughes; Michael Cage; Drexler; Lester Conner; Herb Williams; and Wes Matthews.
Since then, there hasn't been much.
Hopefully Romeo breaks that streak.
It’s depressing for everyone.Pretty depressing list. It's also a year off for some reason. I'm guessing most teams lists are just as depressing.
https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/offseason-062118-full-celtics-draft-history-during-brad-stevens-era
Last year you have Robert Williams. Anyone else?
The best 2nd round pick in the Brad Stevens era is currently Semi Ojeleye. He's actually the best pick from 17 on. Rozier was 16th in 2015.
Wrt the bolded, it may be the case that the Celtics have gotten “luckier” in the draft as they’ve developed more of an organizational identity and have better young players to set the culture.Red Auerbach’s superior eye for talent gave the C’s an edge for decades, but those days are long, long gone. I’m convinced it’s not possible anymore to have a sustainable competitive advantage in amateur scouting. For sure, we occasionally see a savvy move (Tatum over Fultz, Westbrook over Love), but the draft is largely a crapshoot; superior results that aren’t purely luck are more likely to be due to better development of draftees than better talent evaluation.
Totally.Wrt the bolded, it may be the case that the Celtics have gotten “luckier” in the draft as they’ve developed more of an organizational identity and have better young players to set the culture.
I’m comfortable saying that while Tatum would have good counting stats and a good offensive game, he wouldn’t have become nearly the defensive player he is playing in Phoenix or Sacramento or LA, at least not this fast.Totally.
I mean, it can be overstated. Tatum would be a rising star wherever he was playing; if he played for a shitty team, he’d have gaudy counting stats and might actually be more highly regarded. But I don’t think Jaylen or Smart would be the players they are if they had been drafted by, say, the Knicks or the Suns.
Not the thread you are referring to but here's the thread on DA's second round picks:There’s a thread on the forum from a couple years back (before it was clear that Tatum/Brown/Smart were big wins), and even at that time the Celtics were around average drafters.
I disagree, if only in the recent past case of San Antonio. They largely built around their drafting of foreign players. They've gone away from that a bit recently - I don't know if they've lost/replaced some of the scouts responsible for those drafts, or if it is as you say a loss of "advantage"... but they managed it for quite some time.Red Auerbach’s superior eye for talent gave the C’s an edge for decades, but those days are long, long gone. I’m convinced it’s not possible anymore to have a sustainable competitive advantage in amateur scouting. For sure, we occasionally see a savvy move (Tatum over Fultz, Westbrook over Love), but the draft is largely a crapshoot; superior results that aren’t purely luck are more likely to be due to better development of draftees than better talent evaluation.
1. Other teams caught on to the foreign player ineffiency.I disagree, if only in the recent past case of San Antonio. They largely built around their drafting of foreign players. They've gone away from that a bit recently - I don't know if they've lost/replaced some of the scouts responsible for those drafts, or if it is as you say a loss of "advantage"... but they managed it for quite some time.
I think that DA took a bit of a page from the Belichick book as well and does evaluate players somewhat more holistically. Coachability, work ethic, love for the game, etc. are useful in evaluating a bunch of 18/19yo kids that have similar 5 star backgrounds.Totally.
I mean, it can be overstated. Tatum would be a rising star wherever he was playing; if he played for a shitty team, he’d have gaudy counting stats and might actually be more highly regarded. But I don’t think Jaylen or Smart would be the players they are if they had been drafted by, say, the Knicks or the Suns.
I think it was ESPN who have their athletic comps based on height, weight, length, vertical, etc. and for Langford the most similar player in their database was Jason Richardson. He definitely graded out as an explosive athlete.So far (one game is all it hot-takes ) Romeo's ceiling is a poor man's Clyde Drexler. Romeo's athleticism may not be explosive, but it is smooth to the point of feline. He has definitely got the Glide. He has a slightly different but equally dodgy release from distance, he is smaller, but almost as long, and the game slows down for him.
Denver and Toronto, at similar spots as the C's, are the models to copy for picking and young player development.Pretty depressing list. It's also a year off for some reason. I'm guessing most teams lists are just as depressing.
https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/offseason-062118-full-celtics-draft-history-during-brad-stevens-era
Last year you have Robert Williams. Anyone else?
The best 2nd round pick in the Brad Stevens era is currently Semi Ojeleye. He's actually the best pick from 17 on. Rozier was 16th in 2015.
I like this.I think that DA took a bit of a page from the Belichick book as well and does evaluate players somewhat more holistically. Coachability, work ethic, love for the game, etc. are useful in evaluating a bunch of 18/19yo kids that have similar 5 star backgrounds.
Not that the drafting team's culture and development philosophy isn't important--it certainly is--but the culture of the draftee is also important IMO and discoverable to an extent.
Nice article, definitely adds some personality context as to why he might have played through injury at Indiana.Looking for something else, found this nice article on Romeo from his high schools days, which were all of, what 18 months ago? https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/03/31/romeo-langfords-basketball-decision-molded-indiana-childhood-new-albany-mcdonalds-game/471593002/ Opening paragraphs:
The Langford family stood in disbelief, in amazement in the hallway of their modest home.Romeo Langford was oblivious to what had just happened. He’d been running through the hall when a mini basketball landed at his feet.He scooped it up in his 4-year-old hands and he shot it toward the goal hanging on the door at the end of the hall.Swish. It went in, from 12 feet away. Fluke.Do it again Romeo, his sisters squealed. Swish. Again. Swish. Again Swish. Again. Swish. Again. Swish. Again. Swish. Again. Swish. Again. Swish. Again. Swish. Again.He missed his eleventh shot.
I was a big Ronnie Lester fan in college. Those Big Ten matchups with the Buckeyes and Kelvin Ransey were epic decades ago.Jon Lester.
Bringing it back to Romeo, as I mentioned above Lester the Molester was picked #14. Being the Pacific NW in the early 80s, he was a really fun player to follow.I was a big Ronnie Lester fan in college. Those Big Ten matchups with the Buckeyes and Kelvin Ransey were epic decades ago.
Exactly. Placing importance in your organization on a development strategy AND picking kids that can be and want to be developed are two separate and equally important things, to paraphrase Law and Order.On the whole, I think people have little clue what the ceiling or floor is for 19-20yr old kids. It's great if the kid has a wingspan 2" longer then normal, but if his work ethic and attitude are sub-par then it makes development really tricky. ALL of these kids drafted have been the stars of their HS, AAU, NCAA teams, if they can't handle being the 15th-man on the roster and looking to improve every day/summer in the gym, weight room, diet, video room, G-League, etc then they will never approach their ceiling.
Basically, how a team develops a prospect is just as important as analyzing 19yr talents since they still have many years before reaching their peak potential.
They have Romeo playing on the baseline because there's only so many guys that can run the PnR each game. But as this MassLive article points out, Romeo's strongest attribute in terms of NBA may be his ability to run the PnR.Even with Hayward back, Langford got good minutes today off the bench (20, compared with only 7 for Semi). They don't run plays for him, so he didn't put up numbers, but Brad seems comfortable with his defense. In offensive sets, he's usually set up on the weak side baseline, and he had one nice play from there - getting in to win a battle for a long rebound of a missed shot and then calmly taking it to the hoop and scoring in traffic. Similar to a play he made a couple of games ago. He's got some sound instincts.
In the role they’re currently using him in, he’s basically non-jacked Semi, with the ability to get more blocks and steals due to the length.Thing with Langford is they really don't have anyone else like him off the bench, do they? If you squint, maybe Green.
My initial take on Romeo after he was drafted and reading a lot about his time at Indiana were that his two major flaws were his poor outside shooting and his lack of defensive effort/IQ. I feel like both of those things can be reasonably ironed out in the Celtic's system, especially if you consider that Indiana was kind of a mess when he was there. He isn't the first young kid to come into the NBA with a questionable jumper, and hopefully he can refine it the way Jaylen (and countless other guys) did over their first few seasons. I think with his defense, playing in a professional system with a lot of experienced defenders playing with you is very different than what he was doing at Indiana. With more time in the pros, and even in Maine, I can see the issues with his defensive IQ diminishing.In the role they’re currently using him in, he’s basically non-jacked Semi, with the ability to get more blocks and steals due to the length.
Obviously as he starts getting worked into the rotation more you’re right, he becomes Defense JaVonte.
I wonder how much of this is his normal mental
makeup defensively and how much is him adjusting his approach during the injury and just wanting to do anything to get on the floor. Either way, I’ll take it.
Yeah, you'd just have to think Romeo has more of an offensive game than Semi because it would be hard not to. That's not really a shot on Semi either. He's fine in his role. Langford might already be better than Green so while they may be similar, they are similar in the sense a $20 bill is similar to a $1 bill.In the role they’re currently using him in, he’s basically non-jacked Semi, with the ability to get more blocks and steals due to the length.
Obviously as he starts getting worked into the rotation more you’re right, he becomes Defense JaVonte.
I wonder how much of this is his normal mental
makeup defensively and how much is him adjusting his approach during the injury and just wanting to do anything to get on the floor. Either way, I’ll take it.
Based on his getting 20 minutes even with Hayward back, I think the Celtics agree. Even with Smart there, and with Hayward playing 30-35 minutes instead of 26, once you factor in random injuries and planned rest during the rest of the year, there should be 10-25 minutes available for him basically every night if he's healthy.Health permitting, I think Langford should be done with Maine and that the Cs should find 10-15 minutes a game for him to play.
Just replacing most of Edwards and Green's minutes would get Langford to 15. Semi's minutes have also dropped in the last 3 games from 18 to 11 to 7.Based on his getting 20 minutes even with Hayward back, I think the Celtics agree. Even with Smart there, and with Hayward playing 30-35 minutes instead of 26, once you factor in random injuries and planned rest during the rest of the year, there should be 10-25 minutes available for him basically every night if he's healthy.
No need to just think it. Langford has played 67 NBA minutes. In that time, he has flashed more offensive skill than Semi will ever have. Langford can drive, evade the big in the paint, and get off a good layup or floater. That's more than Semi can do.Yeah, you'd just have to think Romeo has more of an offensive game than Semi because it would be hard not to.
He's actually flashed more defensive skill than Semi, even given Semi's prenaturally quick feet.No need to just think it. Langford has played 67 NBA minutes. In that time, he has flashed more offensive skill than Semi will ever have. Langford can drive, evade the big in the paint, and get off a good layup or floater. That's more than Semi can do.
Me too and I doubt the Celtics will deal him. They have a chance to build something special here with all these good young players. While competing hard for a Championship this season, they are setting themselves up for a half-decade run of Championship caliber basketball if they just develop their own/acquired draft picks. They possibly view Romeo/Grant as replacing Hayward next year/or the season after. Both guys are being given rope/minutes to "learn on the job" which is the right way to develop them. I'd expect with the schedule getting more intense, starters will get rest and we'll see more of them.I am super excited to watch him develop. I hope the Cs don't trade him.
There’s no reason to be giving Wanamaker big minutes. Romeo has shown more defensive ability than Brad by a lot and has enough offensive ability to not be a black hole. Whether the Celtics are the 2 seed or the 4 seed is not very consequential (and is unlikely to be decided by how Brad manages these minutes). But what is consequential is developing Romeo for the future: both future years as well as the playoffs this year. He’s plausibility better than Wanamaker now and certainly could be a real upgrade by May. With Smart and Hayward there’s no reason to play Brad 20 mins a game in most games. 5 should suffice.Smart coming back is going to move the Semi/Romeo/Green slot to 10th in the rotation, if everyone above them stays healthy. Brad could use Smart more as a PG and cut some Wanamaker minutes if he wants more minutes from one of those guys. After an excellent November of 9 ppg in 20 minutes on 52/43% shooting, Wana has crashed to 6 ppg in 21 minutes on 36/31% shooting.
From 1/3 to 2/13 the Celtics play 23 games over 42 daysSmart coming back is going to move the Semi/Romeo/Green slot to 10th in the rotation, if everyone above them stays healthy. Brad could use Smart more as a PG and cut some Wanamaker minutes if he wants more minutes from one of those guys. After an excellent November of 9 ppg in 20 minutes on 52/43% shooting, Wana has crashed to 6 ppg in 21 minutes on 36/31% shooting.
Good point. By my quick count, 15 of those games are against sub .500 teams, 10 home 5 road.From 1/3 to 2/13 the Celtics play 23 games over 42 days
Recently they have been. Had 20+ point leads in many games in a row. Tacko and Waters are finishing games.I'd like this fully healthy team to start blowing out lesser squads, especially at home, for load management purposes.
I meant to write, "especially on the road" and not "at home." You are correct that the last four wins have been blowouts, including one up North. Hopefully, they'll bust out Toronto again tonight.Recently they have been. Had 20+ point leads in many games in a row. Tacko and Waters are finishing games.