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Discussion in 'Our Errors are Mistakes: The Media Forum' started by allstonite, Mar 8, 2017.
Hey look, Barstool is still trash.
Add Swatters to the list of their deplorable employees.
By the looks of the screen cap of the conversations, Twitch may be the worst place on the internet!
That’s a bit ugly.
I get that BS has come quite a ways since their start and are producing some quality content in several areas. I get that the generally sophomoric brand isn’t for everyone, and is probably harmless in most cases. I also get that it can be unfair to link a comments section to the articles. But I can’t help but be horrified that virtually every article I’ve read on BS has a comments section absolutely filled with the typical 4chan persecuted angry white man who just has to throw out something for ‘shock value.’
Tough to blame BS directly for that, but impossible for me to wholly separate the two.
I don't connect comment sections with any site really. They're naturally crazy people. Same with people that write long reviews of useless products on amazon. Anyone that has that much time has to be crazy or very angry. Also from what I understand there's like 1 commenter to every 20k readers
Cross posting from the Port Cellar:
The Pardon My Take podcast out this week with JJ Redick is outstanding. Must listen for 76ers fans, NBA fans and sports fans in general.
Pardon My Take did something completely different today and had an oral history of the 'Joe Buck Show' on HBO. They were able to get Buck, Artie Lange, and Paul Rudd. It's really well done and they're all pretty open about what happened. There seemed to be no hard feelings from anyone involved and it was a huge miscalculation on HBO's part. They didn't even do a test show for a show that was going to be live and Buck and Lange hadn't met until a few minutes before it aired. They compared it to the PMT guys ESPN show and how similar the situations were. Also, Paul Rudd always seems like the nicest guy in the world.
The PMT guys said they hoped to do more of these but they fell behind and now it's football season. I hope they do get back to them next summer because the show starts to drag during the dog days after the NBA/NHL playoffs. They still can be funny and are always getting better caliber of guests but this was a fun way to mix it up and put their own spin on a 30 for 30 type program.
Didn’t love the never ending Mt Rushmore’s?
Mikey Rap sues Barstool.
Will Leitch has written an interesting piece for New York magazine in which he decries Barstool and his own role in helping create the culture that made Barstool possible:
I like Will Leitch a lot. I think that he's intelligent, self-effacing, funny and doesn't take things way too seriously. Through his works, it's helped me realize stuff about myself. I liked this piece a lot, mostly because I'm not a fan of Barstool or their culture.
Having said that, I'm not sure how Leitch can write an article like this and still be pals with AJ Daulerio. Daulerio is ten times the creep that Portnoy is and far more destructive. I get that Leitch and Daulerio are friends and there's a certain honor about sticking by your friends through everything. But Daulerio seems like a real dirtbag. I think that it's more correct to make the connection from Daulerio to Portnoy than Leitch to Portnoy. As Leitch argues, his Deadspin was more literate than Barstool. The only time he noticed the throng of proto-Stoolies is when the pieces skidded off course. Daulerio, even more than Portnoy, steered into that skid.
It seems to me that a big part of Leitch's thesis: Deadspin begat Barstool is missing a big link.
Kind of ironic that when Leitch’s piece hit the current Deadspin Deputy Editor had a bunch of old comments unearthed that were pretty disgusting. “Rape is just surprise sex” is the type of stuff we’re talking about.
Meanwhile Barstool just hired a new all female podcast, had another all female podcast just get nominated for a People’s Choice award, and continues to have Kayce Smith kick ass in college football coverage. ZBT just won a community service award for all they’ve done to raise money and awareness for veterans.
The whole moral outrage for clicks (and Barstool’s circle the wagons responses) is all exhausting and unnecessary at this point, for me at least. I prefer to just consume the content and have tried to pare down my twitter follow list to do just that, but it’s unavoidable in some capacity.
I actually thought Pat McAffee quitting due to disagreements with the business team was a bigger story for Barstool. That one surprised me and was the first indication of issues on the operational/business side of the house instead of the content side.
I hear you. I wish he connected AJ somehow, but yea they are friends and it is extremely disappointing. My take from the article was the link to The Daily Beast article, which basically says that women sportswriters can't write anything critical of Barstool or they will be harassed/abused and doxxed. Even the victims refuse to publicly come forward for fear of retribution. When you look at the body of work of Barstool (I guess I will say Portnoy individually, as he is the main offender) it is amazing he is still in charge.
Edit: Forgot the link.
No it's not. He is the Barstool brand, for better or worse. He talks, throngs of people listen. That said, he's also not the CEO, so no idea what his power actually is vs. perception.
He's not actually "in charge" anymore but you're larger point is correct since he's still the face of the company for the most part. I guess that's not shocking since he's obviously popular with his crowd but I'm surprised they've allowed him to continue his shit stirring now that they're trying to get more and more mainstream traction.
They have a lot of talented people and great podcasts under their umbrella with people who probably don't want to be lumped in with the assholes but the assholes will continue to get all the publicity and it lets people completely write them off immediately. I used to do the same thing until I picked up Pardon My Take and I slowly branched out from there. I was hoping the company would grow up going forward but that clearly isn't going to happen. I'll stick with what I like from them (PMT, Mickstape, Lights Camera Podcast) but won't go outside of that and never visit the website.
The Rapaport stuff is a joke. He legitimately seems to have lost his mind and has burned a ton of bridges in the past year or so. When he was fired he said on Twitter that he slept with multiple Barstool female personalities. But he's the one who is suing?
Did I just imagine that there was a @TFP post on here a while ago? Anyhow, it seems like any site you choose to think has a moral high ground really doesn't. The Barry Petchesky old tweets that I thought TFP wrote about got surfaced and it's not a good look for Deadspin, ESPN has had their issues and Barstool of course has theirs. Like allstonite mentions, I choose who to read/listen to based on the person, not what site they're writing for.
TFP deleted his post.
Yeah - I find myself often wanting to respond in here, and find myself repeatedly saying the same things so it's not really useful. I also have no interest in going back and forth with people who have their minds made up and run to post hit pieces and call people names. And as I said in my deleted post - the drama on both of sides of it is exhausting to me. I'd rather discuss actual content stuff, but it gets drowned out. C'est le vie.
Ultimately, there is no moral high ground on either side, it's the internet. The internet sucks, and it's undefeated. And Barstool is REALLY good at the internet. But I find that the people who scream the loudest about Barstool either a) have no idea what the actual content is like b) judge them with a broad brush based off of specific instances and people (a lot of which are certainly valid criticisms on their own) and/or c) actually have said or done worse things online than what they're accusing Barstool of. And anyone using Deadspin as a source for anything approaching a "moral high ground" is so laughable it disqualifies them from speaking intelligently on this subject.
I've unhid my post for transparency sake, I thought I unposted it right away but obviously not.
I'm not sure what it says about America in 2018 that I could come straight to this thread from the Kavanaugh/SCOTUS thread in V&N and hardly tell the difference, but it certainly says something.
Yeah - that’s pretty much why I unposted. The thought crossed my mind, although I’d compare it more to arguing about Deflategate between Pats/non-Pats fans. No one’s minds are changing.
And right on cue - PFT with an unsurprisingly awesome article about all of this, including calling out a lot to Barstool behavior. Best outline of it all I’ve seen, I agree with everything he wrote. I encourage everyone to read it if they’re interested in this at all. It’s likely not what you expect, either.
Barry over at Deadspin wrote an article about his hateful posts that Barstool was bringing up.
Yeah, Daulerio is the worst. Not enough bad things can happen to him. But IMHO Portnoy is nearly as bad and is utterly vile in his own right. I realize others may feel differently, but his Gamergating all criticism is repulsive to me.
Could someone explain to me the pro-Portnoy POV in all of this? In reading this thread, it doesn’t even seem like the Barstool defenders are sticking up for him.
Whereas the other Barstool employees seem almost ashamed of the “small percentage” of Stoolies who go out of their way to harasse and demean people, Portnoy relishes those types and has weaponized them. He really seems to enjoy ruining the social media presence of anyone who dares go against Barstool and comes across as a truly vile human being.
And this whole campaign of digging up old tweets to try and excuse current behavior is ridiculous. As SJH pointed out in the comments of Petchesky’s article, theres a gigantic difference between a 12 year old post from a 22 year old who has grown since then and recognizes it was awful vs a 41 year old man who continually acts like that and thinks it’s completely fine
Portnoy is a horrible man child and person. I think it's safe to say most people agree with that. Where people seem to differ is whether or not you can consume their content (eg PMT) at all without becoming complicit in his dumb behavior. Similar to others in this thread, I'm not willing to go that far- especially in a media landscape where all these personalities and companies have skeletons. Portnoy isn't actually the boss even if he is the face of the company for his minions. Barstool has some of the best female personalities in sports despite their reputation - Kayce Smith is awesome, for example. Overall I guess my point is that I don't consider it a black and white situation.
I don’t think the overall situation is black and white but I think one point of it is. The people who help our Portnoy by digging through crates of old tweets (Kmarko, Smitty) are completely in the wrong and look just as bad as him.
I also don’t think it’s too much to ask that the other Barstool employees unequivocally state that how he uses his platform and that some of the shit he has done recently (thinking specifically of Laura Wagner and sticking his army on her....I actually don’t think he meant to dox Bob Saietta) is wrong and fucked up. Instead they’ve kind of half stepped around it saying “I don’t agree with everything Dave does”
It sucks because I think that most of the Barstool employees are generally good people and not like Portnoy. However, mostly because Portnoy feels the need to bring it up all of the time and stake claim on Barstool as a whole, Barstool will forever be mostly associated with Portnoy
I think this is all spot on.
How much equity (%) does he have left in the company?
Not sure, but he is in every way the face and soul of the company. He IS Barstool in the public perception. And no matter how talented the rest of the staff is, the entire site and corporate umbrella is essentially him.
I have zero doubt that should PFT and Big Cat break from Barstool to do PMT through another outlet, they'd be extremely successful. I don't see why either one of those guys needs Portnoy at all. If Vice Media was able to dump the co-founder who turned out to be a white supremacist and yet still thrive, Barstool could certainly dump Portnoy. The question remains whether they want to, or if in fact the site's ethos is essentially Portnoy's personal brand of swaggering misogyny and douchebaggery.
The things he's done to Laura Wagner turn my stomach.
I’ve never read barstool and can’t stand portnoy from the things I’ve read about him. He most likely deserves every piece of criticism that comes his way.
I do read deadspin. The fact that Barry said stuff shouldn’t let barstool off the hook BUT deadspin is the leader in shaming people for old tweets and they don’t give a shit if it was posted while someone was in high school. It seems totally fair to call them out for the double standard here.
I like reading Barry. He’s probably a nice guy. He probably doesn’t even remember writing that stuff. He probably said it all in jest. He’s probably a totally different person now and wouldn’t write those same things. What he said without thinking on some comment board 12 years ago doesn’t have a lot to do with the guy he is now. I grant him all of that without knowing anything about him beyond his writing. I wish deadspin would do the same to others instead of raking them over coals.
Sorry if not related to topic but It’s annoying double standard that will be ignored the next time they dig up tweets from 6 years ago by a highly drafted qb.
How is any of what your describing different than your experience on certain members only parts of this board, or others that you’ve participated in? I’m willing to allow that you’ve matured like other people, but Portnoy’s unwillingness to change makes him vile now. Eh.
Edit: Deadspin is hot garbage. Has been for a while.
What’s your moniker mean?
I know there are lots of Magary fans here and I like Drew in small doses (over the last few years, I feel like he has fallen into a Simmons-like pattern, which is very ironic, of going to the same references etc.) but at this juncture, PFT is the most clever satirist working in sports media. Then he goes and posts this - a thoughtful and honest take on what Barstool and its fans can do better - and it just underscores how great he is at using his platform.
I don't love much about Barstool but PMT, PFT and Big Cat are the best at what they do right now.
I mean, this is it right here. Portnoy is doubling down on his actions.
It’s good for his business and it’s nothing for people to go to their fainting couches over. Laura Wagner is trying to get traffic to Deadspin through a concerted effort to target Barstool because of its popularity. She is not owed a line in the sand that allows no more than a proportional response. Poor Laura Wagner? Really?
We're going to disagree about what Portnoy did to Wagner.
So you're okay with what Portnoy did to Wagner because it ultimately drove clicks to Deadspin?
It really doesn't matter why.
I’m not going to pretend that I’m bothered by it for two reasons:
1. When the tiger attacked Roy in Vegas, it didn’t go crazy - it went tiger. She’s a smart adult. She knows her subject and given those two things she has to be prepared for how he may react. I view that as a necessary requirement for taking on the job.
2. The entire thing was a predictable paint by numbers exercise on both sides to generate heat.
It’s like making Glen Ordway’s home phone number the password to a member’s only webpage. More caustic, but the intent’s the same.
Putting aside any other considerations:
How does what you infer as "her lack of preparation" help Portnoy here. It's his behavior at issue. Oh, that's right! He's just a wild animal. As I recall, the "Mike Tyson Defense" didn't work for Mike Tyson, either.
I don’t know, toughen up a bit and stop playing stupid?
And for the commentariat, maybe stop pretending that she’s not in on it? You’re picking one outrage profiteer over another.
Outrage profiteer? Is that what they call middle-aged juvenile misogynist asshole bullies these days? I need an arboretum to keep track of all these new-fangled figleafs.
You'd save a lot more time by just saying, "It's the victim's fault."
Speaking of predictable... Good job. Good effort.
You know, when a respected artist/ politician/ member of the community does something awful, you have to hold them accountable. For those that hitched their stars to that wagon in one way or another, I do understand it can be hard. Human excellence can obscure human failing in complex ways. The squirm and rhetorical embarrassments are still pathetic, but you may be meeting someone on their path to acceptance as they bargain with it.
Imagine feeling like Barstool Sports was so vital to your life you'd go show your ass in public blaming a victim of this lunatic piece of shit with points that a middle schooler could swat away. Barstool Sports.
Not gonna pretend he's bothered! The bravery.
I think Barstool is definitely more your kind of place. It's not gonna fly here.
Well this played out more or less how TFP predicted it.
Barstool appeals to teenaged Brett Kavanaugh-types.
Barstool SportsVerified account @barstoolsports Sep 25
ZBT is getting a "moral courage" award from Headstrong, a mental health for veterans organization https://bars.tl/SpH7mfZqvQ
Chaps is a friend of mine, I invited him to be the guest of honor at our birthday ball last year. It is worth checking out his reaction to the hearings this week. Specifically I would listen to his statement at the start of the HiHaters podcast that he does with another former Marine, Kate, who is one of the most entertaining reads on the internet, if you are looking for a perspective quite different from most of us.
My last Sergeant Major (a woman) laughed at me when I said this, but I honestly felt that listening to Kate offer the very unfiltered female NCO perspective on multiple podcasts made me a better leader in that it offered a perspective that old dudes like me often don’t understand or recognize terribly well.