Sons of Britt Burns.jon abbey said:What's the White Sox equivalent of SoSH? I hope there is some serious organized booing tonight, I really want to see him cry on the field or in the dugout.
and its not like this bombshell is fresh. we have known about it since the start of the season... Plenty of time for the Boo's to brewBob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:Sons of Britt Burns.
I don't think we have to worry about the South Siders booing tonight. They live for this shit.
''We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction,'' Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston. It is understandable, but wrong that he would try to deflect the accountability for his mistakes on to others and to a system for which he voted in favor. It is time to get on with life and forget the sour grapes.''
Red(s)HawksFan said:
I think it is. He was probably facing 100 games as a repeat offender and rather than have anything carry over to next season, he negotiated his sentence down to run out with the end of this season.
I would think if Braun thought he had a chance to fight it and win again, he would have done that.... They must have info that he knows he cant fight. Same goes for everyone else who was suspended todayHarry Hooper said:
Yeah, but the positive test result for the first offense was vacated, so MLB may not have been able to make their threat of a 100-game suspension stick. Braun seems to have had an excellent chance of getting it cut to 50 games, but 65 was close enough for him to sign the agreement. An interesting thing to ask him or MLB is what happens if he fails another test.
Per ESPN, the Rodriguez suspension is 100 games for PED use, and 111 games for other stuff. I doubt the MLBPA agrees with MLB putting him immediately at repeat offender status, and we'll see how it feels about the additional 111 games.
MLB commissioner Bud Selig said in a statement that Rodriguez's punishment will begin Thursday and cover the rest of the 2013 regular season, the 2013 postseason and the 2014 regular season and was covered under the drug program's protocols and based on Rodriguez's "use and possession of numerous forms of prohibited performance-enhancing substances, including testosterone and human growth hormone, over the course of multiple years.
"
"Rodriguez's discipline under the Basic Agreement is for attempting to cover-up his violations of the program by engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct and frustrate the Office of the Commissioner's investigation," Selig said in the statement.
Rodriguez's suspension is the equivalent of 211 regular-season games because he has 72 hours to inform baseball that he will appeal. His lawyer, David Cornwell, said Rodriguez would appeal and he would "pursue all legal remedies available to Alex."
Rodriguez will be allowed to play until his appeal is heard. To that end, he was listed on the Yankees lineup for Monday's game as batting cleanup and playing third base.
"He's here, he's going to play," Yankees manager Joe Girardi said. "[The appeal] really doesn't change anything for us."
It will be Rodriguez's first action of the season due to injuries.
"Under the terms of the Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program, Rodriguez's suspension will be stayed until the completion of his appeal if Rodriguez files a grievance challenging his discipline," Selig said.
The Major League Baseball Players Association is prepared to support Rodriguez in his appeal.
Said MLBPA executive director Michael Weiner: "For the player appealing, Alex Rodriguez, we agree with his decision to fight his suspension. We believe that the Commissioner has not acted appropriately under the Basic Agreement. Mr. Rodriguez knows that the Union, consistent with its history, will defend his rights vigorously."
Sampo Gida said:So to summarize
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9540755/mlb-bans-13-including-alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees-2014
Arod gets to play while appeal is being heard, and MLBPA agrees MLB has not acted appropriately under the Basic Agreement.
Worst case, Arod gets paid 65% of whats owed him over the rest of the contract, a far cry from lifetime ban, and perhaps more if the arbiter reduces the suspension.
How this benefits the Yankees?. Sure, they get some salary relief for next year, but that's not going to help them sign any long term deals if their goal is to remain under the tax threshold, since come 2015 Arods 28 million is back on the books (despite him only getting 21 million). Their main reason for being under the threshold is the revenue sharing rebates and not resetting the tax to 17%.
ForceAtHome said:
I don't think the Yankees were ever intending to remain under the luxury tax threshold. Their goal was to get under for one season so as to reset the extent to which they are taxed. Instead of continuing to pay 50% on overages, they would reset to (I believe) 17.5% in the first year going over with it increasing from there.
morningdew(ey) said:Here is my question. MLB attempted to get ARod to agree to a suspension for the rest of 2013 and all of 2014. Behind this was a rumor of a threat for the rest of his life if he refused. He refused. So now MLB suspends him for that exact amount. I assumed the original amount was like a plea bargain, and now he would get a longer penalty.
I have read the thread going back several pages, to today's content. So was there a larger suspension threat previously proposed if ARod did not agree, and why is the penalty not different from the suggested suspension MLB originally offered? What incentive was there for ARod to agree days ago?
walkoffblast said:Anyone else find some irony in that MLB gained much of their case against Arod by essentially intimidating Bosch to do what they want yet the main thing they seem to think they can suspend Arod for is when he allegedly attempted to influence Bosch?
Sampo Gida said:
So if they are 30 million over that amounts to a saving of less than 10 million, while revenue sharing rebates could be as high as 30 million by 2016. They have paid as much as 25 million in tax before when revenues were smaller, so not sure why 10 million savings, which is only 5% of payroll would be a big deal. I can understand the goal of revenue sharing rebates (30 million), 0 tax (15 million) and reduced payroll (30 million) being a goal, as that is a savings of 75 million. Trick there is to remain competitive to avoid losing revenues more than your savings.
Exactly.Rovin Romine said:
Not really. Pressuring people to tell the truth is different than pressuring people to lie, or attempting to destroy evidence.
jon abbey said:Has anyone talked about why Braun agreed to 65 games even though getting 50 like everyone else would have meant another $800K or so in his pocket? Is it because of his previous positive that was thrown out?
jon abbey said:What's the White Sox equivalent of SoSH? I hope there is some serious organized booing tonight, I really want to see him cry on the field or in the dugout.
morningdew(ey) said:Here is my question. MLB attempted to get ARod to agree to a suspension for the rest of 2013 and all of 2014. Behind this was a rumor of a threat for the rest of his life if he refused. He refused. So now MLB suspends him for that exact amount. I assumed the original amount was like a plea bargain, and now he would get a longer penalty.
I have read the thread going back several pages, to today's content. So was there a larger suspension threat previously proposed if ARod did not agree, and why is the penalty not different from the suggested suspension MLB originally offered? What incentive was there for ARod to agree days ago?
The appeal isn't going to be public, you know? The oly stuff we'll hear will be leaks.Rovin Romine said:I think the only thing that makes sense is that MLB decided to go for a lower penalty once they knew ARod would be appealing whatever they assessed as a penalty. It's probably better for MLB to win at arb for a midrange penalty, than have a heavy penalty reduced by an arbitrator.
It'll be interesting to see just what they bring out as a basis for the suspension (no mention in the announcement as to recruiting other players, for example) and also interesting to see what they use as the rationale for the length of the suspension (instead of just picking a number based on roughly how bad something sounds.)
Per Cots, NY's 2013 payroll is $228m. I don't know what the number will be for luxury tax purposes but let's use this for the moment. ARod's cap hit is $27.5m so they'd be down to $200m. They have to resign or replace Cano, Granderson, Jeter, Kuroda, Pettitte, Hughes and Youkilis. They'll save Rivera's salary but the rest of the pen is either a FA or in arb. I can't foresee a scenario where they get under $189m and field even a somewhat competitive team despite possibly saving ARod's cap hit.ForceAtHome said:
I don't think the Yankees were ever intending to remain under the luxury tax threshold. Their goal was to get under for one season so as to reset the extent to which they are taxed. Instead of continuing to pay 50% on overages, they would reset to (I believe) 17.5% in the first year going over with it increasing from there.
glennhoffmania said:Per Cots, NY's 2013 payroll is $228m. I don't know what the number will be for luxury tax purposes but let's use this for the moment. ARod's cap hit is $27.5m so they'd be down to $200m. They have to resign or replace Cano, Granderson, Jeter, Kuroda, Pettitte, Hughes and Youkilis. They'll save Rivera's salary but the rest of the pen is either a FA or in arb. I can't foresee a scenario where they get under $189m and field even a somewhat competitive team despite possibly saving ARod's cap hit.
I agree they should have the option, but at the expense of being a terrible team for at least another year.ForceAtHome said:
Next season the Yankees will no longer be paying $8.5m for Burnett to pitch in Pittsburgh. They'll also get an extra $9.1m from the Angels for Wells. Rivera is obviously retiring ($10m). That's $27.6m in savings there. Subtract A-Rod's $27.5m and that's $55.1m off the books next year.
Jeter has a player option for 2014. I have no idea if he's likely to take it or not, but if he does, it's more savings for the Yankees. The option is for $9.5m, a paycut of $7.5m. The subsidized-to-$5m Soriano (along with Gardner, Ichiro, and Wells) may mean that the Yankees let Granderson ($13m) leave. I have no idea what the Yankees ultimately plan to do or how competitive they plan to be, but getting under the threshold is very feasible.
Youkilis and Pettitte are each making $12m this season. It's not like either one is particularly cheap. It's not hard to fathom a scenario where they're replaced with equivalent to better production for less money. Cano is sure to get a big raise assuming he re-signs, and Kuroda will be interesting as well. Still, if the Yankees want to reset the luxury tax, they'll have that option.
jon abbey said:According to Cots they're only at $63M right now without A-Rod's number ($89M with). Jeter opting in only adds another $5M, they could keep Kuroda (if he wants to keep playing), overpay Cano and even keep Granderson and still be in pretty good shape.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html
TomRicardo said:
Any time your rotation consists of just CC Sabathia and Ivan Nova, it might be a little pretty premature to say you are in good shape.
Don't listen to this but for me, I won't root for the Yankees in any game that A-Rod plays for them. If he's on the bench with an injury, I might watch. But until he is gone from the team roster, I can't enjoy the experience anymore. We knew he was lying in 2009 when he limited his PED use to 3 years with Texas. That was like a little kid fibbing to his parents. But to go back and keep using after telling the world of his slipup, well, that's not the type of person I can root for anymore. It was hard enough rooting for him and Clemens to begin with. Distasteful is a word that comes to mind.crow216 said:
If I'm being perfectly honest. I just want him to hit the damn ball and shutup now. If he's going to get suspended either way, it's better that the Yankees get 50 games from him at 38 than at 40 years old.
I won't listen to any Yankee fan who tells me that if it's the bottom of the 9th and he's up, they're rooting for him to strike out.
If you deduct the money Alex has coming for 2014, he still is owed 64 million for the duration of the contract. Does MLB treat that as 16m AAV against the cap next year even though ARod is not playing?ForceAtHome said:
Next season the Yankees will no longer be paying $8.5m for Burnett to pitch in Pittsburgh. They'll also get an extra $9.1m from the Angels for Wells. Rivera is obviously retiring ($10m). That's $27.6m in savings there. Subtract A-Rod's $27.5m and that's $55.1m off the books next year.
Jeter has a player option for 2014. I have no idea if he's likely to take it or not, but if he does, it's more savings for the Yankees. The option is for $9.5m, a paycut of $7.5m. The subsidized-to-$5m Soriano (along with Gardner, Ichiro, and Wells) may mean that the Yankees let Granderson ($13m) leave. I have no idea what the Yankees ultimately plan to do or how competitive they plan to be, but getting under the threshold is very feasible.
Youkilis and Pettitte are each making $12m this season. It's not like either one is particularly cheap. It's not hard to fathom a scenario where they're replaced with equivalent to better production for less money. Cano is sure to get a big raise assuming he re-signs, and Kuroda will be interesting as well. Still, if the Yankees want to reset the luxury tax, they'll have that option.
ForceAtHome said:
As far as I can tell, here are the current luxury tax rules:
Year 1: 17.5%
Year 2: 30%
Year 3: 40%
Year 4+: 50%
So, if the Yankees are $30m over for three years without resetting the tax rate, they will be taxed:
Year 1: $15m (50% of $30m)
Year 2: $15m (50% of $30m)
Year 3: $15m (50% of $30m)
3 year total: $45m
If the Yankees are $30m over for three years after resetting the tax rate, they will be taxed:
Year 1: $5.25m (17.5% of $30m)
Year 2: $9m (30% of $30m)
Year 3: $12m (40% of $30m)
3 year total: $26.25m
So, if the Yankees plan to be around $30m over the luxury tax, getting under and resetting would save them about $18.75m over three years. Obviously, the more the Yankees spend, the higher their total "savings" would be.
I think there's some kind of precedent for refiguring the AAV of the entire contract and retroactively adjusting prior yeas payments.Doctor G said:If you deduct the money Alex has coming for 2014, he still is owed 64 million for the duration of the contract. Does MLB treat that as 16m AAV against the cap next year even though ARod is not playing?
If this is true, then I no longer have a big beef with the luxury tax implications of the suspension.Plympton91 said:I think there's some kind of precedent for refiguring the AAV of the entire contract and retroactively adjusting prior yeas payments.
terrynever said:Don't listen to this but for me, I won't root for the Yankees in any game that A-Rod plays for them. If he's on the bench with an injury, I might watch. But until he is gone from the team roster, I can't enjoy the experience anymore. We knew he was lying in 2009 when he limited his PED use to 3 years with Texas. That was like a little kid fibbing to his parents. But to go back and keep using after telling the world of his slipup, well, that's not the type of person I can root for anymore. It was hard enough rooting for him and Clemens to begin with. Distasteful is a word that comes to mind.
Hey, I'm in the twilight of my baseball fandom career as it is. I'll come back when his contract is gone, or when the Yankees completely apologize for him and Clemens and Giambi.
The only thing that brings me back is a great young player coming out of the farm system and forcing me to watch. Unfortunately, I don't see any of those in the farm system.
kneemoe said:Why would anyone assume they're clean because of this scandal when no one tested positive for anything? It would make just as much sense to assume anyone using PEDs is on something MLB can't or wont find with current testing.
Sampo Gida said:main benefit for using steroids is to get that big contract and nothing they do in these few months is going to help them all that much in contract negotiations. So basically all risk, little benefit. Yeah, I think my assumption is pretty safe.
NortheasternPJ said:
If doing PEDs was only about the contract then they'd all or nearly all stop as soon as they got the big contract. We've seen in a number of cases that's not the case dating back to the original List. With all the stories about A-Rod, I don't assume he thinks like a common person either.
Why'd Lance Armstrong dope for years after getting millions? These guys are the top .01% of everyone. It's a combination of superior skill, more work effort and a lot of the times some mental state where they're driven to be the best past all others. Money isn't the #1 factor for all athletes, much as it isn't for everyone in the normal world either.