RedOctober3829 said:I thought if he got suspended under the CBA best interest of baseball clause he couldn't play? Isn't it just under the PED side of the agreement that he can appeal and play through it.
canderson said:Heyman says their will be 12 suspended players, three "unknown" at this time.
walkoffblast said:The impression I get is that if he can play while he appeals that only covers him up until Selig essentially reiterates he still thinks he should be suspended for however long he initially ruled he should be suspended. I don't see how you can suspend him for more than 50 games under just the PED CBA stuff and not expect to lose if it ever gets to a real court. Tomorrow should be interesting, we will find out how much of this has been posturing all along. If MLB doesn't plan to suspend him for reasons other than PED then I think we will see a last minute deal, that is if Arod is amenable to something like rest of this season only in lue of wasting a lot of money in courts.
My understanding was that it was more than the standard 50 games because there are other factors here. Like lying to investigators/ conduct detrimental and other things.walkoffblast said:The impression I get is that if he can play while he appeals that only covers him up until Selig essentially reiterates he still thinks he should be suspended for however long he initially ruled he should be suspended. I don't see how you can suspend him for more than 50 games under just the PED CBA stuff and not expect to lose if it ever gets to a real court. Tomorrow should be interesting, we will find out how much of this has been posturing all along. If MLB doesn't plan to suspend him for reasons other than PED then I think we will see a last minute deal, that is if Arod is amenable to something like rest of this season only in lue of wasting a lot of money in courts.
EvilEmpire said:Selig doesn't have to do the best interests of baseball thing right away. I wonder if MLB gets any kind of advantage from letting the drug arbitration thing play out first. Advantage as far as getting additional testimony, evidence, catching ARod in a lie during the arbitration hearing, or whatever. Something about the sequencing of all this that might make later actions more successful. Selig may have been bluffing about the ban, but I wonder what cards he might be holding back.
Depending on what they have, maybe? It is in the best interest of baseball that the scope of ARod's cheating be fully exposed and that he doesn't undermine the process. They know he's lied to investigators before. I'm sure if they somehow got the opportunity, they'd love to be able to ask him questions under oath. Doubt they will, but I'm just wondering if there is something tactical they gain from the process that they'll be able to use later.NDame616 said:Is it in the best interest of baseball for him to have evidence, hold onto it (rather than present it to him during these past 6 months), and wait to catch him in a lie?
Maybe. I was thinking all evidence related to PEDs, since that presumably would be the scope of what the arbitrator is ruling on. Evidence about obstructing the investigation? I think that might be a different matter that doesn't need to be handled in front of the arbitrator at the same time as the PED stuff. If not, no need to turn everything over right away. Not until MLB is ready to act on those issues.bankshot1 said:I would think that in the appeal process Arod would be entitled to see what evidence (all) that MLB is basing its action and penalties on. I think the introduction of witheld evidence after Arod's appeal would likely be frowned upon by the arbitrator, and any other mediator judge that might have a say in this matter.
NDame616 said:
Um. What?
strek1 said:My understanding was that it was more than the standard 50 games because there are other factors here. Like lying to investigators/ conduct detrimental and other things.
walkoffblast said:
Depending on why he was suspended it is likely his "appeal" would essentially just be decided upon by Selig. Being able to play while appealing isn't going to be covered by the CBA once it goes past that step and Arod is trying to get this issue into real courts (at least without an injunction that says otherwise).
86spike said:I wonder if this "he can play during an appeal" is due to the MLBPA letting Selig know they would not stand for de facto extra-judicial treatment.
NDame616 said:
I've thought this whole time MLB was legally wrong with their threats to ARod, and ARod's team played them perfectly.
MLB: We are going to push for a lifetime ban
ARod: I'm going to fight any punishment levied against me
MLB: If ARod doesn't accept punishment, he can't play during the appeal process
ARod: I don't know what's going on. I'm flying to Chicago on Monday to play for the Yankees.
MLB: ok....he's suspended until 2014...and he can play during the appeal
ARod's team is winning this so far. It's far from over, but they've been right so far
NDame616 said:
And, I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding, I have no idea why you're suggesting Selig is ruling in his appeal. It's an independent arbitrator who will ultimately decide his fate, not Selig.
Maybe, but why all the back and forth since? Why did MLB then bring up the life time ban and threat he can't play while appealing (which is against the CBA) if we are back to the original proposed deal? What happened, and why did it change? Did MLB get more facts since it offered the ban till 2014, or is it just Selig throwing his hissy fit?jon abbey said:
Except I think there was a point before 'lifetime ban' where it was going to be suspended until 2014 and he can play during the appeal, so really we're just back to that.
I doubt they are anyone "well known" given the names would have leaked out by now if they were high profile players...Van Everyman said:Also: who are the three mystery players?
Van Everyman said:Another possibility is that cooler heads prevailed with the MLB. Especially after the lifetime ban was being bandied about, there was a lot of pressure for Bud as this played out to do what was prudent here and act within the agreed to rules -- on the basis that doing otherwise simply made ARod look sympathetic.
Going the JDA route allows Bud, as Olney noted last week, to argue to the MLBPA that he needs stiffer penalties for guys who flout the rules but only get caught once.
EvilEmpire said:Maybe. I was thinking all evidence related to PEDs, since that presumably would be the scope of what the arbitrator is ruling on. Evidence about obstructing the investigation? I think that might be a different matter that doesn't need to be handled in front of the arbitrator at the same time as the PED stuff. If not, no need to turn everything over right away. Not until MLB is ready to act on those issues.
Average Reds said:
This is possible and it's certainly how I would spin it if I were doing so on behalf of MLB, but the most likely explanation is that they overplayed their hand, their bluff was called and they folded.
We'll see how things play out later today, but if the reports are true that (1) MLB is handing out suspensions under the JDA, and (2) some of the offenders will not miss games because MLB is tying their non-analytic positives with Biogenesis to positive test results in 2012, MLB may be vulnerable in front of the arbitrator.
The case of Melky Cabrera is what I would focus on if I were A-Rod's attorney. Melky not only tested positive, but clearly impeded the investigation (and tried to manipulate/manufacture evidence) and yet he only got 50 games. And if his apparent non-analytic positive is lumped together with the previous offense, it seems to gut the rationale behind larger suspensions for A-Rod and Braun.
I have no sympathy for A-Rod. But if the reports of how these suspensions are coming down is accurate, I don't think the longer suspension for A-Rod will survive an arbitration hearing.
Rovin Romine said:Latest rumor is that Bud is no longer using the "Best Interest" clause, so this will go before an arbitrator (at least initially.) Also, I think that means A-Rod can play. We'll see.
A lot depends on what MLB is going to say about the documents and their efforts to obtain them (a timeline of who did what when, if you will). If I recall correctly, the New Times didn't give up the source's name and didn't turn over all the documents to MLB. If, during that time, A-Rod actively interfered with MLB's investigation into not only himself but 12-20 other players, than it's significantly different from what Melky did. Melky was fighting a positive test; putting up a website is more akin to a smokescreen. A-Rod has allegedly tried to obtain and destroy key physical evidence in the case, plus intimidate witnesses; that's more akin to burning down a house to hide your wrongdoings inside it.
opes said:I hope so. Because this is like all those times your high school girlfriend gave you blue balls.
I am so glad I had just finished a big gulp of water before reading this. Thanks for the laugh!opes said:I hope so. Because this is like all those times your high school girlfriend gave you blue balls.
Average Reds said:
This is possible and it's certainly how I would spin it if I were doing so on behalf of MLB, but the most likely explanation is that they overplayed their hand, their bluff was called and they folded.
We'll see how things play out later today, but if the reports are true that (1) MLB is handing out suspensions under the JDA, and (2) some of the offenders will not miss games because MLB is tying their non-analytic positives with Biogenesis to positive test results in 2012, MLB may be vulnerable in front of the arbitrator.
The case of Melky Cabrera is what I would focus on if I were A-Rod's attorney. Melky not only tested positive, but clearly impeded the investigation (and tried to manipulate/manufacture evidence) and yet he only got 50 games. And if his apparent non-analytic positive is lumped together with the previous offense, it seems to gut the rationale behind larger suspensions for A-Rod and Braun.
I have no sympathy for A-Rod. But if the reports of how these suspensions are coming down is accurate, I don't think the longer suspension for A-Rod will survive an arbitration hearing.
E5 Yaz said:AndrewMarchand Andrew Marchand
If A-Rod hits 13 more homers and ties Willie Mays, he receives a $6 million bonus.
SaveBooFerriss said:
Melky is a great comp. Braun is too. I think you can justify giving Arod 75-100 games, but I can't see the justification beyond that based on the suspension others are receiving.
crow216 said:
I think these kind of posts are hurting the discussion. You have no idea what the evidence the MLB has on Arod looks like so why are we making guesses or assumptions about what the suspension should be? What does the bolded even mean when it's so clear Arods case is very different from any other.
SaveBooFerriss said:
I think your post is internally inconsistent. No one knows the validity of the evidence that MLB has on Arod. I can't see how you can claim that Arod's case is very different than any other.
Lars The Wanderer said:Bob Nightengale just confirmed via twitter that Nelson Cruz accepted his immediate suspension.
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/364425186675671040Also suspended: #Yankees’ Cervelli, #Mariners’ Montero, #Mets’ Puello, #Astros’ Escalona, #Padres’ De Los Santos, #Yankees’ F. Martinez.