What I think isn’t being acknowledged is how long it can take to get such a system up and running. It’s not just about adding the prospects, it’s upgrading the entire scouting and development infrastructure so you can constantly turn out those contributions the way the Rays/ Dodgers/ Yankees do. I feel that anyone in the “you can always get more prospects, empty the farm for Soto” camp is missing 1) just how long this actually takes and 2) that the Sox are still way behind in this regard.Also, being like a 2.5x as expensive Rays is a pretty sweet model once up & running.
?They want to keep X, and the Lester plan to let him go and bring him back failed.Team seems to have a real problem making decisions. Listening and seriously considering? Team is about to be 50-52 and in last place. What exactly are they doing here? And why punish Bogaerts and make him stay?
It’s executive speak for “we’re selling”Team seems to have a real problem making decisions. Listening and seriously considering? Team is about to be 50-52 and in last place. What exactly are they doing here? And why punish Bogaerts and make him stay?
Contrary reports might make someone think that.Team seems to have a real problem making decisions. Listening and seriously considering? Team is about to be 50-52 and in last place. What exactly are they doing here? And why punish Bogaerts and make him stay?
Man, I don't know how you arrive at "why punish Bogaerts and make him stay." Xander's public statement of relief he's not being traded -- and the fact that they'd tell him -- suggests more than anything that both sides believe they'll work something out.Team seems to have a real problem making decisions. Listening and seriously considering? Team is about to be 50-52 and in last place. What exactly are they doing here? And why punish Bogaerts and make him stay?
Sure, and then they’ll trade for Soto, extend Devers, X moves to 2nd and everyone lives happily ever after.. The cynical part of me thinks they don’t want to trade him because they don’t want to be the bad guys.Man, I don't know how you arrive at "why punish Bogaerts and make him stay." Xander's public statement of relief he's not being traded -- and the fact that they'd tell him -- suggests more than anything that both sides believe they'll work something out.
You realize he has a NTC right?Sure, and then they’ll trade for Soto, extend Devers, X moves to 2nd and everyone lives happily ever after.. The cynical part of me thinks they don’t want to trade him because they don’t want to be the bad guys.
He’s their best trade chip, he’s a free agent. That they claim to have not even considered moving him is baffling to me.
I seriously doubt they give two thirds of a damn about being seen as the bad guys. There’s a reason they’re not trading Bogey and I’m going to choose to be optimistic about what that means. Whether it means they think we can turn this around or they like their chances of working out a long term deal, I don’t know.Sure, and then they’ll trade for Soto, extend Devers, X moves to 2nd and everyone lives happily ever after.. The cynical part of me thinks they don’t want to trade him because they don’t want to be the bad guys.
He’s their best trade chip, he’s a free agent. That they claim to have not even considered moving him is baffling to me.
Players get traded with NTCs all the time. They waive them for the specific trade. The clause only means they cannot be traded without their permission.You realize he has a NTC right?
Yeah, exactly. Curt Schilling had a no trade clause, as did Josh Beckett, and Carl Crawford, to name a few.Players get traded with NTCs all the time. They waive them for the specific trade. The clause only means they cannot be traded without their permission.
You're making assumptions about the FO and getting upset based on Twitter opinions? They are trying to thread a needle here. Wait as long as possible to sell to see if they have a chance this season. It's a waste of energy to judge Bloom based on a Jon F'n Heyman tweet. We'll have plenty to judge real soon.Team seems to have a real problem making decisions. Listening and seriously considering? Team is about to be 50-52 and in last place. What exactly are they doing here? And why punish Bogaerts and make him stay?
If this is true, trading for/buying guys who have been through and successfully endured that tough development trough and are about to become arbitration eligible might be a good strategy. Then signing then to longer deals that teams like Oakland can't afford.My stoner theory is that the jump from AAA to ML has grown wider so top prospects are going to need longer time to adjust after a promotion with likely some hot streaks and super cold streaks before leveling off for a bit.
It’ll be more difficult for top budget teams to be patient.
Also wondering if that may be the inverse of pitchers- talent gap between your non-ace (no.3-4 type) and your top 3-4 pitching prospects in AAA is possibly less?
Vazquez is a decent defensive veteran catcher with World Series experience who hits .808OPS against lefties this year (without a huge platoon split). He could absolutely help a contender as a good starter or an excellent backup/platoon partner who plays DH once a week vs a lefty starter. Even if they think they'll use him sparingly in the playoffs, Vasquez could be critical in helping some team get there. He'll be traded for decent value if they decide to move him.That’s not what I mean. Xander has spoken at least twice this year about wanting to get a deal done, and Boras has contradicted him in the press. You don’t have to be wearing a tinfoil hat to surmise that there is a little bit of daylight at the bare minimum between the player and his agent. It seems pretty clear to me that Xander would prefer to resign with the Red Sox. Which isn’t to say you have to get him for a song. And of course Boras doesn’t want to negotiate through the media.
The Sox, as I’ve said before, should be thinking like the Dodgers with their Rays-esque approach of developing the farm but using your deep pockets to sign (and keep) guys, as opposed to emptying the farm for guys though trades a la DD. For Henry this should work, assuming the farm produces MLB-caliber guys and a few studs.
So what does that mean for this team? Deal JD for prospects. If I’m Chaim, I see Xander as a rock for my lineup and offer more AAV and fewer years if I can. I back up the Brinks truck for Devers. And I try to sign one of the elite starters if they hit the market at big dollars (a la Price).
Vaz I try to re-sign given the lack of depth there unless somebody offers a huge payload – that may seem unlikely to us given his up and down tenure here but experienced catchers with 750 OPS who can hit elite speed can be an absolute spark plug for a team in the playoffs. He’s a guy I wouldn’t let go of unless someone (the Mets?) ponies up.
The Dodgers, not the Rays, John.
Good question.Wonder if Bloom deals someone that isn’t a free agent? He did say they’re discussing things that people expect and don’t expect. Who would be a candidate to go that hasn’t been talked about? Alex Verdugo?
View: https://twitter.com/jcmccaffrey/status/1552843094910967810?s=20&t=fkZ8DSs8-zaVvD59QjKkfgSure, and then they’ll trade for Soto, extend Devers, X moves to 2nd and everyone lives happily ever after.. The cynical part of me thinks they don’t want to trade him because they don’t want to be the bad guys.
He’s their best trade chip, he’s a free agent. That they claim to have not even considered moving him is baffling to me.
What about Crawford's performance in the mlb to date makes you think he is a swing man? Everything we have seen in addition to his XFIP XERA and FIP indicate he is a decent back of the rotation starter with the possibility of becoming a mid rotation starter. Crawford should not be moved unless they get a really really good return.I don't see Eovaldi getting moved with his velocity issues. I don't think a team is going to want to take a chance on him turning it around at the price he may command. I think Pivetta is the more likely candidate to be dealt, maybe a swing man like Crawford unless they really think he's a key piece for the future. Beyond that, I'm sure how much value there is any anyone who has started multiple games for this team that's healthy and that they'd make available. In a perfect world, Nate would be, but I think the downturn in his velocity is going to keep any deals worth making away.
Re: The tweet, the players, coaches, and staff see those comments too. I'm sure they don't want to ruffle any feathers unnecessarily.
Do the non-cynical parts of you ever post anymore?Sure, and then they’ll trade for Soto, extend Devers, X moves to 2nd and everyone lives happily ever after.. The cynical part of me thinks they don’t want to trade him because they don’t want to be the bad guys.
He’s their best trade chip, he’s a free agent. That they claim to have not even considered moving him is baffling to me.
Perhaps the new mentality of calling pitches from the dugout and PitchCom makes it easier for a new catcher to plug and play.How often does a contending team ever trade for a starting catcher midseason? I'd doubt it's very often other than if you lose a guy to a serious injury because you can't exactly just plug and play a catcher, unlike any other position, because they need to learn the strengths and weaknesses of every pitcher on the staff. You might be trading for a "better" guy, but if they don't know your staff as well as the old guy you'll end up with worse results short term.
Elston Howard? Think the Yankees would deal with us?How often does a contending team ever trade for a starting catcher midseason?
Absolutely correct. You don't become the Angels with a top heavy roster, you first build up your roster before adding the final piece. I don't want 800 million tied up in Soto/Devers, as fun as it would be to have 2 of 9 sports in the lineup. Too many deadweights would kill any rally.That’s one of the consequences of having a team full of holes and barely anyone in the minors ready to step up. For 2023 they aren’t looking for that final big piece to the puzzle, they are crawling on the floor seeing if there are any pieces to the border lying around.
This FO keeps things incredibly close to the vest so I’ll reserve judgment until Tuesday. (Tomase’s piece also ignores that the Sox gave out the fifth-largest contract of the winter, though Story’s season has made that easier to forget.)Unfortunately this article rings true.
View: https://twitter.com/jtomase/status/1553727395798126593?s=21&t=6R0EFyfcfmiGHr2VQv6VOQ
Do any of the large contracts handed out this past offseason look like good ideas other than possibly Correa (and then only because it’s a short commitment)?This FO keeps things incredibly close to the vest so I’ll reserve judgment until Tuesday. (Tomase’s piece also ignores that the Sox gave out the fifth-largest contract of the winter, though Story’s season has made that easier to forget.)
But yes, the sentiment does feel accurate and it’s maddening.
This post is swimming around in my head now (thanks OCD ), perhaps slightly more in light of what seems to be a strategic decision to draft and sign position players from high school in an ongoing way.What I think isn’t being acknowledged is how long it can take to get such a system up and running. It’s not just about adding the prospects, it’s upgrading the entire scouting and development infrastructure so you can constantly turn out those contributions the way the Rays/ Dodgers/ Yankees do. I feel that anyone in the “you can always get more prospects, empty the farm for Soto” camp is missing 1) just how long this actually takes and 2) that the Sox are still way behind in this regard.
Yes, I’d say so. Freeman of course. Gausman, Marte, Schwarber, Scherzer. Semien has looked great since they fixed the ball (142 wRC+ since late May). Seager is overpaid but on pace for a 5.5 fWAR season. Baez and Castellanos have been serious duds, and Suzuki is on the fence. Not all of them make sense for their team’s win curve. If anything it’s the mid-range free agent contracts that haven’t looked good.Do any of the large contracts handed out this past offseason look like good ideas other than possibly Correa (and then only because it’s a short commitment)?
Free Agent Signing | 3 |
Traded as a Major Leaguer | 1 |
International Free Agent | 5 |
Drafted | 8 |
Traded Before Reaching Majors | 3 |
Free Agent Signing | 7 |
Traded as a Major Leaguer | 1 |
International Free Agent | 1 |
Drafted | 6 |
Traded Before Reaching Majors | 3 |
Yup, writers want big trades and signings so they can dump on expensive players for clicks when they slump.Articles like Tomase's remind me of the Theo-era Sox, and the hand-wringing back then about how the Sox weren't all in on the highest profile, biggest name free agents and trade targets. Back when they let Pedro and Lowe and Damon walk, and trading Manny, and the biggest free agent contract they gave out was to JD Drew. They were "too cheap" to trade for Miggy Cabrera or sign free agents like Teixeira. The media (and a portion of the fan base) want fancy sparkly stuff even if it's not the best path to success because it gives them something to talk about.
We’re watching the alternative - take your medicine while the farm system rebuilds and fill holes with short term commitments to guys you think are undervalued or can bounce back from injury. Sometimes it works (2013, 2021), most times it doesn’t. This team was competitive into July and probably would have played meaningful games in late September had it not been for the rash of injuries, that’s not great but it’s not nothing.Large contracts often aren’t great value, but when you aren’t cranking out productive and cheap talent, what’s the alternative, if you want to be competitive? I’m sure that the contracts that Boagerts and Devers will get won’t be great deals but if the Sox want to be good next year they are probably going to have to agree to some deals they don’t love.
But if his part goes to my other post (quoted by @sezwho) - if we are talking about the next 5 years (Devers prime) then we’re mostly talking about using players who are already in the system to fill in around Soto and Devers and it goes without saying that you’re going to be using the player pool left over from the hypothetical Soto trade. I don’t think I’d be that optimistic about that pool supplementing a MLB lineup… which would put us right back in the position of having to pay free agents to stay competitive.… Just use that money to secure two of the best and most beloved players on the planet and trust your scouting and development teams to fill out the rest.
They will soon be cranking out productive and cheap talent, as these really nice prospects work their way to the majors.Large contracts often aren’t great value, but when you aren’t cranking out productive and cheap talent, what’s the alternative, if you want to be competitive? I’m sure that the contracts that Boagerts and Devers will get won’t be great deals but if the Sox want to be good next year they are probably going to have to agree to some deals they don’t love.