you know society is beyond hope when someone suggests that 3 million dollars for a part time player is nothing, I like the move, but he is not worth what they are going to pay himCan't go wrong with him at that price. If he's bad then who cares, cost you nothing, if he gets back to 2018/19 form then he's a steal at 3m and gives you a ton of options to either trade people or for lineup flexibility
Swing and a missyou know society is beyond hope when someone suggests that 3 million dollars for a part time player is nothing
He hasn't been a part time player in like 7 yearsyou know society is beyond hope when someone suggests that 3 million dollars for a part time player is nothing, I like the move, but he is not worth what they are going to pay him
He's been worth an average of 2 WAR per year for the last 6 years (not counting 2020 which was obviously shortened). In 2019, 1 WAR was worth about 8 million dollars. It's not linear, but clearly Gonzalez is well worth $3 million.you know society is beyond hope when someone suggests that 3 million dollars for a part time player is nothing, I like the move, but he is not worth what they are going to pay him
Tell us more about capitalism and money VEGASsoxfan.you know society is beyond hope when someone suggests that 3 million dollars for a part time player is nothing, I like the move, but he is not worth what they are going to pay him
I agree completely. I think it has been a great offseason.The bottom line Is that Chaim has made this team significantly better, the system deeper, and lowered future payroll obligations.
Its been very intriguing to watch. This roster is flexible and every player is good at specific things that can be exploited over the course of a season.
This team is going to compete.
But they haven't signed Sliced Bread!!!I agree completely. I think it has been a great offseason.
I’d really like Bloom to turn him into a failed-starter-about-to-be-solid-reliever guy right now.I love this signing because it might signal the end of the fetid corpse that is Michael Chavis.
What position can he play in the field at the major league level?I know this is the Marwin Gonzalez thread, but I don't understand the rush to dispense with Chavis. He had a solid rookie season and a dreadful weird shortened pandemic season. His minor league pedigree is solid and he showed marked improvement in every second season at a level. I'd say he's a decent bet to take a step forward from his rookie season.
In fact, Chavis's career at the plate in the minors and majors has basically been a better version of Franchy Cordero. Middling OBP, lots of strikeouts, and a bunch of homers. He's definitely got his defensive limitations, but his bat should be useful.
I think Chavis is a perfectly competent, if not excellent, first baseman. Which is a good fit for the Sox as that's not exactly a position of strength.What position can he play in the field at the major league level?
Cordero is a plus outfielder. Cordero has terrific speed. All things being equal, there's no comparison.
We all know that defensive metrics are full of noise, but your post made me share this. Usually when guys who I don't know well move to AL East teams, I look them up in my BP Annual books, which I did for Franchy yesterday. The 2019 book (admittedly 2 years old now) has this pretty funny description in his capsule writeup:Cordero is a plus outfielder.
that should be Defending AL Champion Rays to you.Transition to the Rays North continues. In Monty Python voice: "Bring out your utility players!"
If Chavis is already possibly being relegated to 1st base he needs to hit a hell of a lot better than he has so far in the majors to be worth anything at all.I think Chavis is a perfectly competent, if not excellent, first baseman. Which is a good fit for the Sox as that's not exactly a position of strength.
As far as Cordero goes, I was comparing their hitting strictly. I've read plenty about Cordero's tremendous power, so I figured it was worth mentioning that Michael Chavis has been a better power hitter.
(Also I've found no evidence of Cordero being a plus outfielder statistically, but I'll concede that he's basically a giant ball of projection at this point. Which is fine.)
I don't really care about Chavis's worth on the trade market, I'm really more interested in him possibly contributing to the Red Sox in 2021. Currently, Bobby Dalbec is slated to start at 1B. Here's a fun comparison:If Chavis is already possibly being relegated to 1st base he needs to hit a hell of a lot better than he has so far in the majors to be worth anything at all.
To be worth anything to the Sox as a 1st baseman he also has to hit a lot better. If Chavis role on the Sox is an average hitting 1b that's really easy to find for cheap (see Moreland still being unsigned)I don't really care about Chavis's worth on the trade market, I'm really more interested in him possibly contributing to the Red Sox in 2021. Currently, Bobby Dalbec is slated to start at 1B. Here's a fun comparison:
Bobby Dalbec's 94 plate appearances in 2020: .263/.359/.600 slash line, 8 homers, and 10 walks to 39 strikeouts.
Michael Chavis's first 96 plate appearances in 2019: .296/.406/.580 slash, 7 homers, and 14 walks to 25 strikeouts.
Might also be worth noting that Dalbec is older than Chavis. Point being that Chavis may very well have a role on this team. I'd rather not deal him for a bullpen arm.
Tomase thinks that Gonzalez will be part of 2 platoons- one with Renfroe and one with Dalbec. Gonzalez is consistent from both sides of the plate with a .261 lifetime average as both a lefty and a righty. Not sure how that split would work as both are righty batters.Feels like Marwin and Franchy will start on strong side of platoons, Franchy in LF and Marwin in RF.
Against LHP, Kike to LF with Arroyo at 2B. Renfroe in RF.
Just a guess.
Gonzalez is the switch-hitter who hits lefties and righties equally mediocrely (.732/.724 OPS splits), Hernandez is a RHH with much better numbers against LHP than RHP (.820/.673 OPS splits).Tomase thinks that Hernandez will be part of 2 platoons- one with Renfroe and one with Dalbec. Hernandez is consistent from both sides of the plate with a .261 lifetime average as both a lefty and a righty. Not sure how that split would work as both are righty batters.
Agree that Cordero has been as useless at the dish to date as Chavis, who at least brings some positional flexibility (but you still need to carry a utility infielder, as Chavis isn’t even close to passable at shortstop, so that flexibility has limited value).I know this is the Marwin Gonzalez thread, but I don't understand the rush to dispense with Chavis. He had a solid rookie season and a dreadful weird shortened pandemic season. His minor league pedigree is solid and he showed marked improvement in every second season at a level. I'd say he's a decent bet to take a step forward from his rookie season.
In fact, Chavis's career at the plate in the minors and majors has basically been a better version of Franchy Cordero. Middling OBP, lots of strikeouts, and a bunch of homers. He's definitely got his defensive limitations, but his bat should be useful.
Chavis also does not have the same underlying Statcast numbers that Cordero does. I just posted his numbers in the Cordero trade thread comparing Cordero to Brandon Lowe (2019) and Miguel Sano (2017). After all of the Chavis discussion, I figured it was worth showing a comparison of Chavis and Cordero, too, because, in the undeniably small sample size, Cordero has well above average xwOBA and exit velocity, while Chavis has well below average xwOBA and about average exit velocity.Agree that Cordero has been as useless at the dish to date as Chavis, who at least brings some positional flexibility (but you still need to carry a utility infielder, as Chavis isn’t even close to passable at shortstop, so that flexibility has limited value).
Chaim is betting that Cordero figured out something last season. Cordero’s swing-and-miss numbers were down markedly in his 42 PAs before he got hurt. That’s too small a sample to draw conclusions; I can only assume that our scouts saw something different too.
Cordero definitely has more upside than Chavis — he’s a better athlete, plus Chavis has never done anything remotely as impressive as Cordero’s 2017 season (326/369/603 in 93 games at AAA). Put another way, there’s a non-zero chance that Cordero will be a material contributor to the next good Red Sox team; I wouldn’t say the same for Chavis.
Player | xwOBA | K% | BB% | Exit Velocity | Batted Balls |
Franchy Cordero (Career) | .347 | 34.9% | 8.9% | 92.5 mph | 177 |
Michael Chavis (Career) | .292 | 32.8% | 7.2% | 88.6 mph | 318 |
you are 100% correct, I mixed up the 2 versatile players and edited it to reflect that. I’ll make sure not to post until I have had my coffee from now on.Gonzalez is the switch-hitter who hits lefties and righties equally mediocrely (.732/.724 OPS splits), Hernandez is a RHH with much better numbers against LHP than RHP (.820/.673 OPS splits).
I think this is the kind of semi-competitive season where we just need to take our lumps with Dalbec. Give him 500 PA, and see what happens. He isn't young, and we have Casas coming up behind him. We need to find out what we have.I don't *love* the Gonzalez signing. Obviously, he offers some value by virtue of his versatility, and $3m is fine to pay for that. But most everything he can do, Hernandez can also do, right?
Meanwhile, we still don't have a great plan for who plays 1B against RHP if Dalbec fizzles -- you really want to run a 1B out there five days a week with a 725 OPS? We still don't have a great option for CF (although, between Verdugo, Cordero, and Hernandez, we probably have three decent options). We still don't have a player on the 40-man I'd be happy slotting in at SS every day for three weeks if Bogaerts tweaks something. And I would rather have a better LHH to platoon with Renfroe.
Obviously, they could still add, but there's no room on the bench now unless they get rid of Arroyo, which I guess would be easier to do now but doesn't seem to be their desire. I guess we'll see.
Agree---but it seems like they need their starting pitching to be healthy all year to have a chance (like any team) but they seem to be accumulating a lot of cheap decent bench/platoon players which maybe can be used later in the year for trades? I'd rather they actually go after good starting pitching than another bench playerThey've got a roster filled with....I'm not sure what, exactly. A bunch of decent players, some wild cards, and a few otherworldly players (if healthy).
If the pitching works out, they could be kinda interesting. But they could also be....pretty bad.
There's no good starting pitching available for anywhere near what they got Gonzalez for. Richards got 3 times more and he's potentially good, but far from a sure thing.Agree---but it seems like they need their starting pitching to be healthy all year to have a chance (like any team) but they seem to be accumulating a lot of cheap decent bench/platoon players which maybe can be used later in the year for trades? I'd rather they actually go after good starting pitching than another bench player
Worth noting that of this winter's free agent class of starting pitchers, Richards is going to be paid the 5th highest AAV of the group. The only pitchers getting more than him this year are Bauer ($34M), Morton ($15M), Kluber ($11M), and Smyly ($11M). It speaks to how thin the market was.There's no good starting pitching available for anywhere near what they got Gonzalez for. Richards got 3 times more and he's potentially good, but far from a sure thing.
Also Odorizzi once he signs somewhere, presumably.Worth noting that of this winter's free agent class of starting pitchers, Richards is going to be paid the 5th highest AAV of the group. The only pitchers getting more than him this year are Bauer ($34M), Morton ($15M), Kluber ($11M), and Smyly ($11M). It speaks to how thin the market was.