Red Sox Deadline Discussion
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Papelbon's Poutine said:
Buster Olney confirmed he would not be a free agent if he sat out a year.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Given his performance the last couple of year teams will line up to sign him, yes, would his hurt him a little, maybe, but not as much as you think, and certainly not as much as the difference betwee $500,000 compared his market value.
Let me say this better: Farrell saying "we've got a plan and we've got faith in the plan" when the team is in the midst of a sell-off is not acceptable. It's fine for Rick Renteria and Theo to spout that ethos in the middle of a 5-year rebuild, but I don't want to hear that from the skipper of a team that went from winning 97 games to coming in last in a terrible division.
If you want to tell me how much faith you've got in the team's plan, you'd better be damn sure you make clear that it's a new plan from the one that threw away a year when the team should have contended.
Edit: This is a step in the right direction.
https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/494601182099173376
If you want to tell me how much faith you've got in the team's plan, you'd better be damn sure you make clear that it's a new plan from the one that threw away a year when the team should have contended.
Edit: This is a step in the right direction.
https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/494601182099173376
"Wrong again. He has no defensive value, his athleticism has been robbed by injuries, and he's not even a pull-hitter - so the wall will probably take away more than it gives. He's basically been a replacement player for 21 mil (so far) in 2014."
Not that I like the idea but Kemp has his OPS back to .800 and has been better than that 3 of the 4 months this season. In fact his June slash lines are 317/375/525 in 101 at bats and in July he has 311/400/432. He's not back to runner up MVP but he's far from a replacement level player to. He's overpaid for sure but if LA picked up part of his salary he actually could be of use as a LF'er. I'm not saying trade for him but if Pederson and a chuck of his contract was covered and taking on Kemp was a part of it, the tipping point wouldn't be whether to do it but how much of it would be subsidized.
nattysez said:
He can't very well identify specific targeted players they intend to push for without sacrificing bargaining position. Every team has a "Plan" every year. If the plan goes well like last year great things happen. Unfortunately in the world of sports most sports teams' plans don't pan out to varying degrees. Sometimes totally due to the plan but sometimes (IMO the Red Sox this year) the plan comes up short and also the component pieces don't live up to their performance potential (By a LOT in our case). I'm not going to label an organization or a GM crazy that's had this much success. Yes of course it's baffling to see such a drop off but I admire the brass balls Ben has when it comes to clearing the deck when the team has a huge drop off. Let's see what happens in the weeks/months ahead before we ready the tar & feathers.
Royals beat writer for Kansas City Star:
Andy McCullough @McCulloughStar 15m
The Royals, as mentioned yesterday, are still interested in John Lackey. Boston's demands are still considered too sizable.
Andy McCullough @McCulloughStar 15m
The Royals, as mentioned yesterday, are still interested in John Lackey. Boston's demands are still considered too sizable.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Didn't the "Manny's back and he's back big" moment occur about 9 months after a parade? And of course he was dealt about 9 months after the next parade.
Not disagreeing that it is sad, but it's not like it's totally out of the ordinary for there to be unhappy campers on the team even in the after-glow of a championship. And the '05 and '08 teams were in contention when the grumbling occurred.
Sports Director at 1510 The Zone, Boston:
john sapochetti @johnsap25 · 16m
Inside sources confirm that John Lackey has been told he will be traded.
john sapochetti @johnsap25 · 16m
Inside sources confirm that John Lackey has been told he will be traded.
Between Lester, Lackey, and Miller, I was expecting two premium outfield prospects. Now, I'm hoping we get at least one.
It's kind of feeling like that. If I had to guess one ends up with Oakland the other ends up in Pittsburgh with Miller and maybe Drew.RochesterSamHorn said:
Lackey doesn't strike me as a guy that would not want to be part of a major league team, next year... whatever the salary.
Andy McCullough @McCulloughStar 4m
The Red Sox are said to be seeking a power arm in exchange for John Lackey, and the Royals prize theirs (Zimmer, Manaea, Almonte, etc).
The Red Sox are said to be seeking a power arm in exchange for John Lackey, and the Royals prize theirs (Zimmer, Manaea, Almonte, etc).
Why would Ben instruct that Lackey to be told such a thing unless it were 1)after a deal was in place, and 2) immediately before it was announced? I think someone dumps LSD in the water supply of MLB journalists just before the deadline.mabrowndog said:
off topic, but given timing and eyes here anyone want four free tickets to game tonight? loge box 101, row RR. I can email them to you
send me message
send me message
We have 3 of the best arms truly available. Maybe the best three if the Hamels rumors aren't serious.
We are getting very good talent, even if we have to wait another 21 hours
We are getting very good talent, even if we have to wait another 21 hours
Andy - Wouldn't that be why the Sox would be interested in them?mabrowndog said:
I'm going to switch gears and go yell at the Sun for shining, because I know this is how the deadline works and am stupid for complaining about it. Carry on.
YupStuckOnYouk said:
All three will be dealt and the exchange will be solid. I'm so convinced that if I'm wrong, you can feel free to ban ghoffmania.
Fred in Lynn said:
I'm not disputing the veracity of that tweet or its author one way or the other, but Farrell has already acknowledged that the club has spoken individually to players to address the issues brought on by the trade deadline and to keep them apprised of developments. It's perfectly conceivable that (a) one or more trades involving Lackey have been agreed to in principle, and (b) they've explicitly assured him that he'll be moved in one of those deals, and ( c) Lackey or one of his cronies let it slip that he already knows he's gone.
Olney asserted it, but unless he's recently reported on something coming in from the league, I don't think he confirmed anything. The Lackey thread discussed this pretty well.gammoseditor said:
EvilEmpire said:
Post 131 in this thread quotes an insider article where Olney stated it as a fact. There's a bunch of people in that thread that thought otherwise based on a line from the CBA, but I'd trust Olney over online interpretation.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/83847-john-lackey-in-2015-and-beyond/page-3
So yeah, Olney asserted it, like I said. He's not in a position to confirm anything personally, though he can certainly report that the league confirmed it. Which I don't think has happened.gammoseditor said:
You can trust whoever you like.
Lackey gives us 1.5yrs of production for $80MM and then demands a trade. Wouldn't mind seeing him end up with the Marlins, see how he likes pitching for those guys.
EvilEmpire said:
Just want to be clear, there wasn't any ambiguity in Olney's report, and his job is to report on baseball. He wasn't stating an opinion. The other side is a few random people interpreting a 100+ page legal document.
He didn't state it as an opinion, but he didn't cite it as coming from the league offices. If it didn't, I don't know how you call that confirmed. MLBs interpretation is the one that matters, and I don't think they've weighed in or will until they have to. If they have to.gammoseditor said:
FWIW though, I'll trust the collective SOSH brain trust before I do Olney. SOSH has a much better legal team.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
I omitted a key word: "contingent"
Trades and agreements are often constructed in principle on an if-then-else basis, with both parties understanding nothing's final until they both affirm it. Sorry for not making that clear in my post.
EvilEmpire said:
Sure, but I see a bunch of random opinions, not a consensus opinion by the SOSH legal team. And there have been 0 reports backing up the speculation.
If those Lackey tweets are to believed, we've had three players request a trade within a week. That's not normal, even at the deadline, even for shit teams like the 2014 Red Sox.
Does anyone think something behind the scenes is going on - I mean other than the absolutely awful play on the field? They are only nine months from winning a f'n title and players are begging to be dealt. It's not normal IMO.
Does anyone think something behind the scenes is going on - I mean other than the absolutely awful play on the field? They are only nine months from winning a f'n title and players are begging to be dealt. It's not normal IMO.
It's fair to assume the Lester decision does not have many fans in the clubhouse. It must strike the players as "cold" for want for a better word, and probably raises the question, if they won't take care of Jon, who will they take care of. That Lester is a great guy personally only makes it worse (I doubt many tears were shed for Clemens). I am surprised we have not heard more from Papi. Very understandable, even if you agree with FOcanderson said:
In response to the earlier complainer, I'm not sure why anyone would say the Red Sox competition in the AL East is terrible this year. Apart from the Red Sox, the average AL East team is +6 games over .500. That is not easy competition. If the Sox were at .500 this would be overall the toughest division in MLB (again).
https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/494634210851045376
https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/494634210851045376
link to tweet
#hugwatch
https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/494634210851045376
link to tweet
#hugwatch
canderson said:
First off, I think dcmissile nails it with his response on the Lester issue. "Who will they take care of?" probably encapsulates the overall clubhouse mood perfectly. None of the players want to hear or try to make sense of any logical reasons, such as mitigating injury risk, because most of them see themselves and each other as people first and family second. Not assets to be used and discarded -- even though, in reality, that's exactly what they are to ownership despite any smiles and grins and parades and false fronts.
Still, each request comes amid unique individual circumstances.
Carp's request is understandable. He has no clear shot at gaining additional playing time -- even with Middlebrooks & Lavarnway (as well as Snyder & Brentz in AAA) shelved with injuries. His chances of doing so will be even dimmer once the first two return to action (and they're both due back imminently, unless they're about to be dealt as well). It's really not the club's fault that he's in this situation, since they're merely doing what the rules allow to retain talent and build depth.
Once we acknowledge that Doubront has proven to be a lazy athlete, his request is also understandable when viewed through his own warped lens. He apparently thinks a trade will fix things and return him to a starting rotation without him having to actually work for it, because he's already proven he can do it. That's on him, not the club, and I don't think he gave half a shit about what happens to Jon Lester because it didn't impact his role -- beyond creating a vacancy he felt he deserved to fill.
As for Lackey? Well, everyone forgave him really quickly for all the shit that transpired before 2013. No longer was he the surly a-hole who scowled when teammates made errors, or stared down the manager disdainfully whenever he was pulled from a game, divorced his cancer-stricken wife, and cavorted with the chicken & beer crowd during the 2011 collapse. Instead, after being part of a WS title here, and without the perceived ringleader (Beckett) to egg him on and lead him astray, he became the great teammate fans don't really know, the guy who sacrificed himself by pitching through the pain that ultimately required Tommy John surgery, the guy who just isn't that comfortable with the press and is often misunderstood. Frankly I've never believed the asshole-ish tendencies vacated him, and that his rebuilt image was carefully constructed for public consumption -- probably at Farrell's behest. So his request (assuming it's true) doesn't really surprise me either. But it's probably most closely related to, and exacerbated by, Lester's situation.
https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/494634210851045376Corsi said:
link to tweet
#hugwatch
For those on mobile it says the Marlins pulled one of their "top pitching prospects" after 46 pitches tonight with no sign of injury. It's Domingo German, who is the 12th ranked prospect in their system according to mlb.com. Not in any of the mid season prospect lists as far as I can tell.
Here is the write up from mlb.com's system prospect page.
If he goes to an NL team, at least he gets more chances to get rid of his goose egg at the plate.
46 PAs in the regular season and the playoffs, and he's sporting a .000/.025/.000 line. -92 OPS+.
Kind of tongue in cheek, obviously, but assuming he ends up with 25 to 30 PAs in the regular season for an NL club in August and September, that's like -.3 or -.4 WAR. Not a huge deal, but also not 100 percent negligible.
Edit: Sorry, Lester obviously. Meant for the other thread, although, in fairness, there's not a huge difference between the threads!
46 PAs in the regular season and the playoffs, and he's sporting a .000/.025/.000 line. -92 OPS+.
Kind of tongue in cheek, obviously, but assuming he ends up with 25 to 30 PAs in the regular season for an NL club in August and September, that's like -.3 or -.4 WAR. Not a huge deal, but also not 100 percent negligible.
Edit: Sorry, Lester obviously. Meant for the other thread, although, in fairness, there's not a huge difference between the threads!
By the way, tomorrow night is Clay Buchholz's charity bowling event. Obviously they scheduled it for one of the team's few home off-nights during the summer , but I doubt anyone gave much thought to it coinciding with the trade deadline.
I suspect the mood will be... subdued.
I suspect the mood will be... subdued.