Propose Your Celtics Draft Pick Trades Here

[nighthob]

I don't think that makes any sense.

In one ear, I have you telling me that Noel's going to end up getting a max deal (or hugely overpaid, at least).

In the other, I've got nighthob telling me it's a buyer's market for centers and Noel has no value.

I understand the Hinkiemaniacs are embittered, but you guys really need to let it go. Teams don't mortgage their future in trades for centers just because they're centers, because every year centers hit free agency and they can acquire an alternative for just cash. Now, if you have a C that projects as a top 30 guy in the league? Well that's valuable. But mostly because he's a top thirty player.

We had this exact same discussion years ago when the topic was point guards. Point guards have no unique positional value. Saying "Player X is a pure, pass first point guard, that makes him valuable!" was untrue then. And people would always turn to the example of Top 5 Player in the NBA Chris Paul as proof. But CP3's value was that he was a player playing an at all time great level, regardless of position.

Philadelphia's only bet in that direction was Joel Embiid, unfortunately the injuries foiled them there. Noel and Okafor are roleplayers of varying value, and I think that Noel's is greater because defensive metrics suggest that he could be a better defensive player if he were on a better team. But how much is that worth when you have to pay him market rate next summer? The suggestion from Givony is that that's worth a mid first round pick. Do you know what else was worth a mid first round pick? Jeff Teague. So apparently the "troll" was right again.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

We had this exact same discussion years ago when the topic was point guards.

Actually, we've never had a conversation. You've talked at me a bunch, though.

 

[Devizier]

Talk to me why Noel for 3 doesn't work for the Celtics. Isn't he the kind of big you want defending the rim and cleaning up rebounds in today's NBA? I realize he's not a shooter.

Because he's a restricted free agent next year. Based on past contracts for similar players, you could expect his RFA extension to be in the 5/$60 range.

ETA: nouns

 

[Statman]

Because he's a restricted free agent next year. Based on past contracts for similar players, you could expect his RFA extension to be in the 5/$60 range.

A RFA extension at 5/$60M is chump change with the salary cap going past $100M. The salary floor is likely to be around $90M. We gotta spend that money anyway so why not do that deal for Noel if he proves he is worth it?

 

[Statman]

From a Bucks reporter:

According to sources, the Bucks and Celtics are still exploring a potential deal that would send Middleton to the Celtics. Middleton, who can also play small forward, is coming off a breakthrough season. He averaged 18.2 points and 3.8 rebounds. He is a top-flight shooter, connecting on 40 percent of his treys last season.

One of the trade scenarios, a source said, is packaging Middleton with veteran center Greg Monroe, whom the Bucks have been seriously shopping. It is known the Celtics have had interest in Monroe for a long time.

In return for Middleton and Monroe, the Bucks could possibly acquire two first-round picks from the Celtics in today’s draft: Nos. 16 and 23, along with another player.

http://www.woelfelspressbox.com/blog-entry/24/will-bucks-celtics-play-lets-make-a-deal

 

[nighthob]

Actually, we've never had a conversation. You've talked at me a bunch, though.

You may not have been here then, but you can ask HRB for corroboration, the "point guards are valuable because they're so rare!!!" debate raged on here for years. While the league was awash in them. We're having the exact same conversation now about centers. But as even you could only construct a list seven teams long, that included teams that already had starting centers, you demonstrated my point for me. And one of those seven teams just acquired another center, so the available trade market's even smaller now.

Robin Lopez is also a pretty good comp for what Noel is likely to command on the open market. I think that Noel's upside is such that there's a good likelihood that he exceeds the good Lopez brother as a defensive roleplayer, but under the old cap rules Ropez got 4/55 (with the caveat that part of the inflation was due to the pending cap increase). So it's very likely that the toll on Noel is in the $16-$18 million range long term, and that impacts your ability to sign free agents, even in this market. And hence why his value is dampened. Because you would essentially be trading for one of your big free agent signings next summer (assuming the price doesn't get ugly).

 

[DJnVa]

Middleton and keep the #3?

Me likey.

 

[nighthob]

From a Bucks reporter:

According to sources, the Bucks and Celtics are still exploring a potential deal that would send Middleton to the Celtics. Middleton, who can also play small forward, is coming off a breakthrough season. He averaged 18.2 points and 3.8 rebounds. He is a top-flight shooter, connecting on 40 percent of his treys last season.

One of the trade scenarios, a source said, is packaging Middleton with veteran center Greg Monroe, whom the Bucks have been seriously shopping. It is known the Celtics have had interest in Monroe for a long time.

In return for Middleton and Monroe, the Bucks could possibly acquire two first-round picks from the Celtics in today’s draft: Nos. 16 and 23, along with another player.

http://www.woelfelspressbox.com/blog-entry/24/will-bucks-celtics-play-lets-make-a-deal

Just reading that I had to go rub one out. God do I hope that's true. Even if the player is Marcus Smart.

 

[thehitcat]

Yeah that deal would be amazing even if Monroe is only a 20 minute player in year one and traded later on. Good shooter and wing defender and we still get to pick 3rd? Yes PLEASE!

 

[cardiacs]

I would love this to happen!

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

You may not have been here then, but you can ask HRB for corroboration, the "point guards are valuable because they're so rare!!!" debate raged on here for years. While the league was awash in them. We're having the exact same conversation now about centers. But as even you could only construct a list seven teams long, that included teams that already had starting centers, you demonstrated my point for me. And one of those seven teams just acquired another center, so the available trade market's even smaller now.

Robin Lopez is also a pretty good comp for what Noel is likely to command on the open market. I think that Noel's upside is such that there's a good likelihood that he exceeds the good Lopez brother as a defensive roleplayer, but under the old cap rules Ropez got 4/55 (with the caveat that part of the inflation was due to the pending cap increase). So it's very likely that the toll on Noel is in the $16-$18 million range long term, and that impacts your ability to sign free agents, even in this market. And hence why his value is dampened. Because you would essentially be trading for one of your big free agent signings next summer (assuming the price doesn't get ugly).

Again, no, we're not having the exact same conversation. Because you don't actually read what I write. Like every interaction you have here, you respond to some weird strawman you've created. In this case, it's Hinkiemania. In another thread now, you're on the verge of going off the rails about Klay Thompson leaving Golden State if Durant goes there. It's literally the exact same pattern with you every time. You're don't respond to what people say.

That's perfectly evidenced by the fact that I am currently arguing in another thread for that exact same valuation of Nerlens Noel. My point all along, throughout all of this, wasn't that Noel has insane value. It was that Jeff Teague made no fucking sense at all for the Sixers, and if your options are Teague or keeping Noel, you keep Noel until something that makes more sense comes along. I never suggested what that might be, and the only attempt I made at projecting Sixers moves was to say they should acquire a point guard by overpaying for a league average guy in free agency because that only costs money, and not the Noel asset + money (which is what Teague would inevitably cost).

So no, we aren't having a conversation. You, as usual, have completely ignored 90% of what I've said.

 

[MillarTime]

Middleton and keep the #3?

Me likey.

I would love this to happen!

 

[Cellar-Door]

deadline to trade draft picks has passed. Enjoy the silly hat swaps.

 

[DJnVa]

MIddleton shoots 40% from 3, 88% from the line (and doubled his FT/game this season), and he also just about doubled his assists/game as well. What's his defensive rep?

 

[DisgruntledSoxFan77]

From a Bucks reporter:



http://www.woelfelspressbox.com/blog-entry/24/will-bucks-celtics-play-lets-make-a-deal

Now that's a deal I'd LOVE to see happen! *Which means it couldn't possibly happen*

 

[Devizier]

A RFA extension at 5/$60M is chump change with the salary cap going past $100M. The salary floor is likely to be around $90M. We gotta spend that money anyway so why not do that deal for Noel if he proves he is worth it?

I'm just projecting Asik's contract to the current cap conditions. If the cap really explodes past 100M as projected, Noel's number goes up accordingly. That might be a fine investment, but a high-dollar RFA contract for a roleplayer like Noel isn't really how you build a bonafide contender. The exception would be if you project Noel to have a massive breakout on the offensive end, but I don't think anyone is making that projection right now (and Noel's market bears that out).

 

[nighthob]

Again, no, we're not having the exact same conversation. Because you don't actually read what I write. Like every interaction you have here, you respond to some weird strawman you've created. In this case, it's Hinkiemania. In another thread now, you're on the verge of going off the rails about Klay Thompson leaving Golden State if Durant goes there.

Actually what I keep saying, and you keep deliberately misconstruing, is that the Warriors need to jettison their bench in order to turn Klay Thompson into a 3 & D roleplayer, whereas they can, after getting Durant, turn Thompson into a package of depth players and draft picks to keep themselves at the top of the league.

That's perfectly evidenced by the fact that I am currently arguing in another thread for that exact same valuation of Nerlens Noel.

No, you kept insisting that a mid first round pick was far too little and that the Sixers should hold on to him and match any offers regardless next summer. Mine was that their former GM recklessly bet the house on a declining asset, and centers as such don't have excess trade value by virtue of being centers.

It was that Jeff Teague made no fucking sense at all for the Sixers, and if your options are Teague or keeping Noel, you keep Noel until something that makes more sense comes along.

Clearly a team starting Ish Smith at the PG spot has no need of an upgrade.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Actually what I keep saying, and you keep deliberately misconstruing, is that the Warriors need to jettison their bench in order to turn Klay Thompson into a 3 & D roleplayer, whereas they can, after getting Durant, turn Thompson into a package of depth players and draft picks to keep themselves at the top of the league.

No, you kept insisting that a mid first round pick was far too little and that the Sixers should hold on to him and match any offers regardless next summer. Mine was that their former GM recklessly bet the house on a declining asset, and centers as such don't have excess trade value by virtue of being centers.

Clearly a team starting Ish Smith at the PG spot has no need of an upgrade.

Good news. I responded to all that and more in the thread where we were talking about that. That would be a great place to discuss that. You can start by quoting where I said a "first round pick was far too little."

Except the Durant stuff, I didn't respond to any of that. So I don't know why you think I'm missing something.

 

[zenter]

MIddleton shoots 40% from 3, 88% from the line (and doubled his FT/game this season), and he also just about doubled his assists/game as well. What's his defensive rep?

Very good. I'd peg it somewhere below Bradley (fantastic) and above Turner (above-average). He has length and at his height can play super-small-ball-4 on offense, and 3 on D (with Smart at 4, if he were still on the team). He's a pure wing, though.

 

[DJnVa]

If tonight ends with Middleton and Dunn I'll be pretty stoked.

 

[jmm57]

Assuming the player is Bradley/Smart that has been rumored in other deals, Kris Dunn would seem to slot right in at #3? I get the feeling that this is a bit of a pipe dream, but would be pretty perfect.

 

[zenter]

Realistically, it would have to be Bradley, right? Or am I wrong and Monroe's stock so low that he is an anchor on the Bucks side of the deal?

 

[DisgruntledSoxFan77]

I'm starting to really want Dunn myself. If for no other reason, than the rest of the league seems to want him and I just want to ruin their night!

 

[BigSoxFan]

I'm starting to really want Dunn myself. If for no other reason, than the rest of the league seems to want him and I just want to ruin their night!

I want Dunn because I think he's going to be a really good pro.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Realistically, it would have to be Bradley, right? Or am I wrong and Monroe's stock so low that he is an anchor on the Bucks side of the deal?

Tough to say, Pelton suggested that Milwaukee would trade him for 31 and 51, so his value isn't that high.

 

[zenter]

I want Dunn because I think he's going to be a really good pro.

Agreed. That interview with Woj put me over the top. Huge temperament fit.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Monroe has an opt-out next summer that you have to assume he would exercise in advance of yet another cap bump. Worth it.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Woj says it so it must be true.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Would Monroe really exercise it? If his trade value is a 31 and a 51, I doubt he'd get the same deal again on the open market. Would he actually be a fit on the C's? He doesn't really play defense, but he'd have a decent role as first big off the bench I guess. Middleton would be nice.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Would Monroe really exercise it? If his trade value is a 31 and a 51, I doubt he'd get the same deal again on the open market. Would he actually be a fit on the C's? He doesn't really play defense, but he'd have a decent role as first big off the bench I guess. Middleton would be nice.

I think he probably would. It's only a 1 year 17.8M option. Ton of teams are likely to have cap space, so he gets to lock up a multiyear deal for something in the same range at age 27 and 31/32 instead of 28 and 32/33.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I think he probably would. It's only a 1 year 17.8M option. Ton of teams are likely to have cap space, so he gets to lock up a multiyear deal for something in the same range at age 27 and 31/32 instead of 28 and 32/33.

Oh, wasn't aware of the length. Knowing that now, I agree he would.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

The writer who floated the Middleton/Monroe deal is apparently known for pulling stuff out his ass. Grain of salt.

DraftExpress put out a new mock a few minutes ago with Bender going to Denver @ 7.

Sign me up for a Gallinari trade if that happens.