Offseason rumors

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TimScribble

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Same guy that tweeted out a Hernandez deal a week ago. I don’t think anyone believes him.
 

joe dokes

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Im guessing the source on last years budget is Bloom or some other recently canned FO type. As for the "we have to shed payroll," that's an agent.
 

soxhop411

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View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1741488098956005377?s=46&t=7XazH1NKZP26a4WUZikbkQ


According to a baseball source, the Red Sox have told at least one free agent target that they need to shed more payroll before pursuing him as aggressively as they want to.
From Cotillo’s article related to that tweet:



If all true, pessimistic view - guess we have FSG’s valuation per year on the Sox nowadays. :|

Optimistic - you are leaving enough under the line for a big add at the deadline if the season plays out that way.
Im guessing the source on last years budget is Bloom or some other recently canned FO type. As for the "we have to shed payroll," that's an agent.
Yup. There is no way in hell that source would be someone currently working within the sox fo.
Taking the above tweet in context with the entire article, i feel like his source is an agent
 

SouthernBoSox

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Do we know yet that Grissom is a much better version of Rafaela? The Braves also got $17M back in that deal. These details also matter.
They are very different because Rafaela’s defense provides a legitimate value floor. But Grissoms hit tool is so much better but the defense is uncertain.

I would rank Grissom ahead of Rafaela and put him 4th in the system behind Roman, Mayer, and Teel.
 

sezwho

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When you think about it, a “throttle” is pretty much the same thing as a “cap”.
I do find it hard to believe this story though, both given the general secrecy noted above and the fact that they would stall a big FA offer waiting to dump salary just seems hard to conceive. Like even if we accept the cap number (not saying I do) the idea they wouldn’t temporarily exceed it on paper to achieve a significant goal doesn’t pass small test.

To be fair, full throttling could also be wrapping your hands around something’s neck and choking the life out of it…but I’m on the Breslow Bandwagon!
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Im guessing the source on last years budget is Bloom or some other recently canned FO type. As for the "we have to shed payroll," that's an agent.
Or an agent playing games because he's not getting what he wants from the Sox or wants to leverage another team into making a (better) offer.


It's been pointed out before but it's worth pointing out again. The Sox front office doesn't seem to leak. So all these rumors about them are most likely coming from somewhere else, and we should consider what kind of agenda those "somewhere else" sources might have before we jump to conclusions (or get upset or get excited).
 

joe dokes

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Do we know yet that Grissom is a much better version of Rafaela? The Braves also got $17M back in that deal. These details also matter.
Rafaela is one of those players that I think other FO's views will vary widely. IMO, I don't think his hitting will hold up; many scouts have said as much.; whereas the consensus on Grissom is his hitting approach will translate. Obviously the tradeoff is on defense.
I am ready to include Rafaela in a trade to one of those teams that think he's going to be really good. Unless Breslow is one of those teams....then its "go Craig!!!!"
 

absintheofmalaise

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@E5 Yaz tried finding him on The Athletic site and was unable to when he "broke" the Hernandez signing. He wasn't there. The post is in one of the Hernandez threads. IMO, Judgeaport isn't a credible source until he actually breaks some news.
 

jmanny24

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The Athletic has no record of writers named Judgeaport.
A simple look at the name and you can tell it's a riff on Ian Rappaport IMO. As for the pitching I think (and hope) there are 2 more Ps coming that would push Giolito to the No. 4 spot. I'm hoping Montgomery/Imanaga and 1 from a trade
 

simplicio

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They are very different because Rafaela’s defense provides a legitimate value floor. But Grissoms hit tool is so much better but the defense is uncertain.

I would rank Grissom ahead of Rafaela and put him 4th in the system behind Roman, Mayer, and Teel.
He's obviously still young so I get comparing him to the prospects we're familiar with, but he's not a minor league property anymore; he lost rookie eligibility in 2022.
 

joe dokes

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I’m more interested in finding out who the target is than who is the source of the tweet.
I don't care who it is, either. But knowing the source's role is a way of trying to assess whether there really is such a "target" in the first place.
 

TapeAndPosts

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@E5 Yaz tried finding him on The Athletic site and was unable to when he "broke" the Hernandez signing. He wasn't there. The post is in one of the Hernandez threads. IMO, Judgeaport isn't a credible source until he actually breaks some news.
Yes, not only does "Judgeaport" not show up on a search for authors at the Athletic, but his tweets seem very.... fan-like, not reporter-like. I'll need to hear about Snell from someone else before I give it any credence.
 

YTF

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Rafaela is one of those players that I think other FO's views will vary widely. IMO, I don't think his hitting will hold up; many scouts have said as much.; whereas the consensus on Grissom is his hitting approach will translate. Obviously the tradeoff is on defense.
I am ready to include Rafaela in a trade to one of those teams that think he's going to be really good. Unless Breslow is one of those teams....then its "go Craig!!!!"
Mine was just a sincere question as @SouthernBoSox felt that Grissom was a much better player. Just what what I know, both are quite young ATM, have limited MLB experience with different skills that they excel at.
 

bosox1534

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This Judgeaport’s profile pic is Mac Jones he obviously isn’t a real reporter and he’s a troll account.
 

Sad Sam Jones

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I‘ve been thinking of the above for a while.

One of the deals I can see making sense for both sides (and that I think both would consider) is a Duran for Logan T Allen swap in Cleveland.

There is zero chance Williams is available at all, and I really don’t think the Fightin’ Jake Taylors would deal Bibee for Mayer. Conversely, I’m not dealing Mayer for Allen, clearly. But I could see them meeting in the middle there.

Allen is not necessarily a SP1 or SP2 candidate in my opinion (too many walks, not elite enough stuff in his profile for me to project more) but I also think he’s a good bet to be an SP3/4. He’s kind of like another version of Crawford. That’s about what I think Duran types could return (same for a Yorke + Bleis package - but Cleveland already has Giménez, Rocchio is their best prospect and they have a more advanced version of Bleis in Valera).

BTV checks this out, fwiw, and calls it a minor overpay by Boston. But for 5 years of control of someone that isn’t Bello but is another version of Crawford sounds about right for Duran.

Sign Hernandez for LF and bank on Bello, Crawford and Allen in the rotation while Breslow builds up the upper minors pitching - I don’t mind that at all.
I'm a big Chris Antonetti fan, but if he did that deal, I'd want him fired. Cleveland has plenty of outfielders to throw against the wall – what they need to do is move on from a couple of them in favor of a sure upgrade who adds power to the weakest hitting outfield in baseball. Duran doesn't fit that description in the slightest and is another lefty hitter in a sea of lefties. He'd also be not only the worst defensive outfielder on the roster, but make the rest of the defense worse by forcing their Gold Glove leftfielder to center. The Guardians only have five viable major league starters on the roster right now: Bieber, McKenzie, Bibbee, Williams and Allen... two of them had only a couple of September starts to show they're healthy after arm injuries. They need to be reinforcing their rotation depth, not putting themselves in a situation where acquiring more veteran starters is a requirement just to make it through the spring.
 

bringbackburks

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I think the notion that an agent would want the Sox in the bidding has to be discounted at this point. There's nothing in recent history to suggest a willingness to spend money in a way that would drive up bidding any more than having teams like the blue jay's or the cubs involved. They're not spending like the Yankees, Mets or Dodgers.
 

OCD SS

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Does Snell seem like he lines up with the characteristics Breslow looks for in stuff and command (I mean the command doesn't seem good)? His IP totals haven't been good except for the years he wins CYA.

And what would the AAV have to be for Boras to take a 3 year deal (and for Snell to do so on the East Coast)? This doesn't really even pass the smell test as a rumor.
 

E5 Yaz

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This Judgeaport’s profile pic is Mac Jones he obviously isn’t a real reporter and he’s a troll account.
Yeah, I mentioned that the last time. We've got to do a better job as a board of separating reality from nonsense
 

Ferm Sheller

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Does anyone personally know an adult, say 25 or older, who posts fake sports news on internet? If so, what are they like otherwise? Are they failures in all aspects of life? (Really hoping that only kids do this, but I know better.)
 

SouthernBoSox

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Yeah, I mentioned that the last time. We've got to do a better job as a board of separating reality from nonsense
It is tough in todays world. The Sale trade came to light about an hour before Passan broke it from a random SB Nation Atlanta Twitter.
 

YTF

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I think the notion that an agent would want the Sox in the bidding has to be discounted at this point. There's nothing in recent history to suggest a willingness to spend money in a way that would drive up bidding any more than having teams like the blue jay's or the cubs involved. They're not spending like the Yankees, Mets or Dodgers.
They have a need, they have money, they were one of the top 5-6 teams in on Yamamoto, just spent $19M on Giolito and have a new POBO who just moved Chris Sale and doesn't appear to be done yet. Those seem reasons enough for any agent to try to use the Sox as leverage.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think the notion that an agent would want the Sox in the bidding has to be discounted at this point. There's nothing in recent history to suggest a willingness to spend money in a way that would drive up bidding any more than having teams like the blue jay's or the cubs involved. They're not spending like the Yankees, Mets or Dodgers.
Do they have to spend like the Yankees, Mets, or Dodgers to be a leverage point for a player negotiating with a team like the Giants or Astros or Diamondbacks?

One season of the team dipping out of the top 5-10 in total payroll in the midst of a semi-rebuild does not suddenly make the team a small market organization.
 

Harry Hooper

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Yeah, I mentioned that the last time. We've got to do a better job as a board of separating reality from nonsense
According to a Google search, the surname Judgeaport does not exist for a real person. Enough already.



I think the notion that an agent would want the Sox in the bidding has to be discounted at this point. There's nothing in recent history to suggest a willingness to spend money in a way that would drive up bidding any more than having teams like the blue jay's or the cubs involved. They're not spending like the Yankees, Mets or Dodgers.

Yes and no. If you're an agent who has Team X right up to the point of pulling the trigger on a FA, getting out there the idea that a team that wasn't a factor in the pursuit might jump in late could be a bit of a cattle prod to get over the finish line.
 

E5 Yaz

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It is tough in todays world. The Sale trade came to light about an hour before Passan broke it from a random SB Nation Atlanta Twitter.
When a "source" already has been proven to be a nonsense account, there's no need to even check that account again
 

soxhop411

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Its an agent full stop. This isnt the first time Chis and masslive wrote an article this week alone that essentially said the sox are cheap.
And I highly doubt Craig would have taken this job of if these “financial shackles” were true. IMO the sox would have promoted internally if that was the case.
 

OCD SS

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They have a need, they have money (1), they were one of the top 5-6 teams in on Yamamoto (2), just spent $19M on Giolito and have a new POBO who just moved Chris Sale and doesn't appear to be done yet. Those seem reasons enough for any agent to try to use the Sox as leverage.
1. Do they, though? Team profits and flexibility, yes, but has Breslow & Baseball Ops been given that space in an actual budget?

2. Eh, if they were in on him in a real way he would've visited Fenway. They did just enough to get their names added to some reports, but not enough to be in danger of actually having to tender YY a contract. Their pursuit was basically about maintaining a public facing image.
 

chawson

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Not even 24 hours before Cotillo starts catastrophizing again.

I remember when an Opening Day payroll of $8 million under the lux tax threshold was sensibly reported as a standard cushion for deadline additions. Remember when it was reported last summer that we were poking around on Verlander? Thats why you start with an OD payroll of $225 if you’re trying to reset the tax and stay under $233M.

What the hell is with this lede?
Weeks of inaction swiftly turned to chaos for the Red Sox on the final weekend of 2023…”
Chaos! We signed a starting pitcher and traded another in a deal that’s almost universally supported by the fan base. How is it chaos?

He’s writing from a preconceived lens, and it’s conveniently the one that gets everyone riled up. How is the anchor of this story that “(the agent for) at least one (aka precisely one) free agent said that the Red Sox need to reduce payroll before pursuing him more aggressively”? With the amount of inferences he’s making elsewhere in the article, and the fact that that he’s summarizing (not quoting anonymously) that person’s account, he may just mean that the Sox are looking to trade Jansen — a guy with a substantial salary — for perfectly normal reasons. There are also 40-man implications to signing a FA at this point.

Breslow and Kennedy both said in November, that “financial constraints won’t be a limiting factor” — does he include that info? No. He just hits us yet again with the cynical “full throttle” comment, taken out of context.

I’m not a fan of Cotillo’s reporting.
 
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Whoop-La White

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Wasn't it just a week ago the team was looking to sign Robert Stephenson? I know rumors fly all over but this one led to speculation they would deal from the bullpen surplus, which actually made some sense. If staying under the threshold remains the priority then it has to impact every potential add, not just Teoscar or whoever the "target" is.
 

chrisfont9

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Not even 24 hours before Cotillo starts catastrophizing again.

I remember when an Opening Day payroll of $8 million under the lux tax threshold was sensibly reported as a standard cushion for deadline additions. Remember when it was reported last summer that we were poking around on Verlander? Thats why you start with an OD payroll of $225 if you’re trying to reset the tax and stay under $233M.

What the hell is with this lede?



Chaos! We signed a starting pitcher and traded another in a deal that’s almost universally supported by the fan base. How is it chaos?

He’s writing from a preconceived lens, and it’s conveniently the one that gets everyone riled up. How is the anchor of this story that “(the agent for) at least one (aka precisely one) free agent said that the Red Sox need to reduce payroll before pursuing him more aggressively”? With the amount of inferences he’s making elsewhere in the article, and the fact that that he’s summarizing (not quoting anonymously) that person’s account, he may just mean that the Sox are looking to trade Jansen for perfectly normal reasons. There are also 40-man implications to signing a FA at this point.

Breslow and Kennedy both said in November, that “financial constraints won’t be a limiting factor” — does he include that info? No. He just hits us yet again with the cynical “full throttle” comment, taken out of context.

I’m not a fan of Cotillo’s reporting.
Someone in an Athletic thread posted about a contact who's inside the industry and who reports that free agents are being told that they should be careful about Boston and its incredibly negative media environment. Whether this is real, I dunno, but it checks out. Whether actual players should and do care about this, I dunno, but I wouldn't blame them. Not that the media has to cheerlead the teams by any means, but when you see certain people (Shaughnessy, Cotillo now) out there fomenting the "super mad because the Sox aren't doing anything" immediately followed by the "super mad the Sox did something" anger, it feels like an actual problem to some degree.
 

sezwho

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Does anyone personally know an adult, say 25 or older, who posts fake sports news on internet? If so, what are they like otherwise? Are they failures in all aspects of life? (Really hoping that only kids do this, but I know better.)
No, but I did work with a guy on a landscape crew (him early 20s and me anther decade older or so) that occasionally puts his poo on public restroom walls. Never met that person before either. This is kind of like that.
 

StuckOnYouk

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I'm probably in the minority, but if Rafaela truly is GG caliber in CF, than why not just deal with his potential weak bat by hitting him 9th and use him and his minimal salary over 6 years to spend on other holes? You don't need a hitter at every position, especially up the middle.
 

Ferm Sheller

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No, but I did work with a guy on a landscape crew (him early 20s and me anther decade older or so) that occasionally puts his poo on public restroom walls. Never met that person before either. This is kind of like that.
Yikes! I'm sorry I asked. :)
 

YTF

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1. Do they, though? Team profits and flexibility, yes, but has Breslow & Baseball Ops been given that space in an actual budget?

2. Eh, if they were in on him in a real way he would've visited Fenway. They did just enough to get their names added to some reports, but not enough to be in danger of actually having to tender YY a contract. Their pursuit was basically about maintaining a public facing image.
And is that not enough for agents to use the Sox as leverage?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Does Snell seem like he lines up with the characteristics Breslow looks for in stuff and command (I mean the command doesn't seem good)? His IP totals haven't been good except for the years he wins CYA.

And what would the AAV have to be for Boras to take a 3 year deal (and for Snell to do so on the East Coast)? This doesn't really even pass the smell test as a rumor.
Agree on the 3 year deal part…but Giolito has pretty poor command and they just signed him. You can only deal with what’s available. At the right contract, Snell would be a good add, I think, albeit not my first choice.
 

RedOctober3829

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Its an agent full stop. This isnt the first time Chis and masslive wrote an article this week alone that essentially said the sox are cheap.
And I highly doubt Craig would have taken this job of if these “financial shackles” were true. IMO the sox would have promoted internally if that was the case.
You do know that CB was hired after many other executives didn’t even want to get involved with the interview process. Boston is not a favorable destination right now.
 

PedroisGod

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This feels spot on to me.

I just don’t know who the young cost controlled starter is. The Braves just gave up a much better version of Rafaela for a 35 year old Chris Sale.

The cost will be out of this world
I'm generally down on Rafaela because I share the concerns about his plate discipline, but I think he'd have more value than what we'd think. Grissom was never a top 100 prospect. Rafaela was #72 on MLB.com's most recent rankings, and Keith Law had him at #48. I think there's a good chance he could be used as the prospect centerpiece for a controllable starter.
 

Diamond Don Aase

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Its an agent full stop. This isnt the first time Chis and masslive wrote an article this week alone that essentially said the sox are cheap.
And I highly doubt Craig would have taken this job of if these “financial shackles” were true. IMO the sox would have promoted internally if that was the case.
I highly doubt that Kim Ng would have taken this job if these “financial shackles” were true. Or Sam Fuld. Or Brandon Gomes. Or James Click. Or Derek Falvey. Or Mike Hill. Or Jon Daniels. Or Mike Hazen. Or Amiel Sawdaye. Or Raquel Ferreira.

As @RedOctober3829 noted, Breslow was likely not the Red Sox’ first choice. Or perhaps even their fourth choice. It is reasonable to wonder if Boston’s newfound frugality could have been a contributing factor to the candidate field being reduced from assistant managers to assistants to the manager.
 

jbupstate

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I highly doubt that Kim Ng would have taken this job if these “financial shackles” were true. Or Sam Fuld. Or Brandon Gomes. Or James Click. Or Derek Falvey. Or Mike Hill. Or Jon Daniels. Or Mike Hazen. Or Amiel Sawdaye. Or Raquel Ferreira.

As @RedOctober3829 noted, Breslow was likely not the Red Sox’ first choice. Or perhaps even their fourth choice. It is reasonable to wonder if Boston’s newfound frugality could have been a contributing factor to the candidate field being reduced from assistant managers to assistants to the manager.
Who were their first choices? You just mentioned a bunch but never have I seen who their choice were. Maybe just maybe Breslow would have won the interview process. But the shackles stuff is a reach. The reporting structure with Cora in the mix is way more likely.

Only Yamamoto is worth the risk due to his age and nothing guarantees the Sox paying $400m brings him to Fenway. The Yankees and Mets who only care about winning couldn’t get it done.

What elite free agent pitching over the past two years put the Sox ahead in the AL East? DeGrom, Rodon, Scherzer, Verlander?
 
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