NFL Week 4 Gamethread
- Thread starter ifmanis5
- Start date
Tony C said:
There was the 2-14 season and the 26-63 college coaching career, but sure, the criticism is also based on Pats fans being irrational haters.
Careful, you're arguing with someone who adored Tebow. It's like arguing with someone who believes the Earth is 5700 years old.Shelterdog said:
Fred, you're right. I noticed the same thing about Foles. He never steps up. Whenever there is a pressure, he just automatically back pedals. If he would step up, it would help his offensive lineman in their blocking as well. Something you'd think they'd work on with him.
Shelterdog said:
Yes, like this is a fair representation of his career. I didn't say anything about Pats fans being irrational haters, but this post is definitely an irrational argument.
And then I see Captain Laddie chimed in --speaking of irrational haters....
Tony C said:
So, what do you think is a fair representation of his career?
He won 14, 10, and 2 games in three years in Indy; obviously, a big chunk of the drop the third year is Peyton. But do you know many NFL/Colts fans who were defending him when canned? I don't.
He was horrible at Wake; if you feel otherwise, curious why.
He seemed to be very successful with the Ravens as OC--the change when he took over feels quite safe to attribute to him, so that and his Indy career make him look like a good OC.
But as a HC, where would you put him?
How would you characterize the overall track record? I
You didn't imply that Pats fans irrationally dislike Caldwell because of his facial expressions (or lack thereof)?Tony C said:
Would you be excited if the Pats hired him as OC?
Tony C said:
My feelings on Tebow were, and are, completely rational and it would seem that every front office in the entire NFL agrees with me.
Also: Caldwell wasn't anything special as a coach in Indianapolis and in Baltimore. He was entirely dependent on Peyton in Indy and his playcalling in Baltimore was uninspiring -- they finished 29th in yards and 25th in points when he was the full-time offensive coordinator. The critique -- from across the league, not from Patriots fans alone -- is that he's never been successful at any level or in any job without the help of Peyton Manning. And it's accurate so far.
But really, let me know what you think of me and my stance as an "irrational hater". Please.
CaptainLaddie said:
I'm no fan of Caldwell and fundamentally agree with you; however, his work the year he took over from Cameron can't be completely ignored, either. Was he lucky? Perhaps (certainly, they deserved to lose to Denver)....but results still were there.
It's a rational response to an idiotic statement: I presented two specific and compelling reasons why people would think JC sucks.Tony C said:
It's not just the face.
I mean, he took over in late December and was the OC for -- what -- 7 games? And in those games they averaged 27.28 points per game. Pretty good. Of course, under the old OC they averaged 27.58 points per game, so it's not like he improved their offense on a points per game basis (granted 4 of the games he was the OC for were in the playoffs, so that's something to consider).PedroKsBambino said:
CaptainLaddie said:
indeed, something to consider. Also, watching the games, he seemed to clearly help Flacco's decision making. Again, it's a small sample and there's some luck involved, but I do think there's some reason to think he's a good OC, or at least can be a good QB coach/mentor. To small degree we can actually assess these things from the outside.
I do not find the case that he's a good HC to be at all compelling, though...as others noted, the case seems to be 'didn't screw up too badly with Peyton as his QB' and I don't find that very strong.
The biggest thing that helped Flacco that year was inserting McKinnie into the offensive line. Flacco has always been good with ample time and space; the offensive line play was the biggest key to the Ravens' stretch run that year (IMO).
Ed Hillel said:
I thought it was a pie-in-the-sky idea, but he was generally viewed as the best prospect since Deon Sanders (or something like that) at a premium position.
I thought he'd be a good pro. I also thought he wasn't the best CB on his college team.SeoulSoxFan said:
I never thought it was realistic for the Pats to trade up for Claiborne. I definitely thought they should have grabbed Mathieu (though he hasn't been lucky injury-wise either).