NBA trade season

Cellar-Door

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Well Brow and Boogie would be an insane frontcourt, but what does NO even have to get it done?

Edit- I assume it would be 2 1sts (probably unprotected?) Buddy Hield as the starting point.
Salary fill could be either Tyreke's expiring, or Sol Hill if they like him on that contract.

Asik works too, but I think Hield and 2 1sts is already light and he's a negative.
 

DannyDarwinism

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At the very least, if Butler's still in play, it'd be nice for the Bulls to at least have to consider that the Celtics are making headway on Boogie.
 

heavyde050

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If Cousins is in play and the Celts don't at least try (with the Nets' picks and players), it will be disappointing.
I hope Danny doesn't settle for going after Butler instead of Cousins.
Butler would really help the Celts because he is a great player, but Cousins is on a different level and he fills a team need.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Many ask why Gordon would leave Salt Lake City. I was in Salt Lake last weekend for the Celts/Jazz game. It was Saturday and downtown felt like a ghost town. It is the most boring big city in the country. All the cons of a big city but not of the pros. It sucks.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Going from interest in Okafor to Cousins... Heh. Would the C's be willing to top that offer? A Davis/Cousins team makes the playoffs, making those picks less valuable. If they trade Cousins to the Celtics, the Nets still suck.

edit: It'd be hard not to top it really. Any pick would be in the 20 range. What is the point?
 

DannyDarwinism

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Especially considering that Boogie, Brow and Jrue could be a decent team; those picks would be likely late lottery at best. Not even Sactown is dumb enough.
 

Cellar-Door

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Going from interest in Okafor to Cousins... Heh. Would the C's be willing to top that offer? A Davis/Cousins team makes the playoffs, making those picks less valuable. If they trade Cousins to the Celtics, the Nets still suck.
Could they? Easily. Will they? Probably doubtful. It's been long rumored that Brad doesn't want Cousins.
 

Cesar Crespo

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At that low a price, I imagine even Brad would want Cousins. The Nets pick next year and Jaylen Brown is comparable to the NO offer especially since NO is only 2.5 games out of the playoffs this year. Denver is on an upward trajectory too so the NO pick this year might be late lottery. Any of the other ones? I doubt it. Hell, Jaylen and the 2018 Nets pick may be better.
 

Fishy1

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Cousins has got attitude problems for sure, but if you get a chance to acquire a transformational talent like that, you take it.
 

mcpickl

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My God. Kings are looking for McLemore 2.0.
There's no way this is true. Even if New Orleans said to Sacramento, you can have any five assets we own outside of Anthony Davis for Boogie, that's still not enough.

One side or the other is leaking this. Either New Orleans to let teams they're trying to acquire a big from know that they have other options, or less likely Sacramento to raise offers for Boogie.
 

DannyDarwinism

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There's no way this is true. Even if New Orleans said to Sacramento, you can have any five assets we own outside of Anthony Davis for Boogie, that's still not enough.

One side or the other is leaking this. Either New Orleans to let teams they're trying to acquire a big from know that they have other options, or less likely Sacramento to raise offers for Boogie.
From a Sacramento guy:

 

BoSoxFink

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If Cousins is traded and it's not to Boston then Ainge deserves all kinds of criticism. This is what he's been waiting for.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Can't wait for the 3:30 pm tweet on Thursday on how close Danny was to getting Cousins but wouldn't give up Marcus Smart.
Marcus Smart wouldn't prevent a deal from happening but you would have to replace his minutes on the court. Granted the Celtics would be less reliant on a PG than most teams but what do they do when IT4 is on the bench? Avery or Rozier?
 

ifmanis5

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I hope Danny passes on Cousins. Watching this team has been fun. Stevens has built a culture from the ground up built on defense, ball movement and playing smart. Cousins ruins all that the day he walks in and sulks. Plus he's expensive. His salary plus Horford's gets you to about 1/3 of the Luxury Tax threshold. Would much rather they keep their picks and work in Ball of Fultz with better contracts and keep building on the style of play with which they are already having success. Stick with Stevens, IT and the kids and plan long term.
 

heavyde050

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I hope Danny passes on Cousins. Watching this team has been fun. Stevens has built a culture from the ground up built on defense, ball movement and playing smart. Cousins ruins all that the day he walks in and sulks. Plus he's expensive. His salary plus Horford's gets you to about 1/3 of the Luxury Tax threshold. Would much rather they keep their picks and work in Ball of Fultz with better contracts and keep building on the style of play with which they are already having success. Stick with Stevens, IT and the kids and plan long term.
That is an okay plan. But if Ainge insists on trading for a star I really hope it is Cousins over Butler.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I hope Danny passes on Cousins. Watching this team has been fun. Stevens has built a culture from the ground up built on defense, ball movement and playing smart. Cousins ruins all that the day he walks in and sulks. Plus he's expensive. His salary plus Horford's gets you to about 1/3 of the Luxury Tax threshold. Would much rather they keep their picks and work in Ball of Fultz with better contracts and keep building on the style of play with which they are already having success. Stick with Stevens, IT and the kids and plan long term.
Really? Boogie fits the Celtics really well and makes them considerably better this season and beyond. The Cs have assets to get a deal done without gutting their roster too.

As far as Cousins' attitude goes, it's true he has a checkered past but the guy has played for a revolving door coaching regime for his entire career and has had NBA castoffs as teammates. Its not unreasonable to think he might be much more well behaved in a more stable organization with strong management and team culture.
 

Red Averages

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Not very worried about NO or any other team. If Cousins is in play Ainge will get it done. If he's not, we never had a shot anyway.
 

CreedBratton

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Really? Boogie fits the Celtics really well and makes them considerably better this season and beyond. The Cs have assets to get a deal done without gutting their roster too.

As far as Cousins' attitude goes, it's true he has a checkered past but the guy has played for a revolving door coaching regime for his entire career and has had NBA castoffs as teammates. Its not unreasonable to think he might be much more well behaved in a more stable organization with strong management and team culture.
How was Cousins under Calipari? It's been awhile I don't remember.
 

ifmanis5

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As far as Cousins' attitude goes, it's true he has a checkered past but the guy has played for a revolving door coaching regime for his entire career and has had NBA castoffs as teammates. Its not unreasonable to think he might be much more well behaved in a more stable organization with strong management and team culture.
I think you're wishcasting; he's shown zero indication of any of that and plenty of examples of the opposite. In fact, here's a column from 2011.
http://www.espn.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6124031
Here's a far less popular opinion: Somewhere along the way, the system failed Cousins. It could have been in high school, or even before, but it's clear his physical prowess gave him license to remain immature and occasionally out of control. The system was one never-ending apology for poor behavior, because wherever Cousins has been, he's been good for business.
He hasn't made a ton of progress in 6 years. Let him be someone else's problem.
 

rhopkins2323

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I hope Danny passes on Cousins. Watching this team has been fun. Stevens has built a culture from the ground up built on defense, ball movement and playing smart. Cousins ruins all that the day he walks in and sulks. Plus he's expensive. His salary plus Horford's gets you to about 1/3 of the Luxury Tax threshold. Would much rather they keep their picks and work in Ball of Fultz with better contracts and keep building on the style of play with which they are already having success. Stick with Stevens, IT and the kids and plan long term.
100% agree with this. Cousins is a little bit of a risk because he's a head case. Not sure how Cousins will age either. Is he the type of guy to fall off a cliff after 30? He's had his work ethic questioned. That has to be considered.

But Cs are in a position no other team in NBA history has been in. Winning 50 games while getting top 5 picks with high chances at #1 in consecutive years. Not to mention other 1st round picks.

Cs have a shot to be very good for 15 straight years. That's pretty exciting. Especially when the Cavs will likely fall off in a few years. I would hate to throw that chance away for a few years of Cousins.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Just a note: let's not have more posts about 'so and so isn't on the market' because truth is we have no idea, regardless of what someone reports. Let's focus on what makes sense for teams--which is what GMs are considering.
 

slamminsammya

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I hope Danny passes on Cousins. Watching this team has been fun. Stevens has built a culture from the ground up built on defense, ball movement and playing smart. Cousins ruins all that the day he walks in and sulks.
Do you really truly believe this? And I know we love talking about the intangibles like culture and whatnot, but 'defense, ball movement, and playing smart' are products of the players on the floor and the system they are in. While it is true that the coach determines who is on the floor and to some extent what they do when they are out there, its a stretch to say, for example, that Boogie not getting along with George Karl (a 'culture' problem) determines whether he is, lets say, going to step out on the ball handler on pick and rolls or pass out of double teams (a 'defense, ball movement, and playing smart' problem).

It ruins all of that?
 

ifmanis5

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Cs have a shot to be very good for 15 straight years. That's pretty exciting. Especially when the Cavs will likely fall off in a few years. I would hate to throw that chance away for a few years of Cousins.
Agreed. Even with Cousins they won't beat the Cavs, Spurs or Warriors this or next year.
The window isn't now, it's 3-5 years from now assuming health and development.
 

Cesar Crespo

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How does Cousins ruin ball movement? The guy is averaging 6.5 APG over his last 27. The ball doesn't die when it touches his hands.
 

CreedBratton

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Agreed. Even with Cousins they won't beat the Cavs, Spurs or Warriors this or next year.
The window isn't now, it's 3-5 years from now assuming health and development.
While I agree that they won't beat warriors for now regardless. There's a great chance that Fultz/Ball & company won't pan out. I'm a fan of taking the sure thing. Cousins, Butler, George you know for sure are great. You never know With the draft it's a crap shoot obviously.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think you're wishcasting; he's shown zero indication of any of that and plenty of examples of the opposite. In fact, here's a column from 2011.
http://www.espn.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6124031

He hasn't made a ton of progress in 6 years. Let him be someone else's problem.
So you are referring to an article from six years ago when he was 20 years old and an NBA rookie?

To be clear, I don't deny that he has had some emotional issues and he plays with his heart on his sleeve for sure. However I refuse to believe that he hasn't matured a bit since 2011. Setting that aside, the guy is one of the best basketball players on the planet, entering his prime and a beast at a position where quality is scarce. And he fits the Celtics perfectly. I would be surprised if Ainge agrees with your view that the Celtics should pass.
 
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Ed Hillel

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Yea, slow down. Until we know what the package is, or just how insane Cousins actually is, then we just need to slow down.
People got riled up about Butler and were pissed Danny took Brown, and then the package ended up being Brown, the two other Brooklyn firsts, Crowder, Smart, and Bradley.

I'm still not even sure I'm sold on Boogie, but I wouldn't be heartbroken to give up Brown and the 2017 Brooklyn pick. Wouldn't be thrilled, but I know I'm in the minority. I'm not throwing Smart in there too *ducks*, sorry Red.
 

Red Averages

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Agreed. Even with Cousins they won't beat the Cavs, Spurs or Warriors this or next year.
The window isn't now, it's 3-5 years from now assuming health and development.
You dramatically underestimate how good Cousins is.
 

the moops

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Agreed. Even with Cousins they won't beat the Cavs, Spurs or Warriors this or next year.
The window isn't now, it's 3-5 years from now assuming health and development.
Celtics would be about even odds against both the Cavs and Spurs, IMO. Agreed on Warriors though.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The biggest Celtics weaknesses are rebounding and rim protection, Cousins would address both.

Most big men capable of addressing both of those are not space the floor guys, but Cousins is the rare one who can do that.

Another Celtics weakness - Isaiah's defense - is a little less damaging with Cousins behind him.

At the level of what position he plays and what skills he brings, Cousins really is the perfect addition.

Yes, he has issues, and yes, those issues are the only reason he is even available. There's risk, for sure. But the Celtics with him are legitimate title contenders.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The biggest Celtics weaknesses are rebounding and rim protection, Cousins would address both.

Most big men capable of addressing both of those are not space the floor guys, but Cousins is the rare one who can do that.

Another Celtics weakness - Isaiah's defense - is a little less damaging with Cousins behind him.

At the level of what position he plays and what skills he brings, Cousins really is the perfect addition.

Yes, he has issues, and yes, those issues are the only reason he is even available. There's risk, for sure. But the Celtics with him are legitimate title contenders.
This. I think people aren't grasping how much he fits with what the Celtics do as a team and how they are constructed, especially given that they are featuring IT4 whose defensive limitations are well documented in this forum.

This Ainge quote was highlighted from the interview RedOctober posted upthread:

“We know what our weaknesses are; we’d like rim protection and rebounding. At the same time we do like skilled bigs to play around our guards,” added Ainge.


Cousins is one of the most skilled bigs in the game and is having a monster year at the relatively young age of 26. He is not a short-term bandaid but a guy who might be dominant at his position for another five to seven years. Baggage aside, the guy checks every box for this team and puts them as direct threat to the Cavs while creating some difficult match-ups for Golden State.
 

mcpickl

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Of the guys we're hoping are available, I think Cousins is the worst fit. Certainly not the perfect fit being cited here.

I don't see how he and Horford fit together. In this NBA, they're both centers. I know Horford sees himself as a PF, but he isn't.

I can't imagine it going well having either one of them chasing stretch 4s around all game, and even worse when the opponent goes with a small ball 4 lineup.

Also, would block the Celtics ever playing small themselves, since two of Horford, Boogie and Olynyk would pretty much always be on the floor.

Don't see it affecting IT defensive issues either. His biggest issue isn't guys blowing by him into the paint, it's guys shooting over him.

Fit-wise for the Celtics of the guys we're wishcasting for, I think it's Butler>George>Boogie.
 

heavyde050

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Of the guys we're hoping are available, I think Cousins is the worst fit. Certainly not the perfect fit being cited here.

I don't see how he and Horford fit together. In this NBA, they're both centers. I know Horford sees himself as a PF, but he isn't.

I can't imagine it going well having either one of them chasing stretch 4s around all game, and even worse when the opponent goes with a small ball 4 lineup.

Also, would block the Celtics ever playing small themselves, since two of Horford, Boogie and Olynyk would pretty much always be on the floor.

Don't see it affecting IT defensive issues either. His biggest issue isn't guys blowing by him into the paint, it's guys shooting over him.

Fit-wise for the Celtics of the guys we're wishcasting for, I think it's Butler>George>Boogie.
That is an interesting view that I hadn't thought of.
I would actually rank the fit the exact opposite of what you had, but you bring up some good points.
I still don't get all the Butler love. This to me seems like the definition of buying high on an asset.
If he was as good as everyone says, why is he available?
PG may be available because he says he just wants to win. Boogie is available for many reasons concerning behavior.
I think the Celts would regret dealing the Nets picks for Butler. He just doesn't move the needle enough.
I mean Chicago would definitely win the trade that has been mentioned in some posts (either Brown and a Nets pick or both Nets picks).
Edit - I should probably stay off of Bulls sites as they are asking for everything.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Every basketball reason to be considered Boogie fits so well. And I can get aboard. But I really wouldn't look forward to Boogie pouting every time Isaiah doesn't pass the ball into him and driving himself.

Isaiah currently isn't really much of a lob passing point guard. He is pretty much a two now with Smart evolving.

Is that more that we don't have many lob catching dunkers like Deandre or the like? Or does the amount of work it takes Isaiah to penetrate and make the amazing circus shots he makes hurt the option of penetrating and lobbing dimes to be flushed by a big man? Honest question.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Isaiah is very adept at hitting the open guy - that's the one part of his game that is underrated. Between him and Smart getting the ball to Boogie won't be a problem.
 

CreedBratton

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That is an interesting view that I hadn't thought of.
I would actually rank the fit the exact opposite of what you had, but you bring up some good points.
I still don't get all the Butler love. This to me seems like the definition of buying high on an asset.
If he was as good as everyone says, why is he available?
PG may be available because he says he just wants to win. Boogie is available for many reasons concerning behavior.
I think the Celts would regret dealing the Nets picks for Butler. He just doesn't move the needle enough.
I mean Chicago would definitely win the trade that has been mentioned in some posts (either Brown and a Nets pick or both Nets picks).
Edit - I should probably stay off of Bulls sites as they are asking for everything.
Agreed on Butler. He's really good but I wouldn't give up the nets pick this year for him. All in for Paul George tho
 

CreedBratton

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On mobile but Woj just tweeted:

Sources: Sacramento has told at least one team it's been eliminated from consideration on a Cousins deal because Kings have better offer.