Also, with reports that Melo is taking his talents to MSG, it suggests that The Return is really happening.
You really think they would need to include picks or that any package that includes Wiggins wouldn't be enough? I can't imagine at the beginning of this offseason Minnesota could have hoped for any player with the potential of Wiggins coming back in a return for Love. That deal is a slam dunk for Minnesota and I there is no way that Cleveland would agree to add anything else (other than Bennet - who must be a part of it for salary cap reasons). There have been reports that Cleveland isn't high on that trade, but if LeBron demands it (and he probably should) it will definitely happen (unless Cleveland is stupid enough to value maintaining Wiggins over acquiring LeBron and Love).DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:There are lots of rumors (along with the LeBron rumors) that there is already a deal in place. The question is whether a package of Wiggins plus Bennett plus picks is enough for Love. I dont think the Cavs can take Martin on either.
Why?DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:Also, with reports that Melo is taking his talents to MSG, it suggests that The Return is really happening.
You and Bowiac make a good point. Wiggins and Bennett should be enough for Minnesota. That said we get into the debate about what Saunders plan is for the TWolves. If he has any hope of being relevant soon, maybe it doesn't work. It sounds silly because Wiggins is exactly the type of return that Minnesota should seek for Love. But maybe they dont want to wait another few years to see if a player develops.kazuneko said:You really think they would need to include picks or that any package that includes Wiggins wouldn't be enough? I can't imagine at the beginning of this offseason Minnesota could have hoped for any player with the potential of Wiggins coming back in a return for Love. That deal is a slam dunk for Minnesota and I can't imagine that Cleveland would agree to add anything else (other than Bennet - who must be a part of it for salary cap reasons). There have been reports that Cleveland isn't high on that trade, but if LeBron demands it (and he probably should) it will definitely happen (unless Cleveland is stupid enough to value maintaining Wiggins over acquiring LeBron and Love).
If this is true, then again, unless Cleveland is just insanely stupid, LeBron is coming back.@ESPNCleveland
.@TheRealTRizzo with a huge rumor: #Cavs have made an offer to the Timberwolves for Kevin Love. Deal includes Andrew Wiggins.
Well it rules out any chance of LeBron and Melo teaming up in Miami or elsewhere.bowiac said:Why?
I believe Bennet, Wiggins and assorted junk (Scotty Hopson, Carrick Felix, Mathew Dellavedova etc.) gets the salaries pretty close..Devizier said:Cleveland's trading prowess depends on a few factors
1) When does Wiggins' contract kick in, and at what price? Looks like it will be close to $6M AAV in any case.
2) Does Cleveland get a fresh TPE for the Jack trade?
Sure, but it doesn't mean LBJ is leaving Miami. Now, paired with some new Bosh rumor...DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:Well it rules out any chance of LeBron and Melo teaming up in Miami or elsewhere.
The reports I heard were that this deal is contingent on LBJ coming.bowiac said:If this is true, then again, unless Cleveland is just insanely stupid, LeBron is coming back.
That makes more sense.DrewDawg said:The reports I heard were that this deal is contingent on LBJ coming.
Yeah, Wiggins for Love is a dumb trade for Cleveland. Wiggins for Love and LeBron might be one of the greatest trades ever.bowiac said:If this is true, then again, unless Cleveland is just insanely stupid, LeBron is coming back.
kazuneko said:I believe Bennet, Wiggins and assorted junk (Scotty Hopson, Carrick Felix, Mathew Dellavedova etc.) gets the salaries pretty close..
Nick Kaufman said:To me Lebron's decision is ultimately driven by two parameters.
1. The Miami Heat cannot get better without either significantly cutting Wade's contract or letting him go and replacing him with players that suit Lebron's talent better, like let's say a rim protector and a spot shooter, or even a different superstar like Carmelo Anthony.
I think it's highly unlikely that Wade will accept a significant paycut and Lebron can't pressure explicitly for this to happen because... it's not the decent thing to do to a friend/former co-conspirator and because it's going to be a PR disaster. I sense that this is the reason that a certain passive aggressiveness is coming off Lebron's camp. It feels as if he wants Riley to do the dirty work for him, but that won't happen.
This leads to Lebron's realization that the better choice for winning is moving elsewhere but:
2. Lebron can't go anywhere else but Cleveland because he's going to be branded a mercenary if he chooses a third destination.
For these two reasons it seems to me that Lebron is going to end up there, even though the situation is going to be far more from ideal.
JCizzle said:Haha I don't like lbj normally, but fuck the heat. This is beautiful. And if he is trolling the shit out of Gilbert, then that's pretty funny too.
jon abbey said:
That would be amazing, especially if he said something like "I really wanted to come back home to Cleveland, but then I realized that that asshole Gilbert still owns the team."
kazuneko said:The more you look at what a post-Love trade Cleveland team would look like the more it seems the only way Lebron would choose Miami is either an inability to get over his hatred of Gilbert or his loyalty to the Heat (as if that's ever been a factor). The Cavs starting 5 would be Irving, Waiters, LeBron, Love and Hawes, with a bench that includes, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Verajao and CJ Miles. That's without even beginning to consider any veteran players who might be interested in joining up for the hope of getting a ring. That's a younger -and at least equally talented- big three and far, far more depth than Miami could ever dream of adding to their roster. That's without even considering things like the three picks the Cavs have in next year's draft (ironically one of which is from Miami) or Haywood's salary cap exception which they can use after next season to fit in another major piece.
Tony C said:
I think this makes a lot of sense in terms of an overview of how this is playing out. I've been surprised that Phoenix hasn't been more of a contender for LBJ's services, but I suppose the "mercenary" tag has something to do with it.
Miles is gone too.Tony C said:Hawes signed with the Clippers, but the rest of your point holds. It's a good situation, but doesn't stink of a team of stars like Miami did.
Devizier said:
There's also the issue of Phoenix itself. Not exactly a destination city for a young NBA star. Cleveland isn't either, but the hometown/legacy stuff has a lot of pull.
Ahh, hadn't noticed that. Looks like they might even end up missing Zeller (especially with Verajao's tendency to land on the DL).Tony C said:
Hawes signed with the Clippers, but the rest of your point holds. It's a good situation, but doesn't stink of a team of stars like Miami did.
jon abbey said:Love and Irving are much worse defenders than Bosh and Wade, although the youth is a big advantage for them, obviously. I'd wait to see the rest of the roster before passing judgment, they will need some quality role players as every title contender does.
I think if they get Love, it's about a push in the short term, although as Kyrie improves and Wade declines, a gap will open. For this year, a lot depends on who goes with Wiggins too. Bennett? Thompson? Varejao? Waiters?jon abbey said:Love and Irving are much worse defenders than Bosh and Wade, although the youth is a big advantage for them, obviously. I'd wait to see the rest of the roster before passing judgment, they will need some quality role players as every title contender does.
Yes, I would easily make that bet. Irving looks like one of the worst defenders in the NBA.Mugthis said:Not sure about Bosh-Love (I'd be interested in an analysis of that), and I get that Wade is historically a better defender, but I'm not sure that's true anymore. By the NBA finals, he gave zero effort on defense and couldn't keep anyone in front of him. Would you really bet on Wade being a better defender in the 2015 NBA Finals than Irving being a better defender in the 2015 NBA finals? I wouldn't.
bowiac said:I think if they get Love, it's about a push in the short term, although as Kyrie improves and Wade declines, a gap will open. For this year, a lot depends on who goes with Wiggins too. Bennett? Thompson? Varejao? Waiters?
Something like Kyrie, Waiters, LeBron, Love, Varejao is a weird team. Waiters is pointless, and I feel Love/Varejao are not great complements (only so many rebounds to go around).
As the counterweight to win shares, I'll throw out RAPM.Mugthis said:'13-'14:
Irving + Love: 21 win shares, 46 combined age
Wade + Bosh: 13.5 win shares, 61 combined
Tim Reynolds @ByTimReynolds 4s
RT @Jason23Allen: What's your honest take about how this ends up?? > Get the sense his whole circle wants him to go home. Guessing he will.
@WojiYahooNBA · 22m
LeBron has informed Pat Riley he is signing with Cleveland. "Short and to the point" meeting, sources tell Yahoo Sports.
I love that the headline says that we've reached Defcon 5. Someone trying to be funny being completely wrong.bowiac said:Allegedly photos of moving trucks outside LeBron's house now.
Kliq said:What is the odds on LeBron being found dead on a Vegas massage table after telling Riley he was leaving?
Exactly. The constant shuffling of talent that the max contract causes is exactly why the NBA isn't going to get rid of it. NBA free agency is the best free agency in American sports now.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Zero. David Stern's right hand (aka Adam Silver) would have Riley's charred corpse buried deep in the Nevada dessert before he would let anything happen to The King. As a side note, the NBA has done what they set out to do - its now a year-round league. This forum hasn't been this active this late in the summer since we all watched that embedded youtube of the welcome KG commercial 1.238mm times each back in the day.
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/09/sheridans-top-25-free-agents-july-9-edition/#LXusmfEJ11l7DF15.99The Decision has been made. LeBron James is returning to the Cleveland Cavaliers, a league source tells SheridanHoops.com.
James met with Miami Heat president Pat Riley today in Las Vegas to deliver the news. A contingent of other Heat officials were informed they were not welcome at the meeting, according to a source who spoke on condition of anonymity.
An official announcement will be made on www.lebronjames.com, as I first reported yesterday.
bowiac said:Fake twitter accounts are in agreement that he's going to Cleveland. For instance, fake Adrian Wojnarowski tweets:
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA 3m
LeBron James left the meeting without committing to a deal with the Heat, league source tells Yahoo Sports.
Tim MacMahon @espn_macmahon 3m
Mavs reached deal with Chandler Parsons anticipating LeBron to Cavs, Bosh to Rockets, per source.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4702560/mavs-go-all-in-on-chandler-parsons
NOT NBA Tonight @NOTNBATonight 7m
REPORT: LeBron James constantly refreshing Twitter to find out where he will sign.
teddykgb said:Won't somebody think of Shabazz Napier? He's going to be like the dog one of the couple keeps after they break up.
Tim Reynolds @ByTimReynolds 3m
If the Cavs had any sense of humor, they should start selling flame-retardant LeBron jerseys, just in case.
Tim Reynolds @ByTimReynolds 2m
ESPN reporting Bosh has decided to leave for Houston if LeBron leaves Miami.