DourDoerr said:Unfortunately, I've thought McCourty would be gone for a while. Now that we're here at this late stage, I think it's pretty clear he's gone whether they sign Revis or not. Given that the Pats will have to sign young core players Jones, Collins and Hightower at some point in the near future, the last thing they want to do is tie their own hands on a big safety contract. I love McCourty, but his transformation from an okay corner to an elite safety argues that you shouldn't sign him to a big contract as there may be more such corners that would do well with a position change. It might be the football market equivalent of converting a starting pitcher into a reliever. Size-wise, Logan Ryan might a good candidate for a conversion.
The Niners lost pro bowl safeties two years in a row and their D is still elite (when healthy of course) and Buffalo barely skipped a beat losing Byrd and the Saints didn't get any kind of bump from bringing him in, so that would argue a D can survive the loss of a good safety if the other defensive components are sound. Revis, and the trio of young defenders are far bigger priorities and we know the Pats like to keep a clear eye on the road far ahead.
I doubt he's that replaceable. McCourty was a first-round pick who made the pro bowl as a rookie. You need to be a great athlete as well as very smart. At corner your tasks are much simpler.DourDoerr said:I love McCourty, but his transformation from an okay corner to an elite safety argues that you shouldn't sign him to a big contract as there may be more such corners that would do well with a position change. It might be the football market equivalent of converting a starting pitcher into a reliever. Size-wise, Logan Ryan might a good candidate for a conversion.
j44thor said:Byrd only played 4 games for NO before landing on IR. Not sure that is definitive proof that S is not important.
1. Jairus Byrd, New Orleans Saints safety: Of all players who changed teams this offseason, Byrd earned the most guaranteed money. A major red flag emerged shortly thereafter when Byrd underwent back surgery in May. He was limited in training camp and exposed as a liability during the Saints' disappointing September. After missing tackles and surrendering big plays, the three-time Pro Bowl selection managed just four games before a torn lateral meniscus ligament ended his season.
That would be fair to say norm. I don't believe the Pats have even started negotiations yet with Revis. They have a number in mind for both players but DMC is a true UFA so I think they have approached him earlier.norm from cheers said:
Am I reading this right? Reiss thinks the Patriots are closer to signing DMC then Revis?
Mike Reiss @MikeReiss 3h3 hours ago
@catchmoss Believe we are further along in process with 32 than 24.
Thanks.. for some reason I thought most of what I read was Revis was priority one and once that was settled, DMC would be addressed after he found out what he could get out on the market.RedOctober3829 said:That would be fair to say norm. I don't believe the Pats have even started negotiations yet with Revis. They have a number in mind for both players but DMC is a true UFA so I think they have approached him earlier.
Mystic Merlin said:I don't think it means the team is "closer to signing" DMC at all.
I think Reiss means that the Pats are closer to knowing whether they can re-sign DMC before Tuesday and, if not, how competitive their offer will likely be.
Yes this is the process. DMC is actually able to talk to other teams to gauge his market and, if he wants to, is able to come back to the Patriots with "Team X offered me this much what can you do for me?". That is why I think his process is further down the road than Revis' is.norm from cheers said:Thanks.. for some reason I thought most of what I read was Revis was priority one and once that was settled, DMC would be addressed after he found out what he could get out on the market.
SeoulSoxFan said:
By all account Byrd sucked during the 4 games. Hell, he made #1 on NFL.com's top 10 FA flops of 2014:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000423361/article/saints-jairus-byrd-leads-list-of-top-10-freeagent-flops
Toe Nash said:I doubt he's that replaceable. McCourty was a first-round pick who made the pro bowl as a rookie. You need to be a great athlete as well as very smart. At corner your tasks are much simpler.
Having an elite FS may or may not be more important than an elite CB but I think the dropoff from McCourty to Harmon or whoever is pretty big, nor is there likely to be another CB who can just switch to safety.
I keep on reflecting upon BB's admiration for Ed Reed, his intelligence and physical play and his importance to defense and wonder if BB sees something of Reed in McCourty and all things considered might stretch for Reed-lite.There is no Rev said:
Belichick has also indicated that McCourty has the highest football IQ on the defense and among the highest of any player he's ever coached. There's more there than just size and speed.
Again, disagree. The Pats have the following CBs besides Revis:alydar said:I think DMC, unfortuantely, is going to have to swallow a lot of pride-dollars if he wants to be back with the Patriots. FS is an easier-to-replace position with cheaper options on this specific Patriots roster. Harmon is one option. Ryan is another.
I'm not suggesting either of those people are as good as DMC, but they are more likely to be servicable at that position than the on-roster options at CB who would all move up one step on the depth chart if Revis is gone.
No doubt Belichick loves McCourty, but if he was willing to go to $8-9 MM I'd think he would have used the franchise tag for $9.5. I'll be surprised if the Pats go much over $7 / year, and it seems like the market is going to skew higher.bankshot1 said:I keep on reflecting upon BB's admiration for Ed Reed, his intelligence and physical play and his importance to defense and wonder if BB sees something of Reed in McCourty and all things considered might stretch for Reed-lite.
Yeah, it seems BB loves McCourty for this and I'd agree that the admiration is Reed-esque. At this stage we can't be surprised at BB's discipline, but it really is remarkable that he's willing to gamble on a player he's known to admire. Because of that, I just think that unless DM was willing to take a stunning discount, BB has moved on given higher priorities at impact positions in the years to come.There is no Rev said:
Belichick has also indicated that McCourty has the highest football IQ on the defense and among the highest of any player he's ever coached. There's more there than just size and speed.
Yeah, I go through the same thought-process and think gee, they're screwed -- every single one of these guys has a major liability that could be exploited by a good game plan. Better QBs find the one bad match-up you have on the field and beat you to death with it.Toe Nash said:
Again, disagree. The Pats have the following CBs besides Revis:
Browner
Arrington
Dennard
Ryan
Butler
Browner and Arrington, we largely know what we have: Browner can be disruptive but may need help against smaller, quicker guys, and Arrington seems to be strong in the slot but limited elsewhere.
Dennard's 2014 season was lost but he played very well at times in his rookie year. You're not going to match up Ryan or Butler one-on-one with top guys but they have promise as well. It's not inconceivable that any of those three step up and claim a starting role. There are also a number of non-Revis FA options and BB has shown pretty good prowess at drafting CBs.
Harmon and Ryan may be OK at safety but they are a huge unknown right now, while the CBs we have on the roster are less unknown.
I think he might be too good a CB to do this and that's a better value. By all reports, Butler was excellent in the pre-season and his Super Bowl was great especially given the incredible pressure of the game and spotlight. His trip of Lockette was especially heady as he was smartly going to take a penalty rather than give up an uncontested catch with a good chance of a lot of YAC. The play on Kearse's great catch at the end also demonstrated that he's potentially well-rounded. Physically, he made an athletic play to tip the ball. Then he had the presence of mind to tackle Kearse before he ran into the end zone. Of course, his game-winning INT also demonstrated an impressive combination of the skills needed to succeed at CB. I'm excited to see if he develops from such an outstanding start.brandonchristensen said:Butler is a ballhawk, convert him to safety.
Intercepts all passes
soxhop411 said:
Tom E. Curran @tomecurran 8s9 seconds ago
After 30 hours of tampering, it seems a very good bet Pats will retain either Revis or McCourty and a pretty good bet they keep both.
Or simply someone that does actually have some knowledge/connections after covering this team 20 years.E5 Yaz said:
This guys just seems like too much of a homer.
5dice said:Or simply someone that does actually have some knowledge/connections after covering this team 20 years.
Jones was actually mostly a RB in college who converted to safety for his senior year (in an odd coincidence, their other first-round pick that year was Robert Edwards, who started as a safety at Georgia before converting to RB). Carroll thought he could convert him to CB, but it didn't work / he wasn't a fit at CB after Carroll got fired, and he ended up moving back to safety.DourDoerr said:Yeah, it seems BB loves McCourty for this and I'd agree that the admiration is Reed-esque. At this stage we can't be surprised at BB's discipline, but it really is remarkable that he's willing to gamble on a player he's known to admire. Because of that, I just think that unless DM was willing to take a stunning discount, BB has moved on given higher priorities at impact positions in the years to come.
I mentioned Ryan and let me add Arrington (whom BB also admires for his intangibles - although I'm not sure of his speed) as possible conversion candidates as the Pats already have some insight on what's required and how to do it, as well as in-house players familiarity with the system. And let me make clear that it would be better to simply acquire a player who's already a safety, but it's also sensible to enlarge the pool of candidates with possible CB's. If I remember correctly, Tebucky Jones was originally projected as a CB and was successfully converted to safety - a move that worked out well for a short while. The strength of the rest of the D then was a large part of Jones' success and I think the defense the Pats have now is similarly strong.
Aside from the physical attributes (and Arrington is fast, maybe as fast as McCourty and probably faster than Ryan), there's some overlap between the slot and safety in terms of being more involved in the running game and understanding what is going on not just with your man but around you.
"He tackles well, he runs well, he's a very athletic player," Belichick said. "So I'd say his toughness and his tackling are similar to Devin [McCourty], same type of player who played corner to safety with similar type skills -- speed, range, toughness. Those assets you need at safety, and Devin has them and Kyle has them," he said.
I do mostly agree with you here.DourDoerr said:I don't think it'd be at all easy to replace DM - and the defense is most likely looking at a dropoff at the position, but free safety is simply not a good place to commit a huge number of dollars too. Unless, of course, we're talking about a generational talent which McCourty - while very good - is not.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25098968/dolphins-spend-for-suh-but-will-there-be-any-money-left-for-tannehill• I expect the Patriots to be able to keep cornerback Darrelle Revis or safety Devin McCourty, but it remains to be seen which one. I'm not ruling out both, but the price tag is getting steep. Will the Jets guarantee a third year for Revis at $14 million or $15 million per year? I'm not sure Woody Johnson wants to fund that kind of salary right now, and if he did, man, Mo Wilkerson should be licking his chops like crazy. Will the Jets be truly paying that kind of money for a team that will likely require two years to truly be ready to compete? Johnson calls the shots in the end, but I'm not sure that's the best way for them to go. But with the cornerback market drying up, we'll see. It'll be the Pats or Jets at this point, and I'm still leaning to the Pats. David Harris at $7.5 million a year already to me means Wilkerson is in that $13 million range. As for McCourty, I continue to hear the Eagles would be willing to go to the $9 million range -- Philly will push for Byron Maxwell and Jason Worilds as well, and I expect them to land all three -- which is something the Pats might not be able to stomach. Would the Pats push $8 million a year for him? That's possible, but the timing of this and Revis going down at the same time complicates things. Sources said Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie was particularly intrigued by McCourty and the Eagles have been looking for an impact safety since the heyday of Brian Dawkins
Wait, seriously? Waiting to see if the Jets can guarantee a third year at 14 million!? That can't be right, can it?RedOctober3829 said:
I think he means a third year of truly guaranteed salary, not a third year on the contract.Ed Hillel said:Wait, seriously? Waiting to see if the Jets can guarantee a third year at 14 million!? That can't be right, can it?
And I love McCourty, but the dude ain't Bryan Dawkins.
No, I understand, but if 42 million guaranteed will get it done, sign me up last week.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:I think he means a third year of truly guaranteed salary, not a third year on the contract.
If there is a signing bonus , then you're looking at 50-60 guaranteed if there are three guaranteed years though.Ed Hillel said:No, I understand, but if 42 million guaranteed will get it done, sign me up last week.
Fake, broCorsi said:Ian Rapoport @Rap_Sheeet 9m9 minutes ago
Devin McCourty will return to the #Patriots on a 6y/50M deal according to multiple sources #NFLFreeAgency