You can’t trade him, they still have a shot at that last wild card spot!Feels like a move where either he's good for half a year and you trade him
You can’t trade him, they still have a shot at that last wild card spot!Feels like a move where either he's good for half a year and you trade him
Breslow signing Giolito (over Montgomery?) is probably what prompted Boras to feed Cotillo that quote about us acting like a small market team.I like this a lot better than Montgomery for 8 years and crazy money TBH (and I like Montgomery).
If Boras is leaking stuff like that to writers, it means no one else is meeting his ask for Montgomery either.Breslow signing Giolito (over Montgomery?) is probably what prompted Boras to feed Cotillo that quote about us acting like a small market team.
Boras likes to wait, but he may end up hurting his clients by waiting too long.Breslow signing Giolito (over Montgomery?) is probably what prompted Boras to feed Cotillo that quote about us acting like a small market team.
I really don't think people are missing the concept of "if this pitcher is good, it's good for the team."I think people are missing a potentially very important part of this signing.
If Giolito is good this season it impacts the entire pitching staff. Big if? Maybe. To be able to have 180+ quality innings to go along with Bello removes strain on the bullpen. N
What’s your deal?I really don't think people are missing the concept of "if this pitcher is good, it's good for the team."
Who else out there is going to move the needle?The offseason ended?
Underwhelming compared to our needs, but it is a start and hopefully an upgrade.I'm not wild about him but he will be helpful and the contract is fine.
Even of they wind up re-signing Paxton, Giolito has to be better than Kluber. So there, now you have something positive to think about.Good start now let's keep building the rotation. "All this negativity that's in this town sucks"
It is a bad dealWhat’s your deal?
People commented on a 1 year and out like it was a bad thing.
Feel free to disregard my post if you like.
So if he’s good - 2024 doesn’t count?It is a bad deal
If he’s good, (which is good) he leaves, so the reward stops
If he’s bad, we get him for another year (so the risk/negative reward keeps going)
Keeping in mind that the Sox need 2 pitchers, please suggest someone else then (and let us know who signing Giolito prevents them from signing).This off-season is depressing. I mean this is the best we can do?
You tell us.Who else out there is going to move the needle?
Yep. As someone mentioned, this is sort of like the Paxton deal in the general concept. He gets a safe place to rebuild.So if he’s good - 2024 doesn’t count?
Sign me up for a fund 2024 season. I’ll take my chances next offseason.
Or he could be good and they trade him.It is a bad deal
If he’s good, (which is good) he leaves, so the reward stops
If he’s bad, we get him for another year (so the risk/negative reward keeps going)
The key difference is that with that Paxton deal, the Sox got to share in the upside while also minimizing the downside risk. If Paxton was great in year one, the team could exercise the club option and have him back. If he was terrible/injured (which happened), they could decline the 2nd year and Paxton would have a modest 2nd year player option of $4 million (which he exercised).Yep. As someone mentioned, this is sort of like the Paxton deal in the general concept. He gets a safe place to rebuild.
Paxton was also coming off injury. At least Giolito is health… hopefully he returns to form.The key difference is that with that Paxton deal, the Sox got to share in the upside while also minimizing the downside risk. If Paxton was great in year one, the team could exercise the club option and have him back. If he was terrible/injured (which happened), they could decline the 2nd year and Paxton would have a modest 2nd year player option of $4 million (which he exercised).
Oh, they're certainly not the same. And Giolito isn't strictly coming back from rehabbing an injury. But they are smiliar in that they give the player a bit of certainty/security, and incentivize them not to rest on their laurels.The key difference is that with that Paxton deal, the Sox got to share in the upside while also minimizing the downside risk. If Paxton was great in year one, the team could exercise the club option and have him back. If he was terrible/injured (which happened), they could decline the 2nd year and Paxton would have a modest 2nd year player option of $4 million (which he exercised).
It’s due to the state of the FA pitching market. I don’t see a pitcher worth signing to a big long-term deal at this point, besides maybe Imanga for 4/5.I don't understand short term deals like this for the Sox. Your window is not right now, it's hopefully within 2-5 years. You're either stuck with a crappy Giolito, or he leaves you/sucks you into an extension so you have him during a competitive window. It seems like the only upside to this deal is if the sox have a surprisingly competitive year this year.
Is he’s good and opts out , the Sox can QO him . I guess that’s a bit of assurance. According to Ian Cundell’s Tweet up threadI don't understand short term deals like this for the Sox. Your window is not right now, it's hopefully within 2-5 years. You're either stuck with a crappy Giolito, or he leaves you/sucks you into an extension so you have him during a competitive window. It seems like the only upside to this deal is if the sox have a surprisingly competitive year this year.
A MLB team plays roughly 1472 innings in a season. They need pitchers on the mound for all of them.I don't understand short term deals like this for the Sox. Your window is not right now, it's hopefully within 2-5 years. You're either stuck with a crappy Giolito, or he leaves you/sucks you into an extension so you have him during a competitive window. It seems like the only upside to this deal is if the sox have a surprisingly competitive year this year.
Window. Nonsense. Rangers won the World Series with a 90 win roster. Diamondbacks won the NL pregnant with an 84 win roster. Red Sox could easily be as good as either team next year.I don't understand short term deals like this for the Sox. Your window is not right now, it's hopefully within 2-5 years. You're either stuck with a crappy Giolito, or he leaves you/sucks you into an extension so you have him during a competitive window. It seems like the only upside to this deal is if the sox have a surprisingly competitive year this year.
Probably the same reasons that any team that isn't one of the top few sign players to short term deals, to try to help them win games.I don't understand short term deals like this for the Sox. Your window is not right now, it's hopefully within 2-5 years. You're either stuck with a crappy Giolito, or he leaves you/sucks you into an extension so you have him during a competitive window. It seems like the only upside to this deal is if the sox have a surprisingly competitive year this year.
Exactly. Banking on the value of that familiarity. $18M for 5+ ERA is nice work though. Inflation hasn’t slowed a jot in MLB.At almost twice the money
Well at least Breslow was in the same city as Lucas G so maybehe knows what’s he’s doing.
Risk reward seems not worth it
Hope it's just one, otherwise Minnesota will have them for a trademark violation.Window. Nonsense. Rangers won the World Series with a 90 win roster. Diamondbacks won the NL pregnant with an 84 win roster. Red Sox could easily be as good as either team next year.
Yeah, how dare fans wish to be satiated with wins on the field. Psyched to be once more winning the value off-season. Woo.The plan is they wanted Yamamoto, didn’t get him, and aren’t going to sell the farm or over commit to B tier pitchers just to satiate fans.
He was literally waiver wire fodder last year. Actually went on waivers and was picked up.Would everyone that is complaining about them actually doing something rather have some waiver wire fodder or some kid from AAA who isn’t ready pitching the 150 innings that this guy is likely to give them?
I really like this idea, and I'm not sure Luzardo would take as much as others here have speculated lately.Go trade for Luzardo now
This is literally true but not really fair, the Angels were out of it and doing anything they could to desperately get under the tax line (which they barely did in the end), that's all it was. If LAA had ten more wins at the time, he would not have been released so not really sure that can be held against him.He was literally waiver wire fodder last year. Actually went on waivers and was picked up.
The year Bert Blyleven gave up 50 he was the #2 SP on a World Series championship team.He probably needs to stay fully healthy to give up that many
that team suckedThe year Bert Blyleven gave up 50 he was the #2 SP on a World Series championship team.
The reports of KC walking away from the Luzardo trade did make me wonder if something was wrong with him. He had a velocity drop of 1.5-2 MPH across all his pitches from August 22nd to Sept 11. Looked like he mostly bounced back in his final 3 starts after that, but it could still be a health issue?I really like this idea, and I'm not sure Luzardo would take as much as others here have speculated lately.
Probably not the right thread for this comment, but I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now... Luzardo was reportedly almost dealt for... Vinnie Pasquantino? And the Royals walked away from that? If the reports were wrong, and there was something significantly different about that deal that we don't know about, then this is all admittedly moot. But Pasquantino isn't worth as much as any of the packages that people have been speculating here. I've seen multiple posters throw out that it would take at least two of the Mayer/Anthony/Teel trio. All three of those guys are consensus top 100 prospects, in the 19-22 age range, at premium positions (if you buy Anthony as a CF and Mayer as a SS). Truly blue chip prospects. For context, though, our closest analog to Pasquantino is definitely Jarren Duran... 26/27 years old, peaked as prospects as fringe top-100 guys (depending on who you believe), shown some promise in the majors in short stints despite some worrying warts, same amount of club control, etc. ZiPS even has them pretty comparable going forward. Pasquantino as an all-bat 1.6 WAR next year, and, with Duran at a 98 OPS+ 1.5 WAR.
He has way more upside than Kluber did. He's not that far removed from being a good pitcher once upon a time. Also could be interesting if Bailey fixes him... there might be a lot of broken guys willing to come to the Sox if they think Bailey's the guy who can help them earn more money getting their shit fixed.Sell me on this not being a more expensive Corey Kluber.
Manny Ramirez was put on waivers (before 2004, I don’t recall exactly when) and nobody wanted to pick up that contract…so I guess he was waiver wire fodder too?This is literally true but not really fair, the Angels were out of it and doing anything they could to desperately get under the tax line (which they barely did in the end), that's all it was. If LAA had ten more wins at the time, he would not have been released so not really sure that can be held against him.
That seems about right. Probably there aren’t any A moves to be had at this point.This one's a B- to me. They don't have anyone in the minors who I'd feel comfortable replacing those innings with despite his poor season. And they have put themselves in a position to have to pay a lot of money for mediocrity.
But if he's good, then maybe they compete for a playoff spot.
And hey, they don't need to defend balls over the fence.
We have #3 starters... we just spent $19 mil a year on another one. This very much appears to be one of the two starters we're targeting. The good thing here is it's a relatively low risk move, but those types of similar moves have resulted in us finishing in last place far more often than I'd like recently.Yeah it's really too bad we've run out of time and money this offseason without doing any of that.
Other than Jason Varitek, I don't remember a situation where Boras' inaction really hurt his client.Boras likes to wait, but he may end up hurting his clients by waiting too long.