This just came out a few minutes ago, so nothing yet...hopefully soon.Where’s Miguel’s deciphering of exactly what this all means, Cap-wise?
This just came out a few minutes ago, so nothing yet...hopefully soon.Where’s Miguel’s deciphering of exactly what this all means, Cap-wise?
This link says they have $13 million in space. What is different there from Miguel saying $6.3 million?I'm still really curious how they make the salary cap work.
Have to wait on details but likely similar to what the Pat's did with Revis. Gives them the ability to spread signing bonus over couple years.Where’s Miguel’s deciphering of exactly what this all means, Cap-wise?
Have to wait on details but likely similar to what the Pat's did with Revis. Gives them the ability to spread signing bonus over couple years.
Not that it's a reason not to do this, but this would mean we don't get a compensatory pick if he's gone at the end of the year, right?
I believe that is accurate. I also saw something about his comp pick would be limited to a 5th round as he has 10 seasons accrued which could play into it as wellNot that it's a reason not to do this, but this would mean we don't get a compensatory pick if he's gone at the end of the year, right?
Miguel usually allows for things that will likely happen but haven’t yet (like game-based bonuses and practice squad and injury signings).This link says they have $13 million in space. What is different there from Miguel saying $6.3 million?
https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report
Sorry I'm late on this, but based on Brown's recent behavior perhaps Autotomy would be a more appropriate name.Also impressive--he named his first three children Antonio, Antanyiah, and Autonomy.
I think Carr knows this, too, and some of that contributed to his weirdly forced affect, (on Hard Knocks, at least). Hell, maybe even Gruden knows it.Maybe, at 30 years old, AB just didn't want to entrust his body and brain to two guys recently plucked from the fucking TV booth?
That's what drove this. Oakland is gonna suck and he's not interested. But he can't say that outloud, so act mentally unstable until released #Occam's
SAS was harshing on AB long before he signed with the Pats. I can’t imagine anyone caring about what his sidekick thinks.The Take Illuminati are furious that AB went to the Pats and calling him every name in the book. I'm guessing if he went to the Cowboys it would be a very different vibe.
On the salary cap question -
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Patriots added an option year for Antonio Brown in 2020 at $20 million which becomes guaranteed if executed, per source. It was done to help for cap proration purposes this season.
View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1171071416378318848?s=20
Wait, verbatim, Rosenhaus had "absolutely no communication with the NE Patriots until well after he had been officially released at after 4 o'clock", meaning Saturday.
Why do you think that isn't believable? No doubt the teams had a sense of what they could offer, Rosenhaus knows roughly their cap situations, and he likely knows Brown's preferences (or can quickly ascertain them). How much uncertainty is there in the situation in your mind?Wait, verbatim, Rosenhaus had "absolutely no communication with the NE Patriots until well after he had been officially released at after 4 o'clock", meaning Saturday.
Then he goes on to say that there were back-and-forth negotiations involving a second team and bidding... and that "I can assure you that it was a competitive negotiation for him as a free agent, and the deal didn't get done until, really, Saturday afternoon, around 5 o'clock".
So he's suggesting that a competitive, back-and-forth, arm's-length FA deal with two bidding teams (after, presumably, thorough calls around the league to assess the full set of bidders) was somehow completed in under an hour? Look I don't doubt that the Patriots adhered to the letter of the law (there's nothing wrong with Rosenhaus assuming the Patriots' interest from March would be renewed, and my sense is it's common around the league for agents to pre-assess interest from teams so they can move fast once enabled to do so). But Rosenhaus sounds like either he's confidently stating details that he isn't fully on top of, or he's full of shit in one respect or another.
It's not just SAS. The entire Takesphere is saying the same thing: AB is putting himself above the game. They may not be wrong but the fact that he went to the Pats is bringing out all the long knives. If he went anywhere else we wouldn't see this level of vitriol.SAS was harshing on AB long before he signed with the Pats. I can’t imagine anyone caring about what his sidekick thinks.
I'm not sure it is as far fetched as you're making it out to be. Teams were obviously watching the situation with Brown and the Raiders. And as soon as it was announced that Brown was released, all they have to do is call Rosenhaus and discuss the high level parameters of what they can offer. Rosenhaus is not under any obligation to call all 30 teams or wait until he hears from them. But the following time frame is not unreasonable:Wait, verbatim, Rosenhaus had "absolutely no communication with the NE Patriots until well after he had been officially released at after 4 o'clock", meaning Saturday.
Then he goes on to say that there were back-and-forth negotiations involving a second team and bidding... and that "I can assure you that it was a competitive negotiation for him as a free agent, and the deal didn't get done until, really, Saturday afternoon, around 5 o'clock".
So he's suggesting that a competitive, back-and-forth, arm's-length FA deal with two bidding teams (after, presumably, thorough calls around the league to assess the full set of bidders) was somehow completed in under an hour? Look I don't doubt that the Patriots adhered to the letter of the law (there's nothing wrong with Rosenhaus assuming the Patriots' interest from March would be renewed, and my sense is it's common around the league for agents to pre-assess interest from teams so they can move fast once enabled to do so). But Rosenhaus sounds like either he's confidently stating details that he isn't fully on top of, or he's full of shit in one respect or another.
Watched Golic and Wingo this morning. Only complimentary of the Pats, and they were not buying conspiracy theories. They harshed on AB for a dick move, and let’s face it — it was a dick move. The fact that he extended with Oakland demolishes any plausible defense.It's not just SAS. The entire Takesphere is saying the same thing: AB is putting himself above the game. They may not be wrong but the fact that he went to the Pats is bringing out all the long knives. If he went anywhere else we wouldn't see this level of vitriol.
View: https://twitter.com/GolicAndWingo/status/1171043987832090624
The other bothersome hot takes are the "so much for the 'Patriot Way'" types. To the extent there is such a thing, this is *exactly* the Patriot Way when it comes to non-criminal malcontents. "We're already pretty good. We think you can play. Do any one of these things and you're gone. Here's the list of people we've sent packing."It's not just SAS. The entire Takesphere is saying the same thing: AB is putting himself above the game. They may not be wrong but the fact that he went to the Pats is bringing out all the long knives. If he went anywhere else we wouldn't see this level of vitriol.
View: https://twitter.com/GolicAndWingo/status/1171043987832090624
Wasn't there a tweet by a Schefter type in one of these threads that said that something to the effect of "Because AB is vested, and a team has announced its intention to release him, other teams are free to be in contact with him" ? I looked through this one quickly and didn't see it.I'm not sure it is as far fetched as you're making it out to be. Teams were obviously watching the situation with Brown and the Raiders. And as soon as it was announced that Brown was released, all they have to do is call Rosenhaus and discuss the high level parameters of what they can offer. Rosenhaus is not under any obligation to call all 30 teams or wait until he hears from them. But the following time frame is not unreasonable:
4:00: Brown is released.
4:02: Team A calls Rosenhaus, and says we can offer in the range of X to Y dollars.
4:07: Pats call and present their offer.
4:15: Team B gets through and presents their parameters.
4:20: Rosenhaus calls Brown, says "Look I already got 3 teams that have called. One of them is the Patriots, and they say they can do Z dollars. Teams A and B are in this range here (whatever that may be). "
4:30: Brown calls back and says: "You know I really want the Patriots. If they can come close to Team A's offer, I'm there. Otherwise, I'm going to have to think about it".
4:40: Rosenhaus calls the Pats: "You can get Brown, but here is what it's going to take, as there is another team in hot pursuit".
4:45: Belichick says "Done. Let's do this"
Technically, Rosenhaus would be correct. Maybe the details are different, but the timeline seems perfectly feasible, given that everyone was motivated to get a deal done ASAP.
I think you’re the first person I know that has ever watched Golic and Wingo.Watched Golic and Wingo this morning. Only complimentary of the Pats, and they were not buying conspiracy theories. They harshed on AB for a dick move, and let’s face it — it was a dick move. The fact that he extended with Oakland demolishes any plausible defense.
That’s why people who dearly want to have his back are retreating to — well, I don’t understand the outrage cuz he did not rape anyone.
Desperate for highlights. ESPN and NFLN were showing the wrong games.I think you’re the first person I know that has ever watched Golic and Wingo.
I think it's even simpler. AB told his agent he wanted to go to New England if the money was right. Rosenhaus call them at 4:01. Because they were aware what was going on just like everyone else, the Pats were expecting a call and had a response ready. Rosenhaus accepted.I'm not sure it is as far fetched as you're making it out to be. Teams were obviously watching the situation with Brown and the Raiders. And as soon as it was announced that Brown was released, all they have to do is call Rosenhaus and discuss the high level parameters of what they can offer. Rosenhaus is not under any obligation to call all 30 teams or wait until he hears from them. But the following time frame is not unreasonable:
4:00: Brown is released.
4:02: Team A calls Rosenhaus, and says we can offer in the range of X to Y dollars.
4:07: Pats call and present their offer.
4:15: Team B gets through and presents their parameters.
4:20: Rosenhaus calls Brown, says "Look I already got 3 teams that have called. One of them is the Patriots, and they say they can do Z dollars. Teams A and B are in this range here (whatever that may be). We want to get this done today so you're meeting and practicing with your new team on Monday, as tomorrow is Game Day"
4:30: Brown calls back and says: "You know I really want the Patriots. If they can come close to Team A's offer, I'm there. Otherwise, I'm going to have to think about it".
4:40: Rosenhaus calls the Pats: "You can get Brown, but here is what it's going to take, as there is another team in hot pursuit".
4:45: Belichick says "Done. Let's do this"
Technically, Rosenhaus would be correct. Maybe the details are different, but the timeline seems perfectly feasible, given that everyone was motivated to get a deal done ASAP.
I don't think that many people are defending Brown. Nearly everyone seems to agree that what he didn't wasn't cool. Lots of NE fans are of course excited that the Pats brought in a generational talent at WR, and are rightfully defending Belichick for doing so. As with any move, there is some disagreement on that front, which is understandable and justifiable.Watched Golic and Wingo this morning. Only complimentary of the Pats, and they were not buying conspiracy theories. They harshed on AB for a dick move, and let’s face it — it was a dick move. The fact that he extended with Oakland demolishes any plausible defense.
That’s why people who dearly want to have his back are retreating to — well, I don’t understand the outrage cuz he did not rape anyone.
As others have pointed out, it doesn't actually seem that outlandish. Rosenhaus is certainly full of shit but the bolded is funny given the confidence of your assertion.Wait, verbatim, Rosenhaus had "absolutely no communication with the NE Patriots until well after he had been officially released at after 4 o'clock", meaning Saturday.
Then he goes on to say that there were back-and-forth negotiations involving a second team and bidding... and that "I can assure you that it was a competitive negotiation for him as a free agent, and the deal didn't get done until, really, Saturday afternoon, around 5 o'clock".
So he's suggesting that a competitive, back-and-forth, arm's-length FA deal with two bidding teams (after, presumably, thorough calls around the league to assess the full set of bidders) was somehow completed in under an hour? Look I don't doubt that the Patriots adhered to the letter of the law (there's nothing wrong with Rosenhaus assuming the Patriots' interest from March would be renewed, and my sense is it's common around the league for agents to pre-assess interest from teams so they can move fast once enabled to do so). But Rosenhaus sounds like either he's confidently stating details that he isn't fully on top of, or he's full of shit in one respect or another.
I think @InstaFace was objecting to Rosenhaus' implication that Brown had multiple offers. It's still possible that Brown did. It's also possible that the above scenario happened but Rosenhaus would prefer to lie about it, as it's really noone's business how he does business with specific clients.I think it's even simpler. AB told his agent he wanted to go to New England if the money was right. Rosenhaus call them at 4:01. Because they were aware what was going on just like everyone else, the Pats were expecting a call and had a response ready. Rosenhaus accepted.
Interesting take on the teammate angle from a fringe player (and Pat SB ring-owner I never heard of).I don't think that many people are defending Brown. Nearly everyone seems to agree that what he didn't wasn't cool. Lots of NE fans are of course excited that the Pats brought in a generational talent at WR, and are rightfully defending Belichick for doing so. As with any move, there is some disagreement on that front, which is understandable and justifiable.
There are varying judgments as to how bad Brown's actions were. It's reasonable to conclude that his actions made him a horrible teammate, but there are lots of things that happen in the NFL that are far worse, many of which never get reported.
One time at a pizza parlor in Boston a couple of years ago, I overheard the employees talk about how Gronk should be cut because he always likes like a total clown. Later, they were saying how domestic issues really shouldn't be reported as they're noone's business. And lots of people think OJ and Ray Lewis and Rae Carruth were either innocent or should be excused for killing someone. Needless to say, people defending Brown would be far from the most outrageous thing I've heard on the street.
This is feasible. You can get a truck load of work done in an hour if you're actually working and hitting the phones. I can often and easily get a full day's business done with 5-6 separate 4-7 minute phone calls. If you're scrolling Twitter and instagram, you get nothing done.I'm not sure it is as far fetched as you're making it out to be. Teams were obviously watching the situation with Brown and the Raiders. And as soon as it was announced that Brown was released, all they have to do is call Rosenhaus and discuss the high level parameters of what they can offer. Rosenhaus is not under any obligation to call all 30 teams or wait until he hears from them. But the following time frame is not unreasonable:
4:00: Brown is released.
4:02: Team A calls Rosenhaus, and says we can offer in the range of X to Y dollars.
4:07: Pats call and present their offer.
4:15: Team B gets through and presents their parameters.
4:20: Rosenhaus calls Brown, says "Look I already got 3 teams that have called. One of them is the Patriots, and they say they can do Z dollars. Teams A and B are in this range here (whatever that may be). We want to get this done today so you're meeting and practicing with your new team on Monday, as tomorrow is Game Day"
4:30: Brown calls back and says: "You know I really want the Patriots. If they can come close to Team A's offer, I'm there. Otherwise, I'm going to have to think about it".
4:40: Rosenhaus calls the Pats: "You can get Brown, but here is what it's going to take, as there is another team in hot pursuit".
4:45: Belichick says "Done. Let's do this"
Technically, Rosenhaus would be correct. Maybe the details are different, but the timeline seems perfectly feasible, given that everyone was motivated to get a deal done ASAP.
How has he already assessed which teams are involved? 31 calls not required? How could it possibly take only 18 minutes for 3 separate GMs to fully present the details, along with the qualitative stuff of how interested they are in Brown, how they'll use them in the offense, and have Rosenhaus pick over the details with them? How could he have conducted some bidding to get teams A/B's best offer, and then gone to Belichick and substantiated them? Not one team needed to "go back and look at the numbers and see what they could do"? No need to go back to Brown and say "here's Belichick's best offer, I really believe we're not getting a dime more out of him than this"? No need for Brown to have a call to understand the qualitative / relationship / usage plan stuff at all? And then, upon agreement of the headline terms, Rosenhaus needed no more than 15 minutes to go over the in-depth terms and make sure there were no surprises contrary to his interests, no gotchas or secondary priorities that he needed to insist about?I'm not sure it is as far fetched as you're making it out to be. Teams were obviously watching the situation with Brown and the Raiders. And as soon as it was announced that Brown was released, all they have to do is call Rosenhaus and discuss the high level parameters of what they can offer. Rosenhaus is not under any obligation to call all 30 teams or wait until he hears from them. But the following time frame is not unreasonable:
4:00: Brown is released.
4:02: Team A calls Rosenhaus, and says we can offer in the range of X to Y dollars.
4:07: Pats call and present their offer.
4:15: Team B gets through and presents their parameters.
4:20: Rosenhaus calls Brown, says "Look I already got 3 teams that have called. One of them is the Patriots, and they say they can do Z dollars. Teams A and B are in this range here (whatever that may be). We want to get this done today so you're meeting and practicing with your new team on Monday, as tomorrow is Game Day"
4:30: Brown calls back and says: "You know I really want the Patriots. If they can come close to Team A's offer, I'm there. Otherwise, I'm going to have to think about it".
4:40: Rosenhaus calls the Pats: "You can get Brown, but here is what it's going to take, as there is another team in hot pursuit".
4:45: Belichick says "Done. Let's do this"
Technically, Rosenhaus would be correct. Maybe the details are different, but the timeline seems perfectly feasible, given that everyone was motivated to get a deal done ASAP.
And the whole thing where if a club announces it will be releasing a vested player, there is a legal tampering period.One of the annoying things is going to be the whole "it happened so quickly" thing will be trumpeted everywhere even though there is a glaring example of the same exact thing happening right there for everyone to compare to.
As has been noted here, Shady McCoy wasn't on the market that long, and he signed awfully quickly with the Chiefs. There were even multiple offers.
If nothing else is clear coming out of this, Rosenhaus is a spectacularly good agent. He knows how this League works. He’s undoubtedly aware how those fuckers down at 4 Park Ave operate. I’d count on him staying on the right side of the tampering line, if only to avoid any concern that he’s a dangerous guy to deal with. And, of course, Belichick is no rube.I think @InstaFace was objecting to Rosenhaus' implication that Brown had multiple offers. It's still possible that Brown did. It's also possible that the above scenario happened but Rosenhaus would prefer to lie about it, as it's really noone's business how he does business with specific clients.
Rosenhaus may have misspoken about not communicating with the Patriots until after 4:00, but a new rule approved by the owners this year allows communication before his release, if the player is not subject to waivers and the club has announced the release.Wait, verbatim, Rosenhaus had "absolutely no communication with the NE Patriots until well after he had been officially released at after 4 o'clock", meaning Saturday.
Then he goes on to say that there were back-and-forth negotiations involving a second team and bidding... and that "I can assure you that it was a competitive negotiation for him as a free agent, and the deal didn't get done until, really, Saturday afternoon, around 5 o'clock".
So he's suggesting that a competitive, back-and-forth, arm's-length FA deal with two bidding teams (after, presumably, thorough calls around the league to assess the full set of bidders) was somehow completed in under an hour? Look I don't doubt that the Patriots adhered to the letter of the law (there's nothing wrong with Rosenhaus assuming the Patriots' interest from March would be renewed, and my sense is it's common around the league for agents to pre-assess interest from teams so they can move fast once enabled to do so). But Rosenhaus sounds like either he's confidently stating details that he isn't fully on top of, or he's full of shit in one respect or another.
OK, this makes a lot more sense if the phone calls started flying at 11:30am and a deal is struck at 5:00pm. That much I buy.Wasn't there a tweet by a Schefter type in one of these threads that said that something to the effect of "Because AB is vested, and a team has announced its intention to release him, other teams are free to be in contact with him" ? I looked through this one quickly and didn't see it.
AHA! Found it:
Saturday at 11:50 AM
@Tom PelisseroVerified account @TomPelissero 31m31 minutes ago
NFL owners approved a rule change in March that allows teams to contact a vested veteran immediately if a club publicly announces his release. So, Drew's phone can legally ring right now.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/the-antonio-brown-hypothetical-post-release.28211/post-3533458
I think you're missing OGG's important point that teams could contact Rosenhaus as soon as the Raiders announced Brown's release.How has he already assessed which teams are involved? 31 calls not required? How could it possibly take only 18 minutes for 3 separate GMs to fully present the details, along with the qualitative stuff of how interested they are in Brown, how they'll use them in the offense, and have Rosenhaus pick over the details with them? How could he have conducted some bidding to get teams A/B's best offer, and then gone to Belichick and substantiated them? Not one team needed to "go back and look at the numbers and see what they could do"? No need to go back to Brown and say "here's Belichick's best offer, I really believe we're not getting a dime more out of him than this"? No need for Brown to have a call to understand the qualitative / relationship / usage plan stuff at all? And then, upon agreement of the headline terms, Rosenhaus needed no more than 15 minutes to go over the in-depth terms and make sure there were no surprises contrary to his interests, no gotchas or secondary priorities that he needed to insist about?
About the only way I can envision that this actually went without him totally fudging the timeframe prior to 5pm is that Belichick called first, shared his best offer, emphasized that it wasn't (couldn't) going to get any better than that, and that Brown got stars in his eyes and was unimpressed by any other callers (regardless of what they offered), to the point where they had a verbal on terms without there being any bidding war to speak of. And that it was a free agency only to the extent that Rodney Harrison's was - as soon as he heard Belichick open his mouth, there was no swaying him and the words didn't matter. I could believe that, it's clearly happened many times before. But if it truly was a competitive bidding process, there's no way it started from square one at 4:01pm ET Saturday.