Liverpool 2014-15: Now Is Time On Merseyside When We Dance
- Thread starter DLew On Roids
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I applaud Liverpool's on-going dedication to ensuring Sterling is standing a half-step ahead but directly next to Gerrard whenever possible in front of the media. The postgame interview showed why Gerrard is rightfully lauded for his leadership. "If we got no points today, we'd have deserved it. We have to be better."
I'll keep harping on this until he's gone. Glen Johnson is a disaster. He has no feel for marking on the far side. Late runners consistently end up with a free pass as he'd left marking space. He was praised for allowing a free kick to go in the first half, but on the free kick leading to the second QPR goal he backed off his man and allowed a free header. He's just awful defensively with no instinct and now awareness.
He had bright moments today, notably the block on the line and the cross leading to the first own-goal, but he's too much of a liability.
He had bright moments today, notably the block on the line and the cross leading to the first own-goal, but he's too much of a liability.
One of my favorite memories after Liverpool pulled off the comeback to win the CL Final in Istanbul was the excited sideline reporter grabbing Gerrard immediately after the game and asking him if he really believed they could still win when down 3-0 at the half. He looked at the guy and flatly said "No".soxfan121 said:
I can only assume that Rodgers wanted Moreno and Manquillo fresh for the track meet they'll have against Real.
Balotelli is a mess out there. He's playing a different game from everyone else, paying little attention and understanding almost nothing about what Sterling, Lallana, and Coutinho were trying to do. Whoever said they may as well play Borini up top for now was right on. I'd even say that Lambert needs to be the Plan B until Balotelli can mesh with the side (which may be never).
Balotelli is a mess out there. He's playing a different game from everyone else, paying little attention and understanding almost nothing about what Sterling, Lallana, and Coutinho were trying to do. Whoever said they may as well play Borini up top for now was right on. I'd even say that Lambert needs to be the Plan B until Balotelli can mesh with the side (which may be never).
It's feeling more and more like "never". His shooting touch seems completely FUBAR. Based off today's match, I'm worried that it's gonna be a bloodbath on Wednesday.
Thought QPR were content to just hoof long balls at your back line confident that they would either win it outright or win the 2nd ball. Seemed to spend a lot of the match bypassing the midfield to some success. In that regard, while maybe exposing a weakness, I don't know how many teams will show up and play that way in the PL anymore.
That seemed to me to be part of a broader strategy to use the midfield to force Liverpool's passing attack to the outside and overwhelm them with numbers, assuming that Gerrard, Henderson, and Can wouldn't pass directly up the middle to Balotelli. Liverpool also made it easier by having Johnson and Enrique hanging out in the same spaces as the wide midfielders. It was a tactical mess. The wide players weren't coming in and the attacking middle was a black hole. If Liverpool had been able to get the ball deep into the channels and poured forward, they could easily have scored 5 or 6--that's where the OGs came from--but they got shut down in midfield over and over.
I still think they can put out an XI this week to compete with Real, but I have next to zero confidence that they'll have a plan to succeed.
I still think they can put out an XI this week to compete with Real, but I have next to zero confidence that they'll have a plan to succeed.
DLew On Roids said:
So ..
Mignolet
Moreno, Skirtle,Lovren,Manquillo
Gerrard,Henderson,Coutinho,Sterling
Balotelli,Borini
With a diamond anchored by Gerrard and Sterling at the tip?
Or
Mignolet
Moreno, Skirtle,Lovren,Manquillo
Gerrard,Henderson,Coutinho,Sterling,Lallana
Balotelli
Basically a 4-2-3-1 lineup?
Or let Borini play up front instead of Ballotelli ?
For Madrid: Casillas, Marcelo, Varane, Pepe, Arbeloa, Kroos, Modric, Isco, James, Ronaldo, Benzema.
I'll just get this in while I can...
Liverpool are 3-0 in their history against Real Madrid, by a total score of 6-0.
Liverpool are 3-0 in their history against Real Madrid, by a total score of 6-0.
As predicted, this Balotelli era should have never happened. Lallana replacing him. Apparently, he swapped shirts with Pepe walking to the tunnel after the first half.
SoxFanInPdx said:
Souness was not happy about that.
I thought Balotellie might have got his act together when Liverpool signed him. But when he's not scoring goals, he does fuck all, and he's not scoring goals.
Even with how it's worked out, I still think the Balotelli signing was a worthwhile risk. The problem is that Sturridge got hurt immediately and they had to throw him in every game playing alone up top.
SoxFanInCali said:
I've been thinking about Liverpool's signings a lot of late. In the context of...what do you do when you sell a big player a la Bale Suarez, or when you have money to spend, like Southampton. It's like Liverpool took a few eachway punts...which is a fair enough strategy, but i wonder if they should have bought quality instead. So hard to second guess. But Liverpool seem to have Bale Syndrome. It's so frustrating.
Supposedly, Warrior is being rebranded as part of the New Balance brand next year and these are the Liverpool kits.
If true these are very nice and I will miss the annual event of making fun of your third kit.
If true these are very nice and I will miss the annual event of making fun of your third kit.
Yeah, I knew they were moving all the football gear to the New Balance brand starting next year. This is the first I've seen of possible kit designs.
SoxFanInPdx said:
Brendan Rodgers:
"In the second half, you could see every single player pressing and wanting to get something from the game. At Liverpool, you need to press and work."
Don't really have to work hard to see the implication there.
Well, they had to not only try to replace Suarez's production, but also greatly expand the squad depth to be able to compete in more competitions. It's almost impossible to do both at the same time.fletcherpost said:
DLew On Roids said:
Yep - I think this is the end of the Balotelli era. Although, supposedly the half time substitution was mainly because of the shirt swap.
I thought the movement around and into the RM box was greatly improved - I really did expect them to get a goal or two, But the defensive lapses are another matter - as Gary Neville kept (repeatedly and with a fair amount of glee) pointing out - these are ongoing and should be something that could easily be fixed.
Is this all on Mignolet? He seems to be very indecisive about organizing the defense and when to come for a ball or not. How much does that destabilize a defense?
The "throwing Balotelli under the bus" phase of the season is well and truly underway, huh?
He hasn't played well but you need to give players time to adapt. I think Balo could still come good, as long as the loyalist media (I'm looking at you Jamie Carragher) and Rodgers don't decide to use him as a convenient scapegoat just to deflect attention from the bigger sources of the team's struggles (ie, defense, Rodger's transfer record).
He hasn't played well but you need to give players time to adapt. I think Balo could still come good, as long as the loyalist media (I'm looking at you Jamie Carragher) and Rodgers don't decide to use him as a convenient scapegoat just to deflect attention from the bigger sources of the team's struggles (ie, defense, Rodger's transfer record).
I just don't see it. Balotelli is doing the same things he did to lose favor at City, at Milan, and with the Italian national team. He's got immense talent, but if he's not even going to work hard for 90 minutes, there's no point.
He just doesn't belong in a top-level squad right now, and a club with Liverpool's expectations can't afford to let him work out whatever's in his head by essentially playing a 4-3-2 with a hole in the middle. Bring in a psychologist, bring in his mom, whatever, and help him get his head on straight, but he can't waste space in the XI.
I don't think the issues at the back are all on Mignolet. Liverpool haven't been able to get good teamwork between a pair of central defenders in two years. Skrtel gets a lot of criticism, but it's not just him--Sakho, Agger, Toure, and Lovren have all been parts of pairs that looked clueless, especially in open play, which minimizes Mignolet's responsibility. I put that down to the coaching staff. It also doesn't help that Liverpool have often deployed fullbacks in name only, requiring the central defenders to cover more ground and opening up channels. I think Moreno and Manquillo are major improvements there, if for no other reason than they can actually run, but the system exposes central defenders who also don't seem well-coached.
He just doesn't belong in a top-level squad right now, and a club with Liverpool's expectations can't afford to let him work out whatever's in his head by essentially playing a 4-3-2 with a hole in the middle. Bring in a psychologist, bring in his mom, whatever, and help him get his head on straight, but he can't waste space in the XI.
I don't think the issues at the back are all on Mignolet. Liverpool haven't been able to get good teamwork between a pair of central defenders in two years. Skrtel gets a lot of criticism, but it's not just him--Sakho, Agger, Toure, and Lovren have all been parts of pairs that looked clueless, especially in open play, which minimizes Mignolet's responsibility. I put that down to the coaching staff. It also doesn't help that Liverpool have often deployed fullbacks in name only, requiring the central defenders to cover more ground and opening up channels. I think Moreno and Manquillo are major improvements there, if for no other reason than they can actually run, but the system exposes central defenders who also don't seem well-coached.
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
I'm convinced that 90% of the issue falls on him. I think the communication between him and the backline is basically non-existent. My impression when watching them every week is that they don't trust him and know where he's going to be. Some matches he'll come out and punch a ball away, others he'll stay glued to the goal line. He's a great shot stopper, but he's not a leader. For the system that they employ, they need a sweeper keeper. Hopefully, they're looking elsewhere come January.
DLew On Roids said:
Just a few weeks ago Rodgers was saying that Balotelli was working hard every match but he just needed to start scoring so either Rodgers was wrong then or the narrative has conveniently changed all of a sudden.
I also question the idea that every single attacking player needs to run hard on defense for 90 minutes for a top-level squad. Nobody team presses for 90 minutes so that's not a tactical necessity, even for teams known for pressing. Even more pertinently, lots of top-level attacking players (RvP, Ronaldo, Messi, Robben to name a few that come to mind) often spend much of the match lollygagging around when out of possession and preserving their legs for when it really matters. If Balotelli was scoring at a decent clip, nobody would care.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I agree and disagree. I think it's true that top level talents don't have to press and run all the time, but the problem with Balotelli is that the bar really isn't "all the time" -- he really struggles to impact a match if he's not "on". Ronaldo, Messi, Robben, etc all will shirk their defensive responsibilities from time to time, but they get on the ball and they make things happen. Balotelli doesn't belong in a sentence with those names, but he also doesn't impact the match the way those players do. This is why people always want him to be more active and hustle more, because he needs to find a way to make a mark on the match. As it is today, the player has simply stalled at being a goal poacher while seeming to have the talent to be much much more.
I've watched a ton of him over the years, he's got some tricks from time to time, but I honestly wonder if he's got the talent we all thought/think he has. I think the expectations of him are unfair -- he's really got a magnificent ability to strike a ball and an occasional trick, but he's not much of an instinctual footballer IMO and he doesn't tend to weave through defenses all that often. He's a pretty lethal goal scorer if given time and space, but at this point I don't know if he's got the ability to create the time and space that the real greats can.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Not to be a dick, but I get the impression you aren't watching Liverpool's matches.
You're right that those players don't press, and I commend you for arguing against a point no one was making ("I also question the idea that every single attacking player needs to run hard on defense for 90 minutes for a top-level squad."). Whether or not Balotelli should be asked to press isn't the question for people who are watching Liverpool every match. It's "Where the fuck was Balotelli?" on many plays. Or "What the fuck was he thinking?" He's not just not working on pressing. He's not working to involve his teammates. He's not working to find space when they are creating something at the edge. He waits for the ball to approach space he can move into and shoot for goal. That's all he's doing.
If Rodgers said he was working hard before, he was using coach pressconferencespeak. Balotelli was working harder back in September, but he was always the least energetic member of the squad relative to his duties. Now he's a nonentity.
Clearly I was wrong to interpret a comment about how Balotelli is "not even going to work hard for 90 minutes," in the context of a discussion of Rodgers' comments about the "need to press and work" as being about...pressing and work rate.DLew On Roids said:
But if your larger point is really about Balotelli's limited movement in possession, I can't really disagree. After all, everybody knew that was an issue from the start. Even so, from the limited number of Liverpool's matches that I have watched, I tend to agree with Ancellotti: Balotelli isn't playing well, but its not clear that he's really the source of your problems either.
Had he squared the open net or had Sterling's pass not hit Caulker, none of this would be necessary.
I still don't get how soccer fans get so wrapped up in the psychology of strikers and then project onto them so much other shit. Guy was open, in the six-yard box, TWICE - once he flubbed the chance, the other time the defender put it in his own goal first.
To suggest he isn't getting in position to score goals is...British press hyperbole.
I still don't get how soccer fans get so wrapped up in the psychology of strikers and then project onto them so much other shit. Guy was open, in the six-yard box, TWICE - once he flubbed the chance, the other time the defender put it in his own goal first.
To suggest he isn't getting in position to score goals is...British press hyperbole.
Serious question: how many LFC matches have you watched. You are seriously understating the problem. His touch appears to have completely abandoned him. DLew is 100% right in that he looks like a head case out there.dribbling when he should shoot. Heavy, or shanked touches when he does shoot. He's a mess. Nobody wants him to succeed here more than I, but right now he looks like Fernando Torres, circa 2011-12. It's heartbreaking.soxfan121 said:
The essential problem is he's trying to replace someone with a style that couldn't be more opposite. Suarez led from the front. Nobody - and I mean nobody - worked harder at winning the ball back. Balotelli, in contrast, appears to be simply floating out there. One could argue that winning the ball simply isn't in his game, but he really isn't contributin anything
PS.
An Arsenal fan coming in here and talking shit about other fans throwing a player under the bus shatters the irony scale.
An Arsenal fan coming in here and talking shit about other fans throwing a player under the bus shatters the irony scale.
JayMags71 said:
Not as many as you, obviously. But I did watch the most recent league game and confined my comments to chances in that game.
Perhaps I am understating the problem. Or perhaps soccer fans everywhere overstate problems like this because it's tied into the psychology of fandom in the sport, stoked by media shit shovelers who overanalyze every facial expression.
Had that ball missed Caulker's foot, Balotelli taps that in. On the earlier chance, a slightly different angle of his foot results in a goal. And had either of those "inches" happened - no one's complaining about shirt swap, right?
I will grant you all the hubbub about the shirt swapping at halftime is bullshit. I mean, come the fuck on.
I'm with SoxFan. Either of those own-goals was headed to him. If one or both make it through than this conversation isn't happening.
He also brilliantly sprung Gerrard into the QPR box. Gerrard had work to do, but it wasn't the play of a striker whose touch had abandoned him.
The biggest thing working against Balo right now is the vilification in the press. That will quickly become a self-fulfilling prophecy with him. It doesn't matter who the manager is- nobody can keep him from getting in his own head when hearing this stuff.
He also brilliantly sprung Gerrard into the QPR box. Gerrard had work to do, but it wasn't the play of a striker whose touch had abandoned him.
The biggest thing working against Balo right now is the vilification in the press. That will quickly become a self-fulfilling prophecy with him. It doesn't matter who the manager is- nobody can keep him from getting in his own head when hearing this stuff.
JayMags71 said:
You have a Morissette-level understanding of the meaning of that word.
I've written many posts on Arsenal forums attempting to drag the frail body of Mesut Ozil out from under the bus, where the media and many fans would like to toss him. If anything, knowing what that ugly dynamic looks like helps me see it with Balotelli.
Balotelli will be hounded until he has some sort of emotional breakdown, then they'll change the narrative to 'pressures of the modern game'
— Marc Duffy (@MarcSDuffy) October 23, 2014
— Marc Duffy (@MarcSDuffy) October 23, 2014
JayMags71 said:
It's kind of an unwritten rule. It shows disrespect to the fans, (who pay good money to watch players bust a gut for huge money (and hopefully the shirt) it reflects badly on the player, especially if he's not proven himself yet. Managers don't like it. There's a game still to be played, swap shirts after the game. It's one of those little things that's actually quite a big thing. There's a reasons some players kiss the badge like when Frank did it at Chelsea, fans love that shit, cos they knew he gave 100% for the team. Conversely swapping your shirt at half time...it's a fuckin no no. And i'm watching Football Focus and they're talking about it, Rodgers has had to talk about it, we're talking about it...why? Not cos it's nothing. If it was nothing we won't talk about it. Mario ought to know better. The guy needs to get some sweat on the shirt before he swaps it.
If Gerrard did it he'd get away with it, but he'd still get called out on it and we'd expect him to have a reason for doing it. Cos Gerrard knows hoe these things work. It's all about professional discretion and awareness.
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