Knick fans were tired of RJ and Quickley was looking for big money.
I think the main point of the DARKO graph is further confirmation that RJ Barrett stinks.
Yeah, at first glance this trade feels like Toronto was targeting Quickley much more so than Barrett. Feels like a pretty light return overall for Toronto and a solid move for the Knicks as the OGs are harder to find than the Quickleys.
Yes, feels like the classic thing where a team puts out a strong negotiating position wrt a player (Lots Of Picks!) but doesn't have a real plan.
Dan Greenberg was on Celtics Beat the other day and pointed out that in today's NBA landscape, a smart GM who can't or doesn't want to re-sign a player needs to deal that player with at least one guaranteed year left on his contract, otherwise his value plummets. (He was talking about this in context of DWhite - that if the Cs can't re-sign White to an extension, the longer they wait to trade him, the less return they are getting).
Quickley is an RFA and probably not a max player, so whether he gets a huge offer or is forced to play the RFA game is uncertain. His RFA status was probably a big part of the draw for Toronto here. I guess it’s possible they think they can get more out of Barrett than he’s shown so far too.
We'll see as we get close to the deadline. Woj just a few days ago said there were going to be more buyers than sellers at the deadline, and even a few months away from free agency there has to be reasonable interest in an all-star level big wing with title experience.
Yeah Barrett got the Jaylen Brown extension, but never made the all-star leap to go along with it. Worth a gamble by the Raptors, I doubt they've got much better to spend the same money on over the next couple years.
Rumor had it that IQ was looking for 4/$100. Bobby Marks pegged him at 4/$85M but from what I am seeing, it sounds like the market for IQ may be robust given the way he's been playing. https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10100162-knicks-rumors-immanuel-quickley-was-offered-non-guaranteed-contract-no-incentives.amp.html
I think this is the most interesting part of this trade.
Yea that has been my initial reaction.
Just to push back on this a bit, Brunson/Quickley/Hart/Randle has been the best 4 man combo in the league so far this year.
This sounds like a deal put together by the agents and sold to the respective teams.
The Knicks are run by an agent, pretty much everything they do has CAA ties, including this.
Yeah, I think IQ will be good for TOR. Not a game changing move but they need a guard like IQ who can shoot and create.
While I agree, this also shows why these sub-max rookie extensions for younger guys are so valuable for teams to lock in.
yeah, I view this deal as a table-setter for the Knicks cashing in picks for a second impact guy (using fournier’s salary as a big part of the salary ballast)
His salary lines up perfectly with Dejounte Murray who has been mentioned here. That would be a nice second move for them, if Atlanta is willing.
So the Hawks bail on the Murray experiment and try to recoup some of the draft capital they have to ship out to the Spurs? Atlanta traded for the wrong Spur veteran guard. Derrick White would have been perfect playing with Trae Young.
Interesting. But can Murray play with Brunson any more than Trae? They seem like similar players to me.
Same issue arises because Murray is best with the ball in his hand but there’s your Plan B for a Brunson injury, if you’re the Knicks. Murray, to his credit, is playing pretty well with Atlanta. Has even gotten his 3 point % to about 38% this year.
Yeah, this is the unknown part because the cost to get Murray was extensive so they may just try to lock him up as an asset. It would also have to be part of a larger reset, I think.
The Knicks gave away Obi Toppin for two second round picks, and he’s averaging a point every two minutes as a starter in Indy with a gaudy 67% 3FG, shooting (dunking?) a league leading 75% from two and a respectable 37.6% from three
Yeah, they gave him away because his contract is coming up and they didn't want to pay him as he's a very unusual player and a bad fit. You can't rely on him in a halfcourt offense or to play consistent D, he is a great fit for IND because they have so many offensive weapons that he is always open, but even with that, I saw that they moved him to coming off the bench the other day. I loved loved loved watching him in NY, the rare player whose misses are more entertaining than some player's makes, but I think the jury is still very much out as to his role on a winning team.
More objectively, it is pretty clear Toppin a) didn’t fit with Thibs limited view of a big (which is focused on a specific defensive fit) and b) may well
I don't think that contradicts anything I said, just as he was an odd fit in NY, he is a good fit in IND on a team that is the closest thing to a Paul Westhead team that the league has seen in a while.
Yeah, if you wanted to build a player to contradict everything that Thibs wants out of his big you would come pretty close to building Obi Toppin. He's like Nesmith in a way, and like many others, who need that second stop to connect with a system after the first one didn't work out.
If you really like Quickley, then "expensive" doesn't matter. You pay $21-25M for your lead guard, and are positioned to add one more big piece around Barnes after that.
Barrett and Quickley are just 23 and 24 respectively so certainly could fit with Barnes if they perform. TOR is rolling the dice on Quickley becoming Maxey-lite without Brunson ahead of him and Barrett blossoming in his hometown, I think either or both of those is very possible. It certainly seems like they held onto Anunoby for too long, same as they did Van Vleet and are still doing with Siakam.
Since TOR apparently doesn't want to blow it up, I think IQ is as good as they were going to get for OG so maybe not trading him for draft picks worked out well for a change.
This is a good analysis. I need to upwards-adjust my opinion of Quickley a bit. I have him mentally slotted as an "instant-offense but undersized on D" guy, for which I'm guilty partly of typecasting him based on his 6th man role and partly on his frail stature entering the league as a rookie. It's true that he's become a solid 2-way guy, so there's potential to the Maxey comp.
I think they are doing a modified "blow it up"...which could end up blowing up in their faces. Ujiri clearly thinks these 20-24 year olds are more valuable than mid to late 1sts, which is probably true. The issue is that the players Ujiri is getting aren't on rookie scale contracts, which could lead to a very expensive team in the middle of the pack doing nothing.
