As someone noted they would if they traded Holt which seems like an absolute certainty after bringing Nunez back.We have 2 DH’s now. They’d have absolutely no fit for someone like Dickerson.
As someone noted they would if they traded Holt which seems like an absolute certainty after bringing Nunez back.We have 2 DH’s now. They’d have absolutely no fit for someone like Dickerson.
Why? The guy can play multiple positions. Hanley can't.As someone noted they would if they traded Holt which seems like an absolute certainty after bringing Nunez back.
Because that would create a second DH slot in the lineup? Dickerson has never played anything but OF or DH. They have more than enough coverage at any position he can play, which also roster wise overlaps to 1B. The 3 Bs, Hanley, Moreland and JDM can easily cover the OF and 1B, roster them through DH. They aren’t paying that much money for injury insurance and otherwise there’s no place for him.As someone noted they would if they traded Holt which seems like an absolute certainty after bringing Nunez back.
Not in the majors, according to baseball referenceI`d like to see JDM pick up a 1B mitt. I thought he`d played a little at 1B but can`t see it anywhere. If Hanley is ever traded or DFA it would be nice plus good during interleague play.
Correct. His position and skills aren’t a fit for our roster.Because that would create a second DH slot in the lineup? Dickerson has never played anything but OF or DH. They have more than enough coverage at any position he can play, which also roster wise overlaps to 1B. The 3 Bs, Hanley, Moreland and JDM can easily cover the OF and 1B, roster them through DH. They aren’t paying that much money for injury insurance and otherwise there’s no place for him.
Yes, but for a much lower amount of money than was expected.I strongly dislike the three years of options as it squarely shifts the risk to the team and the reward to JD.
Then maybe we should reconsider.But, but....he strenuously objects.
In a way, this scenario seems lovely if everyone's good with it. Maybe under Cora they are.DH: Martinez 450 PA, Ramirez 200 PA
1B: Ramirez 200 PA, Moreland 500 PA
LF: Benintendi 500 PA, Martinez 200 PA
CF: Bradley 600 PA, Benintendi 100 PA
Assuming a four man bench, this leaves one of Moreland/Ramirez as a PH.
Bench:
2 Leon S
3/PH Moreland/Ramirez L/R
2/3/4/5/7/9 Swihart S
4/5/6 Marrero or Lin (Lin also plays CF).
I haven't watched him play there with my own eyes, but Nunez has quite high UZR rates in left. I could also see a post-Hanley scenario where we protect JDM from the monster and Nunez takes those LF at-bats after Pedroia returns, and the guys we need to establish as major leaguers playing more substantial roles. Like this (Holt and Leon are gone):You'd want to put Lin or Swihart in the OF in that situation. Nuñez is pretty terrible in the OF.
I`d like to see JDM pick up a 1B mitt. I thought he`d played a little at 1B but can`t see it anywhere. If Hanley is ever traded or DFA it would be nice plus good during interleague play.
He played a little 1B in rookie ball and low-A in 2009 in his first professional season. That's it.Not in the majors, according to baseball reference
I don’t post in this forum, but I’m freakin’ pumped by this addition. This is the major bat the Red Sox lacked the previous year and needed this season to have a legit change at contending. If JD mashes for 2 years and opts out, who cares? Combined with the Nunez signing, the offensive bump this team has received within the last few days is exciting. I can’t wait for this season to start.Giancarlo Stanton and J.D. Martinez Since 2014:
Stanton - .366 OBP, .573 SLG, 149 wRC+, 2,118 PA
Martinez - .362 OBP, .574 SLG, 148 wRC+, 2,143 PA
Wow, I'd think you could win a lot of bar bets with those numbers. I'm sure casual fans (and probably some not so causal fans) would have no idea they're so close.Giancarlo Stanton and J.D. Martinez Since 2014:
Stanton - .366 OBP, .573 SLG, 149 wRC+, 2,118 PA
Martinez - .362 OBP, .574 SLG, 148 wRC+, 2,143 PA
It's the new Cano v. Pedroia.Giancarlo Stanton and J.D. Martinez Since 2014:
Stanton - .366 OBP, .573 SLG, 149 wRC+, 2,118 PA
Martinez - .362 OBP, .574 SLG, 148 wRC+, 2,143 PA
DD really waited out Boras beautifully. Took advantage of a soft market to grab Nunez. Terrific job. Might even still pluck a left handed reliever yet still.I'll admit, I never would have guessed that Dombrowski had the patience to wait out a scenario like this, after his willingness to pay whatever it took in prospects for Kimbrel and Sale and in cash for Price. Love, love, love this deal, opt outs included. Maximize the window we have through 2019 and see what we get. I knew I'd be excited if they signed JDM, but I find myself surprisingly giddy about this upcoming season. Bring it on.
I don't have anything to directly quote, but I know I've seen posts here and stuff in articles about him being well liked and respected. If this is true I think adding a guy with the skills to back himself up, be older than the core but still young enough to relate to them will be a huge plus on the clubhouseAny indications about what type of locker room presence he is? Is he a outspoken leader or tend to be more introverted??
Yeah, not Dombrowski's usual m.o. Considering how the Sox ownership feels about Boras. You have to wonder how much autonomy he had in this particular situation.I'll admit, I never would have guessed that Dombrowski had the patience to wait out a scenario like this, after his willingness to pay whatever it took in prospects for Kimbrel and Sale and in cash for Price. Love, love, love this deal, opt outs included. Maximize the window we have through 2019 and see what we get. I knew I'd be excited if they signed JDM, but I find myself surprisingly giddy about this upcoming season. Bring it on.
The Detroit stats will do me just fine for those years and that money.I don't think he's going to hit as well as some expect, but it should be good enough to justify the first two years. I think leaving the desert for Fenway is going to hurt him more than we think (for his bat, not referring to chemistry or fan relations or any of that).
There really is no reason to believe that he didn't have full autonomy.Yeah, not Dombrowski's usual m.o. Considering how the Sox ownership feels about Boras. You have to wonder how much autonomy he had in this particular situation.
You said it better than I could hope too. All of a sudden I went from "Oh, Truck Day was lat week?" to "Man, I can't wait for the season to start."I'll admit, I never would have guessed that Dombrowski had the patience to wait out a scenario like this, after his willingness to pay whatever it took in prospects for Kimbrel and Sale and in cash for Price. Love, love, love this deal, opt outs included. Maximize the window we have through 2019 and see what we get. I knew I'd be excited if they signed JDM, but I find myself surprisingly giddy about this upcoming season. Bring it on.
Stanton also hits infield pops more than twice as much as JDM. Would be nice to not lead the league in that category again this year.By way of further comparison, Martinez’s rate stats are nearly identical to Stanton’s through the last four years, meaning Boston adds a like-for-like complement to its biggest rival’s biggest offseason acquisition.
Stanton walks more and is a tad more fond of homers, but Martinez’s overall production mirrors Stanton’s, and last year, even with the former Marlin winning MVP honors and crushing 59 homers, Martinez actually owned the superior batting line.
Whether you wanted him or not, I think the one aspect that has been getting somewhat lost in all this dollar value evaluation is just how good and generally rare a FA hitter acquisition JDM really is.Wow, I'd think you could win a lot of bar bets with those numbers. I'm sure casual fans (and probably some not so causal fans) would have no idea they're so close.
Absolutely. He saved a tiny bit of face in the end with the opt outs, but I think this and a shifting market will certainly serve as a potential blow to his future "I'm definitely going to drop my agent and pick up Boras heading into FA" appeal.This has to be one of Boras' biggest losses, right? The market is obviously the market, but I don't recall such an extreme example of rumored asking price vs what was eventually settled on before.
Yeah, that was my thinking. I know he has innngs there. He’s not a Swiss Army knife like Holt in the field, but in a big symmetrical outfield like Toronto or Anaheim or whatever, you could move Mookie to center in a pinch. Maybe Lin is better. Not enough reps to know for sure, but if Holt is gone, with two first baseman and a new $25m DH/average outfielder, Nunez is probably going to end the year with innings at five positions.OK, Denny's post had me thinking Nunez to the OF.
Let me introduce you to a thread called "Red Sox Interested in Signing Kevin Millar."Thank God it is finally over. Can we finally stop talking about JDM. This has got to be the longest thread I've seen in a long time.
Ooh, ooh ... when you let him in, shut the door behind him.Let me introduce you to a thread called "Red Sox Interested in Signing Kevin Millar."
There is a lot not to like.There isn't a whole lot to dislike about this deal.
Just a bit of wondering out loud on my part. But Dombrowski did a great job. The Sox and Martinez both looks like winners in the deal.There really is no reason to believe that he didn't have full autonomy.
To keep it dry for what though? Theres not a lot left in the farm system to trade with, so it would have to be to take on salary in addition to players. Or do you mean one of the big time FAs next year and roll with what we already have this year ?There is a lot not to like.
The Sox just handed $110 million to a 30-year old who figures to be a DH moving forward and has played more than 125 games in a season exactly once. And if he exceeds expectations, he’ll opt out after 2 years — so we don’t get the upside if JDM’s aging curve ends up looking like Dwight Evans’s, but we own the downside if his production falls off a cliff.
This looks like a deal done by a GM who felt he had to do something. Would’ve much rather seen him keep his powder dry.
I’m saying roll with what they’ve got.To keep it dry for what though? Theres not a lot left in the farm system to trade with, so it would have to be to take on salary in addition to players. Or do you mean one of the big time FAs next year and roll with what we already have this year ?
I know its front-loaded, but there won't necessarily be a lot of suitors for JD in 2 or 3 years either. Even if he does produce, he may be a little gun shy in shopping his services again. And even if he does there will be pick compensation attached.
with this:I’m saying roll with what they’ve got.
Why is a team with Sale, Betts and Bogaerts (and Kimbrel, Pomeranz, Devers, etc.) not worth improving in 2018-19, just so we can be sure to re-sign those guys when they're two years older, with no obvious studs coming along in the farm system to add to them?JDM and Price are likely to be tying up north of $50 million in payroll when it comes time to make decisions on Sale, Betts, and Bogaerts. You might accept that if you had a terrific chance to win a title in the next couple of years, but I don’t think that’s the case — the MFY looked like a solid preseason favorite heading into the offseason, and they have only widened the gap (Stanton >>> JDM, obviously).
I’m afraid we’re going to be watching a terrible baseball team in the 2020s because DD decided to push his chips into the center of the table (or was told to do so by ownership), and I doubt we’re going to have a pennant to show for it.
go read some comparisons again (in this very thread, even) and get back to me on this.(Stanton >>> JDM, obviously).
With the possible exception of Kopech, which prospect did DD trade that would have extended the window? Moncada could obviously turn out well, but he wasn’t exactly promising this year and there wasn’t a place for the rest. Please don’t even mention Travis Shaw.I’m saying roll with what they’ve got.
JDM and Price are likely to be tying up north of $50 million in payroll when it comes time to make decisions on Sale, Betts, and Bogaerts. You might accept that if you had a terrific chance to win a title in the next couple of years, but I don’t think that’s the case — the MFY looked like a solid preseason favorite heading into the offseason, and they have only widened the gap (Stanton >>> JDM, obviously).
I’m afraid we’re going to be watching a terrible baseball team in the 2020s because DD decided to push his chips into the center of the table (or was told to do so by ownership), and I doubt we’re going to have a pennant to show for it.
I would just counter that he is much more likely to stay healthy as a DH and it may preserve his elite bat longer.There is a lot not to like.
The Sox just handed $110 million to a 30-year old who figures to be a DH moving forward and has played more than 125 games in a season exactly once. And if he exceeds expectations, he’ll opt out after 2 years — so we don’t get the upside if JDM’s aging curve ends up looking like Dwight Evans’s, but we own the downside if his production falls off a cliff.
This looks like a deal done by a GM who felt he had to do something. Would’ve much rather seen him keep his powder dry.
I take the opposite view. Chances are for the next two years he'll be terrific allowing the team to be a top tier hitting team thus optimizing all the prior moves made of selling off the farm in order to win now. And if he stays beyond year 2, there are chances that his decline in year will still mean he is a superior hitter. The point is, his decline (especially in year 3) can still be very good. And that It's not etched in stone as he declines it means at 33 or 34 he will stink. And with years 4 and 5 as reset years, blowing past whatever threshold there will be won't be much of an issue.There is a lot not to like.
The Sox just handed $110 million to a 30-year old who figures to be a DH moving forward and has played more than 125 games in a season exactly once. And if he exceeds expectations, he’ll opt out after 2 years — so we don’t get the upside if JDM’s aging curve ends up looking like Dwight Evans’s, but we own the downside if his production falls off a cliff.
This looks like a deal done by a GM who felt he had to do something. Would’ve much rather seen him keep his powder dry.
Well neither of us can predict the future and of course they could be good in 2020, but don't you think their best shot is now until then given they have the best closer in the game (for a year) and two Cy Young candidates and an MVP candidate while those players are on the team?No, ‘most of us’ are not resigned to that. The pessimists are. Jesus shit, they’ve won 93 games the last two seasons and have a very young roster. I have no idea why people are so quick to say it’s all going to crumble so quickly.
There’s never any guarantees and with Hanley and Pablo dropping off, they can afford to retain some of that core and once you get in the dance, anything happens. Did 2013 honestly not teach you anything?Well of course they could be good in 2020, but don't you think their best shot is now until then given they have the best closer in the game and two Cy Young candidates and an MVP candidate while those players are on the team?
There is no guarantee any of the core stays after that. Add to that they have a bottom 10 farm system and probably not getting top 10 picks any time soon and the evidence is that a downturn could be coming.
I'm not a game threading pessimist.I have always been enthused with the future of the team since Theo took over. I can't recall a season where I didn't think they had a shot. I thought both last place finishes were flukey because so many previously great players had down years. I think this may be the most talented team they have ever had and fully intend to enjoy every game.There’s never any guarantees and with Hanley and Pablo dropping off, they can afford to retain some of that core and once you get in the dance, anything happens. Did 2013 honestly not teach you anything?
Farm systems can turn around quickly - positively or negatively; performances vary over such a long season; teams on paper mean shit. This isn’t a ‘Pats with TB12’ or ‘Cavs with Lebron’ window. That’s not this situation. They have plenty of talent to stay competitive.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to unload on you but it’s really fucking frustrating on this board to read about how this team is going to be in the doldrums in two years. There is a shit ton of moving parts to this game and they have a lot of great pieces in place, far more than a lot of teams and plenty of avenues to be a contender for a long time. This isn’t the NBA where you can pencil in the legit title contenders years ahead of time.