Jacksonity......or the Knick thread

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Lots happened this weekend, and there is a (in the parlance of Francesa) yuge, yuge game tonight against Milwaukee, ok. They threw up a stinker in Toronto when they couldn't make a shot from outside and appeared unprepared for a zone look. Then came home and took care of business against Detroit. The Toronto loss was frustrating but I'm willing to chalk that up to a standard lockoutugly performance since they bounced back well the next night.

Bad news is that Jeffries is out for two weeks, which is really damaging. The guy is quite simply invaluable. Watching Harrelson the last two games shows me that he gives you maybe 40% of what JJ brings.

Amare had some back stiffness--after the domination hes been throwing out, I have a real concern hell regress back.

Carmelo continues to be a shell of himself offensively but is still playing intense defense. Tells me there is something amiss with the wrist, elbow or both.

Lin tweaked his knee but is said to be fine.

Tonight they get new look Milwaukee. This is a big chance to put the 8th seed on lockdown and focus up the standings.

 

[jon abbey]

Zwerling at ESPN (a pretty bad writer/reporter FWIW) has both Lin and Amare questionable for tonight.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

[twitter]Steve Popper ‏
No Amar'e in the building for morning shoot. team didn't want him to drive from the city. Which sounds like his back is not so good. [/twitter]
[twitter]Steve Popper ‏
Amar'e expected to get his back treated today and a game-time decision - but teammates don't sound like they expect him to play. #Knicks[/twitter]
$%#@#@#$!!!^&^# one step forward, two steps back.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Isola just tweeted that Amare would have an MRI on the back, same injury that took him out last year.

Of course.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Lin out tonight. Amare out indefinitely with bulging disc.

Season may be over for the Knicks.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Amare is out 2 to 4 weeks after consulting with a second doctor.

The real shame is that this coincides with Jared Jeffries being out. Amare's nice 4 game offensive stretch not withstanding, if Jeffries were healthy I still think they'd have been better off with Jeffries getting more minutes. As it stands now, Harrelson is gonna have to step up big during this tough stretch coming up.

 

[jon abbey]

Lin is out tonight also, curious to see if Baron has a better game in him than the last one. It was pretty nice for once to not see NY overmatched defensively at both guard spots to start the game, I don't think it's a coincidence that Ellis and Jennings both shot so poorly (and Ellis went nuts last night against ATL, 33 and 8 assists). I still think Baron should start as he's a better option for the first 8 minutes of the game, and Lin should close and play 26-28 minutes to Baron's 20-22.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Lin is out tonight also, curious to see if Baron has a better game in him than the last one. It was pretty nice for once to not see NY overmatched defensively at both guard spots to start the game, I don't think it's a coincidence that Ellis and Jennings both shot so poorly (and Ellis went nuts last night against ATL, 33 and 8 assists). I still think Baron should start as he's a better option for the first 8 minutes of the game, and Lin should close and play 26-28 minutes to Baron's 20-22.

That's crappy news about Lin. He's proven himself to be fairly tough, but this is a big game and you'd like to see him come back quicker.

I'd like to see Douglas get some run tonight. He can defend, which is one more thing than Bibby can do at this point.

 

[jon abbey]

Melo finally looking like Melo tonight, 25 points in 26 minutes. Shumpert and Baron also with their best games of the year, NY was up 39 on Orlando in the third before they came back some and ended up winning by 22.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Melo looked great last night.

Howard's comments sound exactly like Melo's 3 weeks ago.

"When we want to play, we're a great team. We just have to bring that effort every night," Howard said. "It should be frustrating for everybody. We just have to step up and play the right way. When we don't, we have games like this."

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

The disc injury to Amare is fairly concerning when he does come back. I wasn't very familiar with this, but then my mom got one--basically, the disc is pushing on his spinal column, impacting his nerves down through his legs. I have to imagine it's going to sap him of most of the strength and explosiveness he's had this last week or two even if he is able to come back and not reinjure himself. The shot and the treatments are merely masking agents and preludes to surgery, which runs its own risks.

 

[Stu Nahan]

Add a calf injury to the hamstring problem that Baron Davis already has. He says he'll play tomorrow but he'll be limited at best. The Knicks are awfully thin at the point right now. Lin is targeting a Tuesday return but has to be an injury concern going forward considering his style of play and the shots he takes.

 

[jon abbey]

Also Chandler and Melo were playing hurt in that game, they're dropping like flies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-versus-atlanta-hawks.html?_r=1

 

[jon abbey]

"Jeremy Lin will be out for approximately six weeks after an MRI revealed a small chronic meniscus tear in his knee."

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

Knicks fans the world over are Linconsolable.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Well, this really sucks. At least they wont have to give him the MLE.

 

[Hendu's Gait]

Well, this really sucks. At least they wont have to give him the MLE. Now there's no hope of them beating the Heat or the Bulls to make it easier for the C's.

 

[jon abbey]

He's going to be hurt his whole career on and off, his style involves throwing his body into the opposing big men before shooting.

 

[ifmanis5]

Knicks should have sold high. Some dumb GM would have overpaid to get him.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

In that vein, hopefully the Knicks can now underpay to keep him. He's a minimum salary guy with bigger upside.

 

[Saby]

Liniscus...or the Knick thread.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Knicks should have sold high. Some dumb GM would have overpaid to get him.

Injury hindsight is 20/20. Between his performance and popularity, trading him would have been Linsane.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Possibly the best thing that could happen to Lim*, before he gets any further exposed. He's the Matt Flynn of the NBA. Some fool GM will give him crazy cash.









*that's Line + Him, for the slow

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Not to beat a dead horse when it's down, but does Dantoni deserve some retroactive blame for just killing Amare (last year) and Lin (this year) with minutes they clearly couldn't handle?

 

[jon abbey]

Knicks should have sold high. Some dumb GM would have overpaid to get him.

I recommended this at the height of 'Linsanity', FWIW, trying to bundle him into a Dwight Howard deal.

 

[LondonSox]

Not to beat a dead horse when it's down, but does Dantoni deserve some retroactive blame for just killing Amare (last year) and Lin (this year) with minutes they clearly couldn't handle?

Amare 100% long max uninsurable contract, non competitive team, run you vulnerable key guy into the ground in year one, for minimal gain.
Lin. Blah. No a lot of other options and he was not only trying to keep his job but keep pace until amare, melo, baron Davis and jr smith got there/healthy. Every time Lin came out the corpse of mike bibby would destroy a lead. You could say he should have give schump and novak more minutes etc but I get this. Plus early you thought he was a fluke and later he would have been fired or lynched. Plus there was at least no long term risk. His minutes shrunk when baron got there.

 

[jon abbey]

But D'Antoni never played his bench enough, he was really a lousy coach for so many reasons while here.

 

[slamminsammya]

Plus early you thought he was a fluke and later he would have been fired or linched.

Fixed that for you.

 

[jon abbey]

Welp, this team isn't making the playoffs unless one of their dreadful PGs starts to play a whole lot better.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Welp, this team isn't making the playoffs unless one of their dreadful PGs starts to play a whole lot better.

Not usually one to complain about the referees, but the Knicks really got Joey Crawford-ed last night. That and a few terrible bounces were contributing factors to an awful loss.

 

[jon abbey]

Toney Douglas with his first good game of the year and JR Smith with a career high 9 assists, admittedly against the disintegrating Magic, but we'll take it.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

The Knicks are a terrible matchup for Orlando. They have the one center in basketball who can deal with Howard with only moderate help, athletic wings and an elite perimeter scoring option they can't defend. Would love to see them in the playoffs somehow.

 

[jon abbey]

What a win for NY, an incredible start (27-6!), then a great comeback (10-0 to end regulation, aided by 4 missed FTs from Chicago), and then another comeback from down 4 in OT capped by a looong 3 by Melo, who had 43, his best game of the year. Shumpert is incredible, he outplayed Rose head to head and the four steals he's credited with don't even begin to tell the story.

 

[Witters]

Yep, that was a great game for the Knicks. This Bulls team isn't winning anything, I don't think, even though they crawled back into this one, they just look eminently beatable to me recently.

 

[jon abbey]

Arguably Melo's best regular season game of his career, given the importance of the game and the defensive level of the opposition. He's had 9 other games of 43+ (all in Denver), only 5 of which his team won, and I don't think any near this big for his team.

Also, that was the first time NY has come back from 10 down with less than 4 minutes to go and won in any game since December 2000. Exhilarating to watch, whew.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

SO many things about this game to analyze. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head:

-Amazing that they could even play with a team that strong defensively without a point guard for the entire fourth quarter. Unreal.
-Tyson. Tyson. Tyson. Maybe the biggest underrated turning point of the game was the refs calling Melo for a foul on Noah in OT when it appeared from the replay that it should've been Tyson's sixth. If that doesn't happen, all the tipouts and hustle plays don't happen, and Melo never even gets the final shot.
-I got so pissed off I actually said "If he shoots again I'm going to murder J.R. Smith's family." Holy crap with that guy. I am impressed though with his defense and rebounding, which ended up making a difference. But not compared to his atrocious shot selection.
-The titanic swing in this game standings-wise cannot be overestimated. Rather than being tied with Milwaukee for the last spot and likely to fall behind (hard to believe they'll repeat this on the road in Chicago) heading into Wednesday night's game, they are now a full game up on the 8th and tonight they'll either be tied for 7th or just two back in the division. If they can play like this, the 4 seed is a real possibility. Go Philly!

 

[jon abbey]

Smith has to shoot with this set of personnel, he just needs better shot selection and obviously to hit more. But if Novak can't get free, Baron/Douglas are zeros, Jeffries and Chandler can't generate offense, and Melo is sitting, Smith should be shooting a lot of the time. He will start hitting, he has years of history of being able to score in bunches, he's healthy and he's still young.

If OKC can beat MIL tomorrow, there's a good argument to semi-tank Tuesday in CHI and rest up Chandler and Melo for the big Wednesday game in MIL.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

I disagree with the "semi-tanking" approach. Given Philly's implosion and the softness of the back half of the Knicks remaining schedule, I'm pretty confident they'll make it in as either the 7th or 8th seed. However, if they are able to steal another game from Chicago or Miami, beat the Celtics at home, and otherwise generally take care of business, the division is nominally within reach.

I'm not really sure what "semi-tanking" entails, other than lowering the threshold for what constitutes garbage time (since they aren't pulling a San Antonio and sending Melo and Chandler straight to Milwaukee). I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think Woodson should have too quick a hook: if they are down 12 with 9 minutes left, I don't think he should sit Melo and Tyson the rest of the way, for instance.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Smith has to shoot with this set of personnel, he just needs better shot selection and obviously to hit more. But if Novak can't get free, Baron/Douglas are zeros, Jeffries and Chandler can't generate offense, and Melo is sitting, Smith should be shooting a lot of the time. He will start hitting, he has years of history of being able to score in bunches, he's healthy and he's still young.

If OKC can beat MIL tomorrow, there's a good argument to semi-tank Tuesday in CHI and rest up Chandler and Melo for the big Wednesday game in MIL.

Yeah, I'm not crazy about him, but Smith is the guy that should be shooting for that unit. What always frustrates me about him is that he seems to believe in this odd concept of "earned shots". It feels like every time he pulls down an offensive rebound he responds by taking a three pointer 4 seconds into the new shot clock, or every time he comes away with a steal, he takes a contested 23 foot jump shot.

His percentages are way down though. Does anybody know how far the 3 point line is in China? I wonder if he's been forced to readjust to a new distance or something.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Yeah, I'm not crazy about him, but Smith is the guy that should be shooting for that unit. What always frustrates me about him is that he seems to believe in this odd concept of "earned shots". It feels like every time he pulls down an offensive rebound he responds by taking a three pointer 4 seconds into the new shot clock, or every time he comes away with a steal, he takes a contested 23 foot jump shot.

His percentages are way down though. Does anybody know how far the 3 point line is in China? I wonder if he's been forced to readjust to a new distance or something.

Its not that I'm advocating against J.R. Smith shooting, its just the blatant awfulness of the shots he's taking has to improve. The guy is comically opposed to going to the basket, although he has the quickness and athleticism to get there and finish.

And can we talk about what a special player Shumpert is turning into? This guy is going to be an All-Star. His shot is improving, he has limitless athleticism and he is an all-world defender already. Plus, he really appears to have the mental toughness to improve his game and thrive in New York.

Thank you Donnie Walsh!

 

[jon abbey]

And can we talk about what a special player Shumpert is turning into? This guy is going to be an All-Star. His shot is improving, he has limitless athleticism and he is an all-world defender already. Plus, he really appears to have the mental toughness to improve his game and thrive in New York.

Man, I've been talking about that all year. Steve Smith said on NBA-TV last night when analyzing this game: "guys like Shumpert and LeBron can bother Rose". GUYS LIKE SHUMPERT AND LEBRON. Loving that...

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Yep, Shumpert was a steal where he was drafted. Though, in defense of the teams drafting ahead of the Knicks, it's looking like 2011 was a pretty deep draft and there weren't many swings and misses before 17.

He really is an elite defender though, and chances are that as he gains experience he'll be even better. And given the strength of the point guard position around the league right now, and the growing number of big, athletic 1's like Rose, Rondo, Wall, and Westbrook, having a guard that can defend those types of players is essential.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Wanted to point out something interesting about the way Woodson coached the last defensive possession (saw this video on theknicksblog.com, for the record)


At the last minute, Shumpert switches places with Fields, allowing him to defend Rose without having to fight through the three screens Chicago set up. It has been a long time since we've had a coach who has the eye to see how the offense is setting up, and the presence of mind to move his elite defender off his assigned guy. This defensive play call obviously worked out brilliantly for the Knicks. I won't bash D'Antoni here, because I can't think of more than a handful of coaches who make this adjustment so quickly and at such a pivotal moment. The more I see from Woodson, the more I think he's a real option next year.

 

[jon abbey]

I read elsewhere that was Shumpert's decision, it certainly scared the crap out of me live for a second. I'd be curious to know definitively whose call that was.

I am happy to bash D'Antoni, I wonder where this team would be right now if Woodson had been in charge the whole year.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

I read elsewhere that was Shumpert's decision, it certainly scared the crap out of me live for a second. I'd be curious to know definitively whose call that was.

I am happy to bash D'Antoni, I wonder where this team would be right now if Woodson had been in charge the whole year.

If you watch the video you see Shumpert looking back at Woodson, who then demonstrably points in the direction of Fields. Shumpert then runs to Fields and tells him to switch up.

 

[simplyeric]

If you watch the video you see Shumpert looking back at Woodson, who then demonstrably points in the direction of Fields. Shumpert then runs to Fields and tells him to switch up.

Good non-call on the stumble and chaos, with a moving screen that trips them up and completely reorders the play.

 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Two potentially beneficial developments for the Knicks last night: OKC takes care of business vs Milwaukee and it's revealed that DRose has a bad ankle and may not play tonight.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Could be a huge win tonight if Miami beats Boston or Philly loses. I don't think anyone thinks the Knicks are a chamionship team right now but there's no way Chicago or Miami want to play them in the playoffs with the way their defense has been under Woody.

 

[jon abbey]

There are increasing parallels with the 2004-2005 Nuggets:

Nuggets: fired their coach after starting the season 17-25
Knicks: fired their coach after starting the season 18-24

Nuggets: under the new coach, 32-8 and up to the 7th seed
Knicks: under the new coach, 15-5 and counting and up to the 7th seed

Nuggets: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 30 year old stud defensive center Marcus Camby
Knicks: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 29 year old stud defensive center Tyson Chandler

Nuggets: lost 4-1 to #2 seed and eventual NBA champions San Antonio
Knicks: ?????

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Knicks are adding Dan Gadzuric and cutting Bill Walker for the playoffs.

Adds more depth to the front line, I guess.