Jacksonity......or the Knick thread

[jon abbey]

NY was 29th in the league in team turnovers last year and are currently 1st, one basketball reason why Lin was less than an ideal fit for this team/system as opposed to Felton. Kidd is a complicating factor as he would have been here and a major upgrade on last year either way, but I still think there's some truth there.

NY is now a quiet 22-6 in regular season games under Woodson, which is a 64-18 pace.

 

[jon abbey]

NY has been playing some stifling second half defense: 40, 40, 40, 37 points allowed in the four games thus far, and that includes the two highest scoring teams in the league (MIA and DAL).

 

[jon abbey]

I can't find a source online to corroborate this, but one of the highlight shows said that NY was only the third team in league history to win their first five games of the season all by double digits, the 1985-86 Nuggets and I think a team in the 50s.

Not a great effort from NY tonight, ball movement was way down and they settled for the first open shot on most possessions (Felton took 23 shots!) instead of trying to get a better one. But they turned it on down the stretch, JR Smith is playing great (13/18 from 3 point range so far), Kidd always seems to make big plays, etc, etc.

The schedule now gets way tougher, @SA and MEM back to back on Thursday and Friday.

 

[bowiac]

Is this thread where the mea culpas go?

I still don't think much of Melo, but the complimentary pieces for the Knicks have looked spectacular. I didn't think it would be enough, and even though it's only five games, I've seen enough to say I was wrong.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Is this thread where the mea culpas go?

I still don't think much of Melo, but the complimentary pieces for the Knicks have looked spectacular. I didn't think it would be enough, and even though it's only five games, I've seen enough to say I was wrong.

Yeah, I've been really hard on Mike Woodson here. I knew the defense would be there again, but I've been really impressed with the complexity he's brought to the offensive end this year. Age may still turn out to be an issue, but the early returns are obviously really good. These next two games are going to give us a really good sense of how they stack up against the rest of the league.

 

[jon abbey]

Fantastic comeback win in San Antonio, down 12 with 7 minutes left, NY went on a 25-6 run, and the amazing thing is they did it without much offensive help from Melo (3-12 for the game, SA focused on taking him out of the offense). Felton had his best game of the year, and Kidd hit three huge threes to fuel the comeback. NY had only 7 turnovers for the whole game, and I think 4 of those were in the first quarter.

6-0, on to Memphis tomorrow.

 

[NatetheGreat]

Jason Kidd is a basketball supergenius. Its amazing how much better that team looks with him on the floor.

 

[ElUno20]

Memphis may end this run but big props to the knicks. East needs another real team.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Fantastic comeback win in San Antonio, down 12 with 7 minutes left, NY went on a 25-6 run, and the amazing thing is they did it without much offensive help from Melo (3-12 for the game, SA focused on taking him out of the offense). Felton had his best game of the year, and Kidd hit three huge threes to fuel the comeback. NY had only 7 turnovers for the whole game, and I think 4 of those were in the first quarter.

6-0, on to Memphis tomorrow.

The last two games have shown us how teams are going to defend this version of the Knicks. Everybody has been going under screens now and making Felton shoot it, and he's done so well enough to keep the offense going. I can't say I particularly want Ray Felton to be taking 20 shots a game, but I'm glad that he's shown the ability to knock down shots and get to the rim so that teams have to play him honestly.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I think we're seeing what was speculated this summer, which is that the Lin decision really was about basketball.

They may have realized that Lin, Amare, and Carmelo is too much ball-hogging defensive mediocrity for one roster. Suddenly, with two of those three not out there, they are a much better team.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I think we're seeing what was speculated this summer, which is that the Lin decision really was about basketball.

They may have realized that Lin, Amare, and Carmelo is too much ball-hogging defensive mediocrity for one roster. Suddenly, with two of those three not out there, they are a much better team.

I think, unfortunately, that the real key there is Amare. Given that Lin has been replaced by Felton, it's not like you can really argue that he's been replaced by a plus defender. And Anthony is just much better at the 4 now. Everything they're doing hinges on him at the 4. At this point, everybody in the world knows Amare needs to come off the bench when he returns. Everybody but James Dolan. Hopefully the early season success has made it clear to him that he needs to be hands off.

 

[dolomite133]

I think, unfortunately, that the real key there is Amare. Given that Lin has been replaced by Felton, it's not like you can really argue that he's been replaced by a plus defender. And Anthony is just much better at the 4 now. Everything they're doing hinges on him at the 4. At this point, everybody in the world knows Amare needs to come off the bench when he returns. Everybody but James Dolan. Hopefully the early season success has made it clear to him that he needs to be hands off.

I came here to post this very thing. Too bad they'll probably fuck it up. Much as I hate the Knicks, the league is better off when they are good.

EDIT: btw, when is ESPN going to issue a public apology for overhyping and overcovering Lin over the past six months?

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I came here to post this very thing. Too bad they'll probably fuck it up. Much as I hate the Knicks, the league is better off when they are good.

EDIT: btw, when is ESPN going to issue a public apology for overhyping and overcovering Lin over the past six months?

As soon as they finish up their three day long special report on what an anonymous Jets' defender said about Tim Tebow.

 

[jon abbey]

The more NY wins now, the more likely it is that Amar'e actually will come off the bench when he comes back. He's a smart guy, he might even volunteer to do so if Woodson wants. FWIW, today is his 30th birthday, the Knicks gave him a cake after the game, and he was quoted (or maybe he tweeted) that it was nice but the best present was the win, so I do think there's hope.

 

[Saby]

I'm curious what Knick fans think about D'Antoni coaching the Lakers. Could his offense adapt to an aeging roster? Are his teams' defensive woes blown out of proportion?

 

[jon abbey]

I don't think an aging roster is the issue as much as his disinterest in using the post. He showed zero ability to adapt his system in NY and will certainly need to do that for the Laker personnel, but I also think when you have Nash on the floor on offense and Howard on D, you have to work hard as a coach to screw that up.

Another thing that no one talks about with D'Antoni is that he's terrible at diagramming plays at timeouts. Again, Nash's presence might make this irrelevant, but worth noting anyway.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

How do you assess that he's terrible at that, out of curiosity?

 

[jon abbey]

Just the eye test and consensus when I brought it up on Knickerblogger last year and maybe the year before also (http://knickerblogger.net). As soon as Woodson took over, there was a marked improvement in this department. Of course, some of this was the horrendous PG play (outside of the Lin stretch) for NY last year, but again, this didn't seem to hamper Woodson. D'Antoni goes as his PGs go, more than probably any NBA coach in history.

As long as I'm here, Jason Kidd can't really get too much credit for NY's performance so far. Check out these quotes after last night's game:

“After a Splitter layup off a bullet pass from Tony Parker (19 points) put the Spurs up 12 with 7:14 left, the Knicks called time and the huddle became chaotic with Woodson shouting and the players shouting back.

“Jason was one of the guys who kept us composed when they went up 12 points,’’ Anthony said. “He huddled us up and told us they’re going to let us back in. Play some defense, we’re going to score the basketball. Everyone took heed of that.’’

“That’s when we told [Woodson] to calm down,’’ Chandler said. “We said listen, we have a chance here. We’re not out of this game. Everyone was getting a little frantic.’’”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/guards_spark_perfect_rally_for_statement_EbrVLpj7nSkk7KhD3LnygN

 

[Blacken]

The Knicks/Grizzlies game was fantastic up to the half. Then the Knicks melted straight down and the referees poured gasoline on the tire fire.

JR Smith is an asshole who should be killed.

 

[jon abbey]

That was probably two of NY's seven toughest games of the year back to back (@MIA, MIA, OKC, SA, LAL, LAC, MEM), very happy with a split. Not much positive to take away from that one except that Sheed had easily his best game thus far, 13 points and 3 blocks in 24 minutes and that NY rallied after going down 20+ and cut it to 8, but couldn't get closer than that.

Also, Jeremy Lin was replaced by Toney Douglas for the entire OT in Portland just now, presumably because he couldn't stop Lillard (new high of 27).

 

[jon abbey]

Knicks keep up the .750 winning percentage under Woodson (18-6 last year, 9-3 now this year) today with a fairly easy home win against Detroit. Chandler rebounded from his dreadful game in Houston with a better one today, although he still doesn't fully look like himself and he will be tested even more tomorrow against Brook Lopez. It's kind of scary, but at least with Amar'e and Shumpert out, this team seems like it goes as JR Smith and Sheed go, their primary bench players, and both played well today.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Last night was the first time this season that the Knicks resembled last year's ISO heavy team from the playoffs. They really struggled to create open looks, and the emphasis on making the extra pass that we've seen all year was rendered irrelevant because there wasn't any movement off the ball. Avery Johnson did a really good job of taking advantage of Woodson's switch heavy defense and found a way to isolate Felton on one of the Nets bigger guards or Wallace all night long. Speaking of Felton, he was really awful last night, and seemed to miss the presence of Kidd a lot. He shot 3 of 19, which included 9 misses from the 6 minute mark of the 4th quarter on. I really can't think of any reason why he deserved 42 minutes last night; I'd much rather have seen Prigioni on the court.

 

[jon abbey]

Prigioni is pretty terrible, though, the offense seems to totally stagnate with him in there. His one skill is stealing the ball in the backcourt, and he is pretty great at it.

I was at the game last night, NY really missed Kidd. Brewer also got hurt midway, and when you combine that with Camby's continued sluggishness, Kurt Thomas being Kurt Thomas, Novak being unable to get clean looks once again, JR Smith looking like he partied all night, and Felton having literally the worst shooting game of his career (he had two 3-17s in CHA), it's amazing they had a chance at a gamewinning shot at the end against a good team on the road.

Kidd is missing tonight in MIL too, not optimistic about NY's chances.

 

[jon abbey]

Good call on more Prigioni, he gave them a poor man's Kidd effort tonight. Novak with a huge effort tonight also, one of the nicer wins of the season given the personnel and the fact that NY's main guys all played a ton of minutes in an intense game two days before (Melo 50, Chandler 45, Felton 42).

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Good call on more Prigioni, he gave them a poor man's Kidd effort tonight. Novak with a huge effort tonight also, one of the nicer wins of the season given the personnel and the fact that NY's main guys all played a ton of minutes in an intense game two days before (Melo 50, Chandler 45, Felton 42).

I wish that when I called for Prigioni I was expecting him to score, but really I just like what he brings to the table in regards to ball movement. Against Brooklyn, the offense looked really stagnant, things seemed to be flowing better last night, although I had work to do and was only able to half watch.

 

[jon abbey]

NY wins 11 games in November for the first time since 1972-1973, also the last time they won a title (please note that I have zero expectations of them seriously competing for the latter this year).

They have been impressively tough at home though under Woodson, 17-1 now in parts of two regular seasons and all six this year have been by double figures.

 

[NatetheGreat]

NY wins 11 games in November for the first time since 1972-1973, also the last time they won a title (please note that I have zero expectations of them seriously competing for the latter this year).

They have been impressively tough at home though under Woodson, 17-1 now in parts of two regular seasons and all six this year have been by double figures.

Its the Nets hottest start to the season as well. Its definitely a good time to be a basketball fan in New York.

 

[jon abbey]

NY steals a win in Charlotte at the buzzer in a strange game all around, in part because NY is presumably looking forward to playing in Miami tomorrow (where they're likely going to get stomped, although Chalmers/Battier I think are out).

The more interesting point is that now Woodson has coached precisely one half season in NY (not counting the playoffs), and is an amazing 31-10. Mike D'an-who?

 

[jon abbey]

You don't get much more of a statement game than that in early December, Miami's worst home loss in three seasons with LeBron/Wade/Bosh all in there, and NY without Melo and on a back to back when Miami had the night before off.

Felton was incredible, that must have been his best game as a pro, he made me think of Tim Hardaway for the first time, just a bulldog all game long. Jason Kidd the basketball wizard continued his ridiculously strong play with a +31 in 33 minutes (!!!).

 

[Nick Kaufman]

I think that when you ve got Miami almost losing to the skrub version of the Spurs, lose to the Wizards (!) and then lose to the Knicks in such a convincing fashion, the common thread isn't how good those teams are or aren't but probably that Miami is going through a rough patch right now.

 

[jon abbey]

Sure, but NY also won in San Antonio and is the only team still undefeated at home, they've been playing great and they still have a wave of internal reinforcements coming in Amar'e and Shumpert and hopefully Camby (who has a plantar fascia issue now).

LeBron only had one 20 point loss in 2 seasons in Miami before this year, NY has tripled that number with their two blowouts already this season.

Also, that was Wade's worst +/- game ever at -33, matched up against Kidd the bulk of the time.

 

[jon abbey]

Quite the rivalry has developed in just two games between NY and Brooklyn, by the end of tonight half the players out there were limping. Incredible efforts by Melo and Kidd (as usual) to steal a road game where they were down 17 early, Kidd just refuses to let NY lose games.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Great game. This team is incredibly fun to watch. I have to wonder how Smith stood out there for so long. Maybe it's my baseball brain where anything resembling a limp has you out for 2 weeks but Smith was really struggling out there.

 

[jon abbey]

NY steals a win after a thoroughly lazy effort for most of the game, only leading for 1:32 all game (19 seconds in the first quarter and the final 1:13). Melo went nuts in the 4th, 19 points in the quarter, 12 in the final 1:53 (the last 4 on intentional fouls to get the ball back, but still).

NY really needs some guys back, though, Amar'e, Camby, Sheed, Shumpert, anyone would help.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Camby should be back for Tuesday's game and Amare soonafter. I was at the game Friday and it was just awful. They haven't had much energy the past couple of games.

 

[jon abbey]

Kidd has kind of turned back into a pumpkin, 0 points and 1 assist in 34 minutes is not going to cut it.

 

[jon abbey]

Knicks B lineup wins in Phoenix at the buzzer on two ridiculous shots by JR Smith. Which of these teams would you rather have?

Sheed, Amar'e, Melo, Shumpert, Felton
Chandler, Kurt Thomas, James White, Ronnie Brewer, Kidd

The first is the Knicks who missed this one with injuries, the second the actual starters. Kidd had 23/8/6 and had a +13 in a 2 point win, somehow his hands are always in the right place even though he has pretty much no hops left.

On the downside, Felton's finger is fractured and it looks like he'll miss 4-6 weeks. He's been the target of a lot of criticism for his poor shooting (not entirely fairly IMO), but NY is going to have trouble against athletic guards without Shumpert or him, and Kidd's minutes are piling up much too fast.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Knicks with an impressive win against the Spurs last night. After a stretch of games where they were iffy on the defensive end, it was nice to see the intensity there on that side of the court against an offense that had been rolling. Prigioni had likely his best game as a Knick, running the offense effectively, and playing sneaky defense. I was also glad to see Camby taking Kurt Thomas' minutes. Nice to see Woodson giving a young guy a chance.

 

[slamminsammya]

Amare was a -19 last night.

 

[jon abbey]

Shumpert has been cleared to practice, he will be an Avery Bradley-like addition if he can come back at the same athletic level he was last year. NY really needs to bump Prigioni out of the rotation, a Shumpert/JR Smith guard combo with Smith playing PG on offense would be interesting to try.

 

[Wilco's Last Fan]

Melo suspended one game: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-talks-kg-doesn-suspended-article-1.1236584

 

[jon abbey]

Rumors are that Kenyon Martin is very close to signing with NY, hopefully Kurt Thomas would be the guy dropped for him.

 

[Blacken]

 

[ifmanis5]

Suddenly the Knicks are who we thought they were.

The old guys are slowing down. The three point shooting was unsustainable. Melo was bound to unravel because he's not truly elite. Amare always fucks things up. Steve Novak is still Steve Novak.

Or, just perhaps, Ray Felton is a lot more valuable than we previously considered.

 

[slamminsammya]

Or, just perhaps, Ray Felton is a lot more valuable than we previously considered.

This should never be a conclusion for anything.

 

[86spike]

This should never be a conclusion for anything.

Maybe for pie eating contests.

 

[Stu Nahan]

They have a couple of games coming up that they should win. With that said, the last stretch does not bode well.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

It actually does have a lot to do with Felton, which probably isn't good news for their longterm prodpects this season.

Currently thoigh, the pick and roll is doing nothing for them. Kidd never goes to the rim, and Prigioni doesn't shoot, which makes the pick and roll useless. And the P&R was a big part of what they did earlier in the year with Felton and Chandler.

Additionally, the loss of Felton 's made their three guard lineups less effective, which has led to waaaaaay to minutes of Woodson pretending Carmelo is a 3 still.

 

[knucklecup]

They're not hitting shots at the rate they did in the early part of the season. I think we're going to look back at this thread with a lot of laughter by seasons end when they're bounced in the first round.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Apparently James Dolan ordered an audio crew to tape courtside conversation between Melo and his opponents, specifically against the Bulls last Friday. I'm not even sure where to begin.

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1240213