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Horse Racing/Triple Crown Thread

Discussion in 'General Sports' started by WayBackVazquez, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    It's time to start this up again.
     
    On the road to the Triple Crown, Materiality won the Florida Derby going away, albeit in a very slow time. International Star won the Louisiana Derby. Mubtaahij out of the UAE won the UAE Derby by a lot, but may not have the chops to compete over here and will have to deal with the transition. Carpe Diem won the Tampa Bay Derby and will go next in the Blue Grass.
     
    Out here, Baffert's in the mix again with two horses. Dortmund is the early Kentucky Derby favorite and will go this Saturday in the Santa Anita Derby. American Pharoah will ship to Oaklawn for the Arkansas Derby.
     
    On my personal front, I'll be at Santa Anita for the Derby and Oaks this Saturday as Goose Bumps will finally make her first start in the second race, a $56k MSW. I wish I could pass along inside info that she's been blowing it out, but frankly, she hasn't been very impressive. Last time out she worked 4 furlongs from the gate in 48.80, though we were shooting for 48 flat. But she's healthy, and ready to go, as is Victor Espinoza who'll ride her, which is pretty cool. The favorite in the race should be Jerry Hollendorfer's Never Ends, but the field should be pretty open otherwise.
     
  2. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Very cool WBV.  Hopefully, Goose Bumps will surprise.  I'll throw a few bucks on her either way. 
     
  3. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Dortmund took care of business easily, and remains the Derby favorite. Carpe Diem also lived up to his hype in the Blue Grass, winning by a few lengths. Frosted, another son of Tapit, won by two lengths in the Wood Memorial. I'm looking forward to seeing Amercan Pharoah on Saturday in the Arkansas Derby. 
     
    Goose Bumps was not a factor, and will drop in class and probably go longer in her next race.
     
  4. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Goose Bumps wasn't a factor, but it's pretty damn cool to get that first race under your belt as an owner.  I haven't had a chance to see any of my horses race in person, but I'm looking forward to it.  Did you head down to the stables and stuff? 
     
    Also, been paying attention to Condo Commando lately.  That's the horse that beat one of mine, Fusiachi Red, in their first start each.  Red finished second, like 13 lengths back, while CC looked to be another level.  Sure enough, it was a sign of things to come. That race was in August of last year, and CC has won 4 of 5 races since, all stakes races, including back to back to back Grade 2's, with the most recent being the $300,000 Gazelle Stakes on April 4th at Aqueduct, in which CC was the odd's on favorite and won by 2.5 lengths.  He won the Busher Stakes by almost 5 lengths, and the $400,000 Demoiselle Stakes by a ridiculous 11.5 lengths.  The only race CC didn't win was the $500,000 Frizette Stakes, which was run in the rain under sloppy conditions and just didn't seem to take to it.  One of the horses that finished ahead of her, Wonder Gal, she subsequently destroyed in a later race.  
     
    I'll be curious to see if CC gets any play for Churchill as he just turned 3 at the beginning of March.  
     
  5. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Fusaichi Red was supposed to run today if the race was run on the main track, but it went on the turf, so they scratched her at Gulf Stream.  She's been out for about 6 months recovering from an injury after finishing 2nd in both of her races.  Once to the aforementioned Condo Commando, and the other to Clothes Fall Off, who remains undefeated since she hasn't run since.  Hopefully, we'll get her into a race soon.  
     
    Maddizaskar has an 8th and 2 5th place finishes since she won her debut, but just had a workout recently, and should be back in something soon. 
     
    Twist 'n Bake won a race, and then finished second, and was inexplicably lost to a $25,000 claim following that race, won her first race off the claim with her new barn.  That barn lost her immediately following that race for a $25,000 claim (so they bought her for $25,000, put her in a race a week later and won $14,400, and then sold her for $25,000 immediately after the race).  Her new barn put her into a race 12 days later, and she was running with the leaders before falling to 9th at the end.  I think it was just a matter of the distance (1 and 1/16th of a mile, vs. mile which was her previous long) and the fact that she was running her third race in just about a month that she got tired in the end, but you can bet your ass I'll be betting her when she runs again. 
     
  6. dixielandbandana

    dixielandbandana Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not much of a handicapper, but American Pharoah looked impressive under pretty much a hand ride during the Arkansas Derby yesterday. Faster fractions than any of the other prep races I've watched, too!
     
  7. dixielandbandana

    dixielandbandana Member SoSH Member

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  8. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Good luck winning from the 18.
     
    If the odds stay high, I like the UAE horse.  Normally I don't like them coming over, but if the odds are high enough, I'd take a flyer.
     
  9. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Meh, the 18 is no big deal. The 19 post didn't stop I'll Have Another a few years ago. And Animal Kingdom was outside the year before.
     
  10. twothousandone

    twothousandone Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Firing Line lost in a photo finish to Dortmund in December, then pulled away slightly, only to be caught and lose by a head in Feb. Both of those at 1 1/16. They went their own ways and both were impressive winning at 1 1/8, as was AP. Firing Line with a track record in New Mexico. So, I'm keeping an eye on him.
     
    Yesterday, I was liking Firing Line at 12-1 versus Dortmund at 3-1 or American Pharaoh at 5-2.  When it's 10-1 versus 5-1 (and 5-2), I'm not so sure. 
     
    And Big Brown was 2008?  Time must be going faster.
     
  11. Dehere

    Dehere Member SoSH Member

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    Hi from Churchill Downs. Huge crowd and perfect weather here today for Oaks Day.

    Firing Line really seems to be the now horse. Everybody talking about him, including Stevens who was touting him last night at a fundraiser. He's my second choice but could not agree more with post above that if Dortmund holds around 5 and FL around 10 it's very tempting to just not overthink it and play Dortmund to simply win it. Rail very good here today and I think from the 8 hole Dortmund can secure the lead and the rail straightening for home.
     
  12. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Condo Commando, who I've been talking about since she beat my horse, Fusiachi Red, in both of their debuts last year, is one of the favorites in the Oaks, going off in about 15 minutes.   Line is 9-2 at the moment.   Love her. 
     
  13. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    And she's ridden by my favorite jockey, Joel Rosario.
     
  14. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Wow.  Rosario had her right where she wanted to be, out in front.  CC had never lost when out in front, and she just didn't have it for the stretch run today.  Lovely Maria for the win.  
     
  15. Erik Hanson's Hook

    Erik Hanson's Hook Member SoSH Member

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    dat Gront suit tho
     
    [​IMG]
     
  16. visalia oak

    visalia oak Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm going with Frosted, although Materiality could really be any kind of horse.
     
  17. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    what time is the race again? 6:24?
     
  18. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    It'll probably be 6:40 before the post.
     
  19. canderson

    canderson Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    6:44 p.m.

    Post is 6:40 p.m.

    So sayeth USA Today.
     
  20. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    I think sooner, like in a couple of minutes sooner.
     
  21. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Give me Itsaknockout.  I've done little research and am not actually placing a bet this year, so he'll probably win.
     
  22. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Commercial break, then they have to load 'em in.  It could be 6-8 more minutes.  And if any horse balks, well, that will make it interesting.
     
  23. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    wonder what these ads cost to air.
     
  24. canderson

    canderson Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Give me Dortmund.
     
  25. canderson

    canderson Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    And the horse who America misspelled wins.
     
  26. GraysonGrandeGonads

    GraysonGrandeGonads Banned

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    Ahmed Zayat, Victor Espinosa, and little Boyd Baffert
     
    3 distinct examples of why America is so great
     
  27. Beomoose

    Beomoose Member SoSH Member

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    Thought for a minute that Dortmund was going wire-to-wire, he's a beast of a horse.

    What's the early word on American Spelling Problem's chances at the Preakness?
     
  28. twothousandone

    twothousandone Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Frosted looked to be 10-15 lengths back at the top of the stretch, and he ended up 3 back.
    AND he won the Wood.
    He's my pick in the Belmont.
     
  29. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    He'll probably win in two weeks and then lose to a new horse or a horse that skips the Preakness at the Belmont.  Just the way things go.
     
  30. Dan Murfman

    Dan Murfman Member SoSH Member

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    I'm giving up for today. I was betting race 2 at Pimlico. The bet was supposed to be $2 trifecta #5 #1 all and #5 all #1. It comes in 5 6 1 and pays $335. I screwed up and only bet the 5 1 all. Moron
     
  31. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    GREAT seeing Bob Neumeier on tv.
     
  32. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    oh awesome; they're going to race in the mud.
     
  33. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    Mud horse race
     
  34. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Whose father is a mudder?  Whose mother is a mudder?
     
  35. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L3KU5eiEBo
     
  36. Average Reds

    Average Reds Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    This is ridiculously awesome.
     
  37. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    gotta suck if you paid for tickets only to be evacuated from your seats minutes before the race.
     
  38. PseuFighter

    PseuFighter Silent scenester SoSH Member

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    11,981
  39. Beomoose

    Beomoose Member SoSH Member

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    Jeez, Baffert should probably do a rain dance before Belmont
     
  40. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    American Pharoah has run freakish races both times he's raced on sloppy tracks
     
  41. DukeSox

    DukeSox Rick Derris SoSH Member

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    That was some slop
     
  42. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'm going to right out and say it: I will be rooting against this horse at the Belmont. I love racing; I'm proud of California, and am now a member of the TOC, but I really don't want this horse to be the one to break the streak. I just think this is a horse in a week 3-year old year, who will not win as a 4-year old and is not a great horse.
     
  43. twothousandone

    twothousandone Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Interesting take. Dortmund was highly regarded -- and unbeaten. Firing Line was pretty darn good, then got a HoF jockey. Neither lay down for American Pharoah in the Derby. The slop of the Preakness was a curve ball, and seemingly ONLY AP took it in stride. Win at a mile and half, with Dortmund (and maybe Firing Line) in the mix with Frosted breathing down his neck for the final two furlongs? That's pretty good.

    I don't dispute that the times don't indicate greatness, but hell. Like Jimmy V sort of said, you can only beat the guys who show up.
     
  44. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Yeah, and I think I've cooled off a little bit. I think that a Triple Crown winner would probably good for the sport, and good for California racing (which really needs it). My heart and my eyes are telling me this horse isn't one of the greats, and I guess I feel bad for some of those I grew attached to but couldn't pull it off, but I'm going to get over it.
     
  45. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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  46. Blundatola

    Blundatola Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I'm curious what horses you feel should have pulled it off.  I remember being crushed when Smarty Jones got passed in the Belmont only to learn later that he didn't have the pedigree for distance.  I'll take your word for it that American Pharaoh isn't a great horse, but man I want to see a Triple Crown winner!
     
  47. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    Spectacular Bid was the first horse that I loved, and obviously a great. Alysheba was a great horse. Smarty Jones and Big Brown both had potential for greatness.
     
  48. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    I'm on both sides of the argument on this one.  I totally see what WBV is saying about Pharaoh, and I don't think he's one of the all time greats, but damn it, I just want to see a triple crown so fucking bad, that i don't care anymore who wins it.  And if Pharaoh pulls it off, no matter how grudgingly it'll be, he'll have to be considered one of the greats.  We've seen so, so many horses, great horses, try and fail to win that third leg that, by definition, winning it makes you a hall of famer. 
     
    I also loved Smarty Jones and Big Brown, but there are a few others there that I would have loved to seen pull it off.  I was never a huge fan of Chrome, but that would have been an awesome story, and I grew to like I'll Have Another as the triple crown went on that year, but for me, Alysheba was the first horse I really got into it for and wanted to see win it.  He almost got knocked down at the start of the Derby and went on to win, albeit, not in the fastest race.  Ultimately, he lost the Belmont, and a lot of people think it was because Lasix was banned in NY at the time.  Not long after that, he faced the Belmont winner again, Bet Twice, and lost at the wire.  Alysheba then lost the Breeders Cup Classic to Ferdinand in one of the best races ever, by a nose.  That was only the second time Derby winners faced off (Spectacular Bid and Affirmed were the first), and Ferdinand was the real deal, but Alysheba was certainly good enough to have won the Triple Crown, and he went on to win a shitload of big races as a 4 year old. 
     
    A couple years later, I was all aboard the Sunday Silence train, during the epic three race battle with Easy Goer, particularly after Easy Goer's fans got all whiny after the first two races.  EG ended up winning the Belmont by a shit ton, but I was cheering hard for Sunday Silence. 
     
    Real Quiet probably came closer to anyone to winning the TC, losing by a nose in the Belmont.  That sucked.  I say "probably" came closer because you have to account for Charismatic who was leading the Belmont when he broke his leg coming down the stretch. 
     
    Funny Cide might have been the best horse to win the first two of the 14 that have done it since Affirmed.  He won the Derby, in the 10th fastest time ever, and then won the Preakness by almost 10 lengths, putting up like the third highest Beyer ever.  Then, of course, the rain and mud came for the Belmont and Santos ran him on the rail, where the mud was the worst, and he came in 3rd.  That race is the one that a lot of people believe is what led to horses that didn't win the Derby, taking the Preakness off, and coming back fresh for the Belmont.  Empire Maker, who Funny Cide dueled with for a year or so, skipped the Preakness and came out fresh for the Belmont and won the race.  Before that, I don't remember that happening a lot, and that's why there were so many great triple crown duels for all three races that we just don't see anymore.  This year, it's kind of cool that Baffert has Pharaoh and Dortmund and is running both in every race, but that seems like it hasn't happened a lot recently, although I could be wrong.  
     
    All I know is the history of the Triple Crown, particularly since Affirmed won it, with 13 horses winning the first two and not able to get that third one, is truly amazing.  I'm just tired of it though, and i want to see a triple crown happen so bad, I can taste it, so here's to Pharaoh, great horse or not. 
     
  49. DanoooME

    DanoooME Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Another missed opportunity (but voluntarily in this case) was Spend A Buck in 1985, who won the Derby, but then bypassed the Preakness and the Belmont because Garden State Park in NJ offered a $2 million bonus for a horse that could win the Cherry Hill Mile, Garden State Stakes, the Kentucky Derby and the Jersey Derby.  Spend A Buck had won the first three, so naturally entered the Jersey Derby instead which was run about halfway between the dates for the Preakness and the Belmont.  At the time the owner of Garden State Park was trying to compete with the Triple Crown, which led those three parks to get together to offer a bigger bonus for winning the Triple Crown.  
     
    Spend A Buck still has the 4th fastest time in Derby history behind Secretariat, Monarchos, and Northern Dancer, two all time greats and an all time fluke.  It would have been interesting to see if he could have pulled it off as well.
     
  50. sittingstill

    sittingstill Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not sure if you're referring to a different stat somehow, but that's not true; off the top of my head Secretariat faced Riva Ridge in the Marlboro, and Seattle Slew and Affirmed battled in '78 in the Marlboro and the Jockey Club Gold Cup. (I loved Affirmed.)
     
    Looking back, I think Spectacular Bid was the most deserving of the horses who missed out on a Triple Crown win (Steve Haskin's 2003 piece is an excellent tribute--as an old person I know you weren't all around to see him). I would add to some of the nominees above, if I might bend the rules a bit, Point Given, who ran fifth as the favorite on a souped-up Churchill Downs track before taking the Preakness and Belmont. (Winner Monarchos ran the second-fastest Derby ever--and three new track records were set in races earlier in the day; I'll always wonder if the track or the strategy may have kept him from the win.)
     

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