Heyman says Lackey/Corey Littrell to Cardinals for Kelly/Craig
- Thread starter MakMan44
- Start date
Even if all Kelly becomes is a #4/5 starter, he could be part of a trade this offseason with a team like Miami. They would have to appreciate the years of control they would have over him and his MLB readiness. Not saying he is a centerpiece to a Stanton trade or anything but he is a solid asset to have around.
With both Cespedes and Craig onboard where are they going to play Mookie next year? Some very puzzling moves here ..
Snodgrass'Muff said:
51.8% career GB%, high octane fastball, good breaking ball.
Put him in the bullpen and he's immediately a high leverage reliever.
I think you have Yahtzee. He's a potentially distracting headache this winter, and BC has other fish to fry.EvilEmpire said:
It's a solid return. Steal if Craig is healthy. Now you have an Ortiz replacement (Napoli) a 1B Craig and a slugger (Cespedes) I can see what Ben is doing. I do think Kelly profiles better as an RP though.The Gray Eagle said:
My Cards-fan friend is freaking out (in a bad way).
He's not happy about it at all.
(EDIT)
I suck at english.
He's not happy about it at all.
(EDIT)
I suck at english.
Trade really hinges on Craig's health, I think. He wasn't healthy during the 2013 World Series, and it's possible that he never fully recovered during the offseason. If he can focus on staying healthy, he could be a monster in 2015 and his contract is really palatable.
Sox added two power hitters to the 2015 lineup today -- something they sorely needed.
Sox added two power hitters to the 2015 lineup today -- something they sorely needed.
If everyone plays to their ceilings, we have quite a lineup for next year.
Of course, if everyone just continues this years play...not so much.
Of course, if everyone just continues this years play...not so much.
I seriously doubt they're sending JBJ back to Pawtucket after trending in the right direction for two months.xjack said:
It's unfair to bring stats like this to an emotional discussion based, in some cases, on gut reactionsJoshv02 said:
Clears Cleaver said:
I... Don't get this one. Lester and Lackey are basically rentals at or above 30. The inbound players are younger non-rentals with some upside (Cespedes contract weirdness acknowledged). These are like reverse-Gorman trades, aren't they?
Not saying there's a superlative talent in the bunch they got back, but this isn't a Reardon-Smith-Brunansky situation or even nearly the infamous Bagwell-Anderson. It's... Pretty good.
I really like the gamble on Craig in the abstract, given how good he's been in the past and how team-friendly his contract will be if he can bounce back. What worries me is that the trade is fundamentally a huge bet on whether or not Craig can be fixed and the team we're betting with has much better information and insight into that question than we do.
I didn't realize the market values of these guys changed dramatically in the last two minutes.Dogman2 said:
Craig was a very productive hitter until his lisfranc, he's been lost at the plate since for nearly a full year now.
The horseshoe fell out of Kelly's ass late last season, he's never managed to find it again. He's gotten by with Dave Duncan smoke and mirrors coaching but at his core doesn't have good enough stuff, control, or versatility in his arsenal to be a worthwhile starter in the AL East.
Meanwhile John Lackey has been a horse for 1.5 seasons and costs league minimum for all next season. The odds that Kelly posts a 6.00 ERA the rest of the way and is off the club by opening day 2015, and that Craig continues to show zero power and toil away as a limited 1B/LF with a sub .700 OPS are both pretty high. The odds John Lackey suddenly turns into a pumpkin after figuring it all back out are not. Cherington painted himself into a corner and got outright SCREWED. It's a fact. This is the worst return for any starting pitcher of note traded this summer. I would rather have gotten just Ramsey (the guy the Indians got for Masterson) than Kelly + Craig. Kelly is worthless and Craig is just as much of a lottery ticket as Ramsey but owed $20M over the next three years while Ramsey is still coming up through the minors with six years of control waiting when he is ready.
It's failure in every sense of the word unless there is a second move to some insane team that actually values Kelly more than a bag of baseballs, because that is all he's going to be worth after his first taste of AL lineups.
Allen Craig has fallen off a cliff this year. He was an All-Star last season but has hit .237/.291/.346 in 97 games this season.
78 OPS+.
The big question is what happened? This looks like a case where the Red Sox trust their scouts/coaches to identify/fix whatever is wrong Craig.
78 OPS+.
The big question is what happened? This looks like a case where the Red Sox trust their scouts/coaches to identify/fix whatever is wrong Craig.
| Year | Age | Tm | Lg | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS+ | TB | GDP | HBP | SH | SF | IBB | Pos | Awards |
| 2010 | 25 | STL | NL | 44 | 124 | 114 | 12 | 28 | 7 | 0 | 4 | 18 | 0 | 1 | 9 | 26 | 0.246 | 0.298 | 0.412 | 0.711 | 92 | 47 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | Sep-54 | |
| 2011 | 26 | STL | NL | 75 | 219 | 200 | 33 | 63 | 15 | 0 | 11 | 40 | 5 | 0 | 15 | 40 | 0.315 | 0.362 | 0.555 | 0.917 | 151 | 111 | 7 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 79/4835 | |
| 2012 | 27 | STL | NL | 119 | 514 | 469 | 76 | 144 | 35 | 0 | 22 | 92 | 2 | 1 | 37 | 89 | 0.307 | 0.354 | 0.522 | 0.876 | 137 | 245 | 15 | 1 | 0 | 7 | 1 | 39/7D | MVP-19 |
| 2013 ★ | 28 | STL | NL | 134 | 563 | 508 | 71 | 160 | 29 | 2 | 13 | 97 | 2 | 0 | 40 | 100 | 0.315 | 0.373 | 0.457 | 0.83 | 130 | 232 | 12 | 10 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 379/D | AS,MVP-18 |
| 2014 | 29 | STL | NL | 97 | 398 | 367 | 34 | 87 | 17 | 1 | 7 | 44 | 1 | 1 | 26 | 77 | 0.237 | 0.291 | 0.346 | 0.638 | 78 | 127 | 11 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 0 | *937 | |
I just want to remind everyone that Craig was the most feared hitter in the Cardinals World Series lineup even though he was injured...
Even Tavares will be lucky to have some of the seasons Craig turned in.....It's a down year for him, let's get excited for this guy at least.
Even Tavares will be lucky to have some of the seasons Craig turned in.....It's a down year for him, let's get excited for this guy at least.
Drek717 said:
John Lackey is a 2-3 win player under control for 1.5 seasons. Allen Craig is a 2-3 win player under control for 4 more seasons at reasonable cost. Joe Kelly has a pretty good chance of getting lit up in the AL and not really mattering too much. I'd probably give this a B/B+ in my book. Unless you're getting truly premium young talent back, which I don't think you would for a guy like Lackey, this is the type of deal you make in a heartbeat. And as I mentioned in the Lester thread, I'd want 2-3 prospects since you still have so much flameout potential, which I don't think most teams would be willing to give up.
I don't like this trade. I would rather go into 2015 with Lackey in my starting rotation. I don't see how Craig fits either.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
The problem is that he's basically never been very good at translating the stuff into outs. His career minor league WHIP is 1.40. In the majors it's 1.38. He has a career BABIP allowed over .300 and a career K/BB under 2. That's not a good combination.
I'm not a fan of this deal either. I liked the idea of Craig when we were talking about Peavy. But we should have gotten more for Lackey, and Kelly just seems borderline fungible.
Yeah I remember reading pre-series write ups, everyone picking the Cards because of Craig coming back and their unstoppable rotation.CaskNFappin said:
The biggest thing I'm bummed about is that we don't have a game today.
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
I'd imagine anywhere but on the mound.
If you had told me two years ago that the Sox would have traded out of Crawford, Beckett, and Lackey's contracts I would have never believed you.
I am quite pleased with the line-up we are building - or the trade chips we are stockpiling.
I still wonder what we will do with our rotation. Excited to see what will happen though.
That being said - I am 48. Last year's Sox squad was my all-time favorite. Sad to see so many (Including most of the rotation) gone.
I still wonder what we will do with our rotation. Excited to see what will happen though.
That being said - I am 48. Last year's Sox squad was my all-time favorite. Sad to see so many (Including most of the rotation) gone.
I don't think I've ever seen a guy who averages nearly 95 MPH, with a ten MPH separation on his change, and a curve that he throws often enough, described as having not enough stuff or sufficient versatility.Drek717 said:
I agree that he isn't a great player - he doesn't miss bats. But, this is way overblown.
Craig is basically Mike Carp until he proves he can rebound from foot surgery
I am not a fan of this deal. At all.
I am not a fan of this deal. At all.
Unless Joe Kelly has a bowling ball sinker like Wang did before his injury, I don't see him having much success as a starter. Those strikeout rates seem pretty low for a guy with a live fastball.
Says the person defiling the Black Flag logo like so many other internet douches three years ago.TheShynessClinic said:
Why not debate the merits of the post? I live in St. Louis, I've watched both guys coming back quite a bit. Craig was a good buy low option, Lackey isn't buying low. Kelly isn't going to survive in the AL.
I like the Cespedes deal. That works in a lot of ways. Making this deal period doesn't, making when they already have Cespedes makes it even worse.
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/494889906653900800
Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 11m
Red Sox are sending around $1.75M to the Cardinals. Final trade: John Lackey and ~$1.75M to St. Louis for Allen Craig and Joe Kelly.
Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 11m
Red Sox are sending around $1.75M to the Cardinals. Final trade: John Lackey and ~$1.75M to St. Louis for Allen Craig and Joe Kelly.
Chuck Z said:
This is true, but Craig is at a position where it's relatively easier to find 2-3 win players and where we already have players, and Lackey plays a position that's much harder to fill -- and where we are currently thin.
I'm not trying to dump on the trade, for sure, but I'm still a bit unclear how Cespedes and Craig both fit in given the current roster.
