RFA awaits. I wouldn't be surprised if he received a cooler RFA reception than Smart. High-level complimentary players struggle to get paid the way he expects... Brads got thisI expect no extension and he will test the market (or get extended after the season).
You nailed it.I get that these guys get to where they are by being supremely confident in themselves, but if Grant is asking for 14/year and the C's are offering 13/year, he's crazy not to take it. He obviously has an idea what his actual value is with what he's asking, so I think it'd be crazy to turn down a guaranteed 52 million over 4 years because you think you are worth 56. Lock in life altering money, and he's still young enough to get another decent contract. I'd get going to RFA for a guy like Ayton(even though he's miserable) because he was in a position to play into a big, almost max contract. But Grant isn't that level of a player, and I don't know how much he can really expand his value with how this team is constructed(besides a Jay injury). He could also regress shooting and is already looking at a slight minutes reduction due to the additions of Brogdon and to a much lesser extent Blake. I'm by no means trying to defend the C's/corporations, but dude, you can get paid right now, take it and, as long as you're smart with it, be set for life
Just wouldn’t be worth the risk if I were him. One year ago today, we had big questions about him. He doesn’t have a good athletic profile to fall back on. Lock it in, Grant.RFA awaits. I wouldn't be surprised if he received a cooler RFA reception than Smart. High-level complimentary players struggle to get paid the way he expects... Brads got this
There are two ways Grant gets paid. 1) Enters RFA following excellent defense performances in the playoffs against elite talent that are fresh in teams minds or 2) scores more and in a greater variety of ways.RFA awaits. I wouldn't be surprised if he received a cooler RFA reception than Smart. High-level complimentary players struggle to get paid the way he expects... Brads got this
If #2 happens then he's going to lose playing time, his role is to play D and hit the corner 3. There should always be at least one of the 3 guards and one of the Jays on the floor at all times, so at max he's the 3rd option(unless injury) and should rarely ever have the ball in his hands. If he starts holding the ball and trying to do whatever Grant's version of "hero ball" looks like(I'm guessing lumbering and not very vertical) he'll lose significant minutesThere are two ways Grant gets paid. 1) Enters RFA following excellent defense performances in the playoffs against elite talent that are fresh in teams minds or 2) scores more and in a greater variety of ways.
Number 2 poses some risk for the Celtics. A Grant focused on getting his, is not what is best for the team. Not suggesting that by itself is a reason for Brad to pay above what he thinks the market will bear, but it is something to keep an eye on.
If he starts acting up, he may not just get benched. He could get traded. Brad won’t mess around with a team this close to a title. Certainly hope it doesn’t come to that but always a risk when a player is focused on his contract situation.If #2 happens then he's going to lose playing time, his role is to play D and hit the corner 3. There should always be at least one of the 3 guards and one of the Jays on the floor at all times, so at max he's the 3rd option(unless injury) and should rarely ever have the ball in his hands. If he starts holding the ball and trying to do whatever Grant's version of "hero ball" looks like(I'm guessing lumbering and not very vertical) he'll lose significant minutes
Yup, 100% correctIf he starts acting up, he may not just get benched. He could get traded. Brad won’t mess around with a team this close to a title. Certainly hope it doesn’t come to that but always a risk when a player is focused on his contract situation.
I'm perfectly happy going to RFA with a guy like Grant.There are two ways Grant gets paid. 1) Enters RFA following excellent defense performances in the playoffs against elite talent that are fresh in teams minds or 2) scores more and in a greater variety of ways.
Number 2 poses some risk for the Celtics. A Grant focused on getting his, is not what is best for the team. Not suggesting that by itself is a reason for Brad to pay above what he thinks the market will bear, but it is something to keep an eye on.
I would assume, just based on logic, that either the players, the owners, or more likely both view it as beneficial to avoid the distraction of possible in season negotiations.I'm not a CBA wonk - is there any good reasoning for preventing the teams and players from negotiating extensions during the season?
“It’s one of those things that, you never want to take a bad deal for no one around you,” Williams said. “The role that I play as VP of the player’s association, you understand where the league is going in the future and where the league is currently at. For me, it wasn’t a matter of life-changing money, it was a matter of value, not only for this year, but for years to come. I think that from both sides, we all negotiated from that point, and there was no ill will. There were no frustrations.”Maybe he's taking his NBAPA job too seriously and wants to get every last $$$?
Maybe he ends up in the same place or even a bit better, but this has big downside risk. I hope that he doesn't end up in a Nerlens Schroder situation and worry a bit that the PA job is coloring his decision. C'est la vie. It's not the worst thing in the world if he has a shooting star year and gets a huge, unmatchable offer somewhere else. That wouldn't really be bad at all. Ima start cheering for that outcome actually. Getting a massive value year from a bench rotation player is a gift.“It’s one of those things that, you never want to take a bad deal for no one around you,” Williams said. “The role that I play as VP of the player’s association, you understand where the league is going in the future and where the league is currently at. For me, it wasn’t a matter of life-changing money, it was a matter of value, not only for this year, but for years to come. I think that from both sides, we all negotiated from that point, and there was no ill will. There were no frustrations.”
“You look at the guys who didn’t take extensions, they’re pretty much in the same position,” And for me, that’s huge, that’s valuable, because I are about every single player in this league,” Williams said. “I care about every single player in each organization that has to deal with free agency, that has to deal with the issues that necessarily we have within in this league. So we’re on the right path. We’re on the right steps. So we just have to go out there and do what we do.”
https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/10/18/23410978/grant-williams-reacts-to-not-agreeing-to-an-extension-with-celtics-boston-nba-contract-deal-76ers
I'm sure Kyrie is doing the same
Agreed, play for pay doesn't hurt the C's one bit. Still have matching (+S&T) rightsMaybe he ends up in the same place or even a bit better, but this has big downside risk. I hope that he doesn't end up in a Nerlens Schroder situation and worry a bit that the PA job is coloring his decision. C'est la vie. It's not the worst thing in the world if he has a shooting star year and gets a huge, unmatchable offer somewhere else. That wouldn't really be bad at all. Ima start cheering for that outcome actually. Getting a massive value year from a bench rotation player is a gift.
Agreed completely. I'm less worried about him in a walk year than just about anyone. And in the odd event that he became an issue, he's a value guy to move. Doubt it comes to that. If I had to guess, we re-sign him next offseason at about what we'd expect and half the forum will cry overpay a la Bradley, Crowder, and Smart.Agreed, play for pay doesn't hurt the C's one bit. Still have matching (+S&T) rights
His reaction is much better than "Brad/Boston doesn't respect me or what I bring to this team. I'm better than a lot of those players in my draft class that got paid!"
Very much so. This is the statement of a professional. Plus, I like the whole playher's association role; good, important work, basketball focused, high character building—you can do a lot worse in a teammate than having a guy who's thinking about player solidarity all the time—all that jazz. I wish a deal had gotten done, but in its absence, this is what I want to hear.Agreed, play for pay doesn't hurt the C's one bit. Still have matching (+S&T) rights
His reaction is much better than "Brad/Boston doesn't respect me or what I bring to this team. I'm better than a lot of those players in my draft class that got paid!"
Maybe he is inspired by Judge -- don't be afraid to bet on your improvement.Grant was damn good tonite.
I agree that he should have taken the money. BUT Grant should be confident that he's a 40% 3pt shooterTaking last year‘s three point shooting as a baseline, if Grant misses one more three-pointer every month of the season, he’s now at 37% three-point shooter who is a low-volume scorer who doesn’t really do much else on offense . I get why he wanted to bet on himself, but barely better than average three point shooters who only score a point every five minutes and and don’t do anything else probably aren’t commanding more money than the reputed $11-12 million per that might have been out there for Grant. I can see why a defensive oriented player like Matisse Thybulle would gamble on shooting better this year, since he shot so poorly last year from three, but Grant had a really good long distance shooting year last season.
I like the way he had been taking the ball to the basket this preseason and if he can bump up to a 10 point per game score and still hit the three ball at 40%, he’s probably going to get another two or three million a year from what was offered already
I'm not sure why Mazzulla went with the weird bench unit to start the 4Q (GW, Blake, Hauser, White, and Brogdan, IIRC) but GW's pump fake and then 3P swish as the shot clock was winding down was a key bucket at that moment. Didn't know he had that in him.Grant was damn good tonite.
It was a bit earlier than that. I’ll try and find the play.Pretty sure he wanted Joe to challenge.
Earlier than the challenge convo? Wasn't that Q1?It was a bit earlier than that. I’ll try and find the play.
Different challenge conversation, then: the first one that I was thinking of was when Grant fouled Garland on a 3 with 2:30 left in the 1st.The challenge conversation was with 10 seconds to go in the 4th.
I think it should be noted that there is a good chance the Cs win the game had Mazzulla listened to Grant. Sadly, it seems like Joe has adopted Udoka's worst trait as a coach: namely, saving all his challenges to the end, and then not even using them. There were two clear miscalls early on and one was that 3 pointer (and Garland hit all 3 shots). Not sure why NBA coaches can't understand that you have to take those points when their available..Different challenge conversation, then: the first one that I was thinking of was when Grant fouled Garland on a 3 with 2:30 left in the 1st.
I tuned in pretty late. But as the announcers pointed out, challenging the 4th Q foul would have been counterproductive, as "winning" the challenge would mean side-out Cleveland (and more time off the clock before the next foul), rather than foul shots. More than that, though, just as we talk body language with refs --- Smart is always talking to them, but not nearly as frequently gesturing at them -- Grant's obvious displeasure with the Coach not challenging the late foul was far too animated for me.I think it should be noted that there is a good chance the Cs win the game had Mazzulla listened to Grant. Sadly, it seems like Joe has adopted Udoka's worst trait as a coach: namely, saving all his challenges to the end, and then not even using them. There were two clear miscalls early on and one was that 3 pointer (and Garland hit all 3 shots). Not sure why NBA coaches can't understand that you have to take those points when their available..
Right. Grant's earlier challenge request would have been more impactful, taking 3 points off the board.I tuned in pretty late. But as the announcers pointed out, challenging the 4th Q foul would have been counterproductive, as "winning" the challenge would mean side-out Cleveland (and more time off the clock before the next foul), rather than foul shots. More than that, though, just as we talk body language with refs --- Smart is always talking to them, but not nearly as frequently gesturing at them -- Grant's obvious displeasure with the Coach not challenging the late foul was far too animated for me.
What got me was Grant’s eye roll as he walked away. If I’m Mazzulla and I see video of that, I’m calling him into my office and telling the kid to cut the shit. But then, there’s no way I’d ever last as a coach — I’d call everyone on their shit, including the refs, and get fired in record time.I tuned in pretty late. But as the announcers pointed out, challenging the 4th Q foul would have been counterproductive, as "winning" the challenge would mean side-out Cleveland (and more time off the clock before the next foul), rather than foul shots. More than that, though, just as we talk body language with refs --- Smart is always talking to them, but not nearly as frequently gesturing at them -- Grant's obvious displeasure with the Coach not challenging the late foul was far too animated for me.
I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that Hereford retires after this year, especially if they manage to hoist #18. Al's $26 this year would not be far off GW's $15-18 even with tax implications. This iteration with Al and Grant (with Kornet and others) manning the big(s) role could become TL and Grant next year easily enough.I don't think Brad will need to figure anything out, he'll just need support from ownership to match an rfa offer. It'll be interesting because the Celtics won't have any real avenue to replace him with a comparable player so it'll come down to paying what it takes to keep him (and the tax associated with that) or deciding that they think they can still win with that much less talent on the roster.
I agree. I've thought of that before (that Grant is the long term Al replacement). If the Celtics are committed to winning, I think they'll match any rfa offer, even if they consider it a slight overpay. It's not like he's going to get a max offer or anything close.I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that Hereford retires after this year, especially if they manage to hoist #18. Al's $26 this year would not be far off GW's $15-18 even with tax implications. This iteration with Al and Grant (with Kornet and others) manning the big(s) role could become TL and Grant next year easily enough.
Al does not look like a player who is done. I mean, just look at him and then look at Blake. I would hope the Celtics would be able to extend Al on a team friendly deal.I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that Hereford retires after this year, especially if they manage to hoist #18. Al's $26 this year would not be far off GW's $15-18 even with tax implications. This iteration with Al and Grant (with Kornet and others) manning the big(s) role could become TL and Grant next year easily enough.
I was surprised they didn't find a way to an extension in the offseason, and I don't fully know what to make of that. My concern level about Grant going elsewhere was super low---his profile almost never gets paid, his profile has pluses and minuses (some advanced stats have been blah, for example), and Celts do need him role-wise and lack of replacement options. It has risen slightly given the lack of an extension - though, still isn't that high....seems like both will choose each other in the end. I don't think impossible he wants to bet on himself, and also could imagine his player's association role impacting his choices.I agree. I've thought of that before (that Grant is the long term Al replacement). If the Celtics are committed to winning, I think they'll match any rfa offer, even if they consider it a slight overpay. It's not like he's going to get a max offer or anything close.
If he doesn't get (or doesn't accept) an rfa offer, that's when we'll really need Brad to come through, because I guess I could see Grant gambling on himself again and becoming an ufa the year after. He seems very confident in himself.
I don't think they'll ever replace Al's role tbh: Tatum will become a quick 4 more and more over time (already is), and they'll find true bigs to play in 1-big lineups.Grant's a solid player but thinking of him as Al's replacement is just foolish. His lack of length will always keep his ceiling well below that of Al. Need to go outside to fill that role, but hopefully that's more than a year off.
Nobody is saying Grant is better than or plays exactly "like" Al Horford. BUT a future line-up of TL/Grant/JAYs/Marcus was beastly last season (2nd most used lineup but most efficient) and would probably be even better in future seasons. I'm not sure when Horford's expiry date is, but hopefully not for a few more seasons. This also doesn't prevent Brad from going out and adding a 4 or 5 (these pages are littered with Poeltl or Vanderbilt requests) this season.Grant's a solid player but thinking of him as Al's replacement is just foolish. His lack of length will always keep his ceiling well below that of Al. Need to go outside to fill that role, but hopefully that's more than a year off.