https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/478981051701002241Garin Cecchini is up, and Grady Sizemore has been designated for assignment
https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/478981051701002241Garin Cecchini is up, and Grady Sizemore has been designated for assignment
soxhop411 said:I feel there are more moves coming. We now have an open spot on the 40 man.
A trade? I doubt it's Mookie as they would not add him until they call him up.Corsi said:
Andres Torres?
edit: looks like he hasn't even played in Lowell yet. What's up with that?
I was rooting for him too, remembering how good he was in Cleveland. Watching him play this year was painful but he always looked to be playing all out, not a guy who was protecting himself.uncannymanny said:This is probably it's own valid topic.
Sad, I was really pulling for him (from a value proposition for the Sox and because he seems like a good dude who was really fun to watch), but the man just has no knees.
Brian MacPherson @brianmacp 3m
Sizemore got to 60 days but just missed out on his first plate-appearance bonus (225 PAs), so he wound up costing the Red Sox $1.25 million.
I don't think this is the case at all. Was he given too long of a leash? Yes. Was it a detriment to the team? No. It wasn't only Sizemore who has been unproductive. Remember Grady beat out JBJ as the opening day CF after ST. It looked like a pretty smart move then. Who else was going to take his place for the amount of money they had invested?Philip Jeff Frye said:Our long national nightmare is over!
Seriously, what a bad bet this was. The FO really outsmarted themselves on this one. Obviously, the team's problems go deeper than just Sizemore, but the cascade of decisions that resulted from the bet on him have really hurt this team.
Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo 11s
Sizemore was 20 PAs away from a $250K bonus, and 12 days on active roster away from $250K bonus. #RedSox
I think the issue is a general incoherence with regard to the CF position in the offseason. If JBJ was going to be the opening day CF, a hot spring from Sizemore shouldn't have changed that. If there was going to be an open competition, they should have brought in a better option than Sizemore. This is two springs in a row they've let a big March performance dictate their starting CF, and the result has been sub-replacement-level performance both times.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:I don't think this is the case at all. Was he given too long of a leash? Yes. Was it a detriment to the team? No. It wasn't only Sizemore who has been unproductive. Remember Grady beat out JBJ as the opening day CF after ST. It looked like a pretty smart move then. Who else was going to take his place for the amount of money they had invested?
Don't most teams let the play on the field dictate what they do personnel wise?Super Nomario said:I think the issue is a general incoherence with regard to the CF position in the offseason. If JBJ was going to be the opening day CF, a hot spring from Sizemore shouldn't have changed that. If there was going to be an open competition, they should have brought in a better option than Sizemore. This is two springs in a row they've let a big March performance dictate their starting CF, and the result has been sub-replacement-level performance both times.
Super Nomario said:I think the issue is a general incoherence with regard to the CF position in the offseason. If JBJ was going to be the opening day CF, a hot spring from Sizemore shouldn't have changed that. If there was going to be an open competition, they should have brought in a better option than Sizemore. This is two springs in a row they've let a big March performance dictate their starting CF, and the result has been sub-replacement-level performance both times.
Super Nomario said:I think the issue is a general incoherence with regard to the CF position in the offseason. If JBJ was going to be the opening day CF, a hot spring from Sizemore shouldn't have changed that. If there was going to be an open competition, they should have brought in a better option than Sizemore. This is two springs in a row they've let a big March performance dictate their starting CF, and the result has been sub-replacement-level performance both times.
It was worth a flier, but unfortunately injuries to Victorino (and Carp) and the struggles of Nava and Bradley kept him around longer than his usefulness.
Ferm Sheller said:No way they promote Betts after only two weeks in AAA, right?
Super Nomario said:I think the issue is a general incoherence with regard to the CF position in the offseason. If JBJ was going to be the opening day CF, a hot spring from Sizemore shouldn't have changed that. If there was going to be an open competition, they should have brought in a better option than Sizemore. This is two springs in a row they've let a big March performance dictate their starting CF, and the result has been sub-replacement-level performance both times.
payne8567 said:
Can he be worse than our 30/30 OPS from the CF position? Maybe Holt is an anomaly but he is green to the position and picked it up quickly. If Brock Holt can play all 3 outfield spots (including Fenway RF) without ever doing so before in pro ball, I fell there can be a decent semblance of confidence of a player who has at least sampled the position before the Majors with nothing but praise from his manager. I'm not trying to assert that Mookie is totally prepared to man CF (defensively) right now, though I feel if JBJ manned RF and Mookie in CF...we'd have close to the range of Vic and Ells
It was a modest bet that didn't pay-off. But the risk was low, and it was assumed he'd be the 4th OF, not an every day guy, as the re-injury risk was always there. I think Farrell was a big backer dating back to Cleveland, but it didn't work. And the OF non-production shouldn't be hung on Sizemore. Vic's been a non-factor, Nava was brutal, Carp hurt, Gomes is Gomes, and JBJ an all-glove rookie. We can only hope that Vic gets healthy and Nava stays hot, as Rice, Lynn, and Dewey ain't walking through the clubhouse doors.Philip Jeff Frye said:Our long national nightmare is over!
Seriously, what a bad bet this was. The FO really outsmarted themselves on this one. Obviously, the team's problems go deeper than just Sizemore, but the cascade of decisions that resulted from the bet on him have really hurt this team.
Ferm Sheller said:
Contribution to the 2014 team is not the issue; the issue is not destroying Betts' confidence by rushing him.
BosRedSox5 said:
I don't really understand this? Do professional athletes really have this attitude? If someone comes up too early and they get smashed are they likely to go "Oh man, I thought i was good, but I guess I actually suck. I should go back home and open an insurance office."?
If the Sox brass thought Betts could contribute to the major league roster they would bring him up and if they turned out to be wrong and he struggled I'm sure it wouldn't fracture his psyche.
Ferm Sheller said:
Contribution to the 2014 team is not the issue; the issue is not destroying Betts' confidence by rushing him.
Of course you're right and it was LF, not CF in 2013.Papelbon's Poutine said:
Not to nitpick, but assuming you are referring to JBJ last spring, he was put into LF not CF last year. And presumably if Ortiz had not been slow to get healthy, we may not have seen him at all. I do agree they allowed his hot spring to affect their thought process and probably put him the bigs too soon though.
Play on the field, fine, but not ~50 spring training ABs against uncertain competition.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:Don't most teams let the play on the field dictate what they do personnel wise?
We should judge the decision, not the result though. There was a real chance Victorino (who missed 40 games last year) would have periods of injury again. There was a real chance JBJ wasn't ready for the majors. There was a real chance Nava (who had a 97 OPS+ going into last year) would turn back into a pumpkin. That all these went disastrously wrong means in practical terms having a fifth real OF option wouldn't have mattered a ton, but that doesn't make the decision not to have one any smarter.Rudy Pemberton said:It's mid June, and while Sizemore sucked (612 OPS); so have JBJ (591) and Victorino (627). As well as Nava (597), and Carp (603). Think about it; there are three OF who have accumulated a total of 438 plate appearances, and each put up a worse OPS than Grady. Awful. While it would have been nice to bring in someone better than Sizemore (Chris Young was real popular, he has a 604 OPS), who expected that every OF on the team would be terrible?
Ferm Sheller said:
I don't know, but I do know that they're not in the habit of promoting guys who've only had a cup of coffee in AAA. Maybe that's the reason, or at least part of it, and maybe not.
Super Nomario said:Of course you're right and it was LF, not CF in 2013.
Play on the field, fine, but not ~50 spring training ABs against uncertain competition.
We should judge the decision, not the result though. There was a real chance Victorino (who missed 40 games last year) would have periods of injury again. There was a real chance JBJ wasn't ready for the majors. There was a real chance Nava (who had a 97 OPS+ going into last year) would turn back into a pumpkin. That all these went disastrously wrong means in practical terms having a fifth real OF option wouldn't have mattered a ton, but that doesn't make the decision not to have one any smarter.
I would think that the FO would take it into consideration ... except that they did the same thing in 2013, overreacting to JBJ's spring. Obviously there are a lot of things the FO does very well, but properly evaluating SSS performance doesn't seem to be one of them.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
You have to think the FO and the management team take that into consideration. The fact is that coming out of ST Sizemore looked like he was going to be a productive player if he stayed healthy. It's extremely disappointing that he stayed healthy and didn't produce.
JimD said:As much as some folks around here wish it to be true, Rajai Davis wasn't walking through that door. The team was not going to sign a veteran who would want a multiyear contract and expect regular playing time.
How do you know this? So 2 years for $10MM is too much? So he would have cost $5MM this season as opposed to the $1.25MM we just wasted on 2 months of Sizemore. Rajai would have got plenty of time between RF and CF, so playing time is a non starter. The front office whiffed here, plain and simple.JimD said:
The 'better option' still might have sucked.
As much as some folks around here wish it to be true, Rajai Davis wasn't walking through that door. The team was not going to sign a veteran who would want a multiyear contract and expect regular playing time.
Super Nomario said:I would think that the FO would take it into consideration ... except that they did the same thing in 2013, overreacting to JBJ's spring. Obviously there are a lot of things the FO does very well, but properly evaluating SSS performance doesn't seem to be one of them.
All of this. Wish him the best. Hopefully he'll catch on somewhere, he won't be at Pawtucket and unlikely a trade piece within the next 10 days.BosRedSox5 said:I get no pleasure out of this. I really wanted it to work out with Sizemore. He seems like a great guy who got dealt a terrible hand. Making a move was the right thing to do because he's just not needed on this club, but I hope he's able to have some kind of resurgence. It's a shame what became of his once promising career.
Rudy Pemberton said:Did they necessarily overreact to JBJ's spring, though? I mean, he's been just as bad this year, if not worse. I understand thinking that they screwed up and he wasn't ready last year, but is he ready now?
Who should they have signed instead of Sizemore? Young cost a lot and has been terrible; Davis was looking for playing time and a 2-year deal. There weren't a lot of viable options out there.
Rudy Pemberton said:Why would Davis have chosen the Sox as a 5th OF (Victorino wasn't put on the DL to miss the opener until the last minute) over the role he got with the Tigers? Clearly, he would have gotten playing time, but that couldn't have been anticipated.
nattysez said:
Because he's from NE? Because the Sox could have outbid the Tigers for his services?
benhogan said:How do you know this? So 2 years for $10MM is too much? So he would have cost $5MM this season as opposed to the $1.25MM we just wasted on 2 months of Sizemore. Rajai would have got plenty of time between RF and CF, so playing time is a non starter. The front office whiffed here, plain and simple.
The bigger issue I have with the 'Sizemore experiment' was when they realized he was incapable of playing CF defensively, their answer was to demote Nava after 17 games and continue with Sizemore. A lot of people on this board talk about messing with players 'confidence', well the lack of confidence exhibited by Farrell in Nava has been astonishing after the way he produced last season.
Rajai could have been your starting CF this season instead of gambling on Grady Sizemore. And this isn't 'hindsight 20/20 crap' either this was a concern of mine and many others here.Rudy Pemberton said:Why would Davis have chosen the Sox as a 5th OF (Victorino wasn't put on the DL to miss the opener until the last minute) over the role he got with the Tigers? Clearly, he would have gotten playing time, but that couldn't have been anticipated.
Agree, go with kids/in-house options. I would add that they could make a trade for another player in June/July of 2014 to fill holes where this strategy hasn't worked out.Drek717 said:
Would you rather take a risk of slipping back to a ~88-91 win team in 2014 or give Salty a 4 year deal? Ellsbury a Crawford sized deal? Napoli 3 years with no hip protection clause? I'd rather engender more risk with young players in 2014 than buy the long term risk at market rates for those veterans. If the risks all blow up in our face in 2014 the money will be there to fix them for 2015. If the risks of giving long term deals to veteran players blow up then you're stuck with the player and lack the capital to buy a better option.
small sample size...17 games please...look at last season and the fact that Sizemore was unproductive or not playing for the last 5 seasons. Look the Front Office whiffed here, and today they finally admitted it...joe dokes said:
Nava had options. When he got sent down he was hitting 149 and looked like he had never played baseball before. He admitted that he used the time at AAA to make some adjustments. Sizemore's OPS was as high as 698 in mid-may, the end of a two-week stretch where he looked to be putting some solid play together. It didn;t last. Flowers for Algernon. Sizemore was out-playing Nava by a lot. And if nava keep it up, he will eventually get his OPS higher than Sizemore's this season. But he's not there yet.
I like Nava. I do. But he sucked and had options; Sizemore sucked a bit less and didn't.
This is ridiculous. Faulting Farrell now? The Gomes, Nava platoon just won them a championship. They had 6 OF on the roster if you count Carp.nattysez said:This is the "what would we do with Willie McGee" argument, and it's meritless. They had injured Shane Vic, unknown JBJ and the Nava/Gomes tandem. If you don't think Farrell is capable of ensuring that Rajai Davis can get playing time within that group of OF, then you should fire him. At the very least, Davis could have platooned with JBJ and served as a back-up to Shane Vic. The failure to sign a guy like Davis resulted in Nava and Gomes playing too much and left them with no real options to help out JBJ in CF. Real "deep depth" requires a manager who can give everyone enough PT.
Nava had an awful start to the year. He was the only guy with an option. The Farrell has it out for Nava conspiracy theory has reached absurd levels.benhogan said:How do you know this? So 2 years for $10MM is too much? So he would have cost $5MM this season as opposed to the $1.25MM we just wasted on 2 months of Sizemore. Rajai would have got plenty of time between RF and CF, so playing time is a non starter. The front office whiffed here, plain and simple.
The bigger issue I have with the 'Sizemore experiment' was when they realized he was incapable of playing CF defensively, their answer was to demote Nava after 17 games and continue with Sizemore. A lot of people on this board talk about messing with players 'confidence', well the lack of confidence exhibited by Farrell in Nava has been astonishing after the way he produced last season.