Cherington has been in the Red Sox org since before Theo even came on board, but why let a simple thing like facts get in the way of good rhetoric?RedOctober3829 said:
Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time
- Thread starter HomeBrew1901
- Start date
Cherington also was Co-GM for the Beckett-Lowell trade, which was the type of "Go for it!" move that Felger supposedly loves.
Didn't hear this, but it popped up on my twitter feed this morning and I found it amusing, to say the least.
Jack Edwards @RealJackEdwards
@985TheSportsHub @FelgerAndMazz owes NESN an apology. Here's why. bit.ly/1DwHJRy
Good luck with that, Jack.
Jack Edwards @RealJackEdwards
@985TheSportsHub @FelgerAndMazz owes NESN an apology. Here's why. bit.ly/1DwHJRy
Good luck with that, Jack.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
Is he really going to make a stand on the difference between "one of the better shots" and "one of the best shots"? I get that Jack didn't say it (Brick did), but of all the shit they've thrown against the wall, this is where he makes his stand?
Jack is definitely splitting hairs, but he's also correct. Felger and Mazz use the kind of logic that Jack is employing here all the time, so Jack isn't out of bounds asking for them to be consistent.
It's taken way too long, but I am mostly out on F&M. They are perfecting the art of taking the joy out of everything.
It's taken way too long, but I am mostly out on F&M. They are perfecting the art of taking the joy out of everything.
SidelineCameras said:
That should be their slogan: Felger & Mazz: Perfecting the art of taking the joy out of everything
SidelineCameras said:
This is really the only tool we have. We can bitch about them, but as others have said, that just means we've listened to the show. The best thing we can do is simply not turn the dial to 98.5.
My big thing for me about this show is...I feel like they're trying to convince me to dislike my favorite teams. And I'm not down with that. I like the Red Sox. I like the Pats/Celtics/Bruins. That's just not how I roll as a Boston sports fan. I feel like Felger is this Wisconsin carpetbagger trying to spread hate.
Let's just not listen. Maybe the Nielson ratings will eventually tell them something. I don't know.
I'll be able to watch the show this afternoon, and it will be fun to see their reaction to the Porcello contract.
"They gave Ace money to a #3, but, a year ago, they offered #3 money to an Ace!"
And, of course, if Porcello pitches well the next 5 years, in 2019, Mazz will counter with, "The Red Sox pulled that one of their ass!"
In fact, the most significant discussion, should be what's been expressed in the Porcello thread -- Paying for projected performance instead of rewarding past performance. How reliable can a team expect it's projections to be? And what is an acceptable hit/miss percentage? One thing we do know is that big money, long-term contracts to 30+ "Aces" almost always results in an overpay, so the Red Sox should be commended for taking a different approach.
But the bias amongst the "casual" fans (that make up most of the audience for sports-talk radio) is always going to be paying for the big name as well as to what that pitcher will do in year 1 of the deal. The Sox might have been able to sign David Price for $182 mil/7years for his 29-35 years, and as Mazz would point out they'd have one of the best pitchers in baseball for just $5 million more per year than what they just paid Porcello. Of course, that totally distorts the argument, which is what Felger and Mazz are so good at.
"They gave Ace money to a #3, but, a year ago, they offered #3 money to an Ace!"
And, of course, if Porcello pitches well the next 5 years, in 2019, Mazz will counter with, "The Red Sox pulled that one of their ass!"
In fact, the most significant discussion, should be what's been expressed in the Porcello thread -- Paying for projected performance instead of rewarding past performance. How reliable can a team expect it's projections to be? And what is an acceptable hit/miss percentage? One thing we do know is that big money, long-term contracts to 30+ "Aces" almost always results in an overpay, so the Red Sox should be commended for taking a different approach.
But the bias amongst the "casual" fans (that make up most of the audience for sports-talk radio) is always going to be paying for the big name as well as to what that pitcher will do in year 1 of the deal. The Sox might have been able to sign David Price for $182 mil/7years for his 29-35 years, and as Mazz would point out they'd have one of the best pitchers in baseball for just $5 million more per year than what they just paid Porcello. Of course, that totally distorts the argument, which is what Felger and Mazz are so good at.
soxfan121 said:
Yeah, I know. Not getting my hopes up. But a man can dream...
The thing about Felger is, when he's on your side of an issue, he can be really fun. He's obviously intelligent and well-spoken, and is really good at constructing arguments. He must have been a pain in the ass in debate class. I just wish he would use his powers for good instead of evil.
But you're right. They're not going anywhere anytime soon.
I stopped listening to them long ago but this is a perfect thread title.Nite Vizhun UV said:
Erik Hanson's Hook said:
I don't like Felger and Mazz but I disagree. They are not homers but overall I think that's good. I just disagree with their criticisms. The Red Sox were right to avoid getting in the bidding war for Lester. And they were right to pay short money on a young player like Porcello.
Somewhat ironically, Felger and Mazz are also ripping the Bruins for spending too much resigning their guys.
The real problem with Felger and Mazz is that they are ad hoc complainers.
soxhop411 said:
I didn't catch as much of today's show as I hoped, but, from what I watched, they weren't as bad as I expected (hoped). Mazz stated that Porcello clearly wasn't worth the money, but suggested that the Sox felt he would be better than his past results. Then Felger and Mazz went down the top 15 deals given to starting pitchers, and Mazz rated most of them as good deals "at the time," (even though most of those deals were either failures, or still on-going, where the "bad" years have yet to arrive when a pitcher will be in his age-decline.) Porcello was the 15th most expensive deal, but no distinction was made that his deal covers his prime, while the other deals extend in to a pitcher's mid-30s. Nor did they account for the fact that Porcello's deal does not begin until 2016, so by the time it takes effect there may be 5 bigger deals for pitchers made in the next off-season.
Overall, they were lazy, and a little sloppy in their analysis, but they didn't do any outrageous trolling -- at least in the segment I watched.
FWIW, Mazz did mention that he might have a block and, in his mind, be a few years behind the times because he associates $20 million with elite level pay. He says he recognizes that it's likely not so any longer but he still reacts that way.
I've been a Felger apologist at times, I know very little about Porcello, but during the 5pm hour I had to turn it off because I thought Felger and Mazz were pretty bad about the signing even though as Felger like to say "It's a tonality thing".WenZink said:
I can see some of their points, but the way they came off about it just sucked the life out of the show.
On the flip side they were very good yesterday talking about the Krafts' not allowing the Patriots to become a horrible team that can't compete over a long span of time.
If I'm going to kill F&M, I need to praise them as well. Felger is not killing them today but thanking them for the great run. No irrational blaming, but a knowledge that it's over and time to move on.
at 3 I am switching to Blue Jays vs Orioles...thank the free preview of MLB Extra Innings on cable
Red Sox game...maybe call into Planet Mikey after that...and then...John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Mazz is so good on the Baseball Reporters that he retroactively pisses me off for the BS he spews from 2-6.
You and I have had this conversation here in the past and I agree when it's his own show he gives a shit.John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
There is something to Felger wearing people down where his co hosts just stop trying either out laziness because Felger does all the prep work and doesn't allow other voices or they get tired of dealing with his arguments.
Oh God. They spent some time on the Masters/Speith yesterday and it was brutal to the point of it being cringe-worthy. Felger, desperate for a "hot take" contended that Speith was going to be a flash in the pan, citing David Duval, Lucas Glover, Martin Kaymer, and Zach Johnson (the latter two actually being really good). Just painful.
MillarTime said:
Ah, who gives a shit, it's just golf. The only time anyone on sportsradio talks about golf is the day after the Masters, or if Tiger does something. Felger throwing hot sports takez about the PGA isn't anything to get worked up about.
maybe attacking Augusta would've been a better hot sportz takeJohn Marzano Olympic Hero said:
tuned in for a segment just now to hear more Ballghazi talk
I still hate F&M and the bit is not even theirs, but I cannot get enough of Keefe imitating Suzyn Waldman. That's about the only answer I can muster to the thread title's question today.
The Keefe Yankees broadcasts are fabtastic.
Felger started the show saying they were gojng I do some deflate gate talk since rumors were the report would be out this week.
Speaking of Keefe I got a good laugh out of this.
@Keefe21: #KeeferMadness Poet Laureate Edition. #VORP http://t.co/Vwbq0nY5Y0
Also
@Keefe21: "He (allegedly) wanted to trade Betts and Swihart and now only faces lefties, your RF, SHANE VICTORINO." #StraightTalkSoxIntro
@Keefe21: "He forced us to watch a 7 hour game thanks to his blown save on Friday, welcome back, EDWARD MUJICA." #StraightTalkSoxIntro
Felger started the show saying they were gojng I do some deflate gate talk since rumors were the report would be out this week.
Speaking of Keefe I got a good laugh out of this.
@Keefe21: #KeeferMadness Poet Laureate Edition. #VORP http://t.co/Vwbq0nY5Y0
Also
@Keefe21: "He (allegedly) wanted to trade Betts and Swihart and now only faces lefties, your RF, SHANE VICTORINO." #StraightTalkSoxIntro
@Keefe21: "He forced us to watch a 7 hour game thanks to his blown save on Friday, welcome back, EDWARD MUJICA." #StraightTalkSoxIntro
Chad Finn @GlobeChadFinn 1m1 minute ago
Afternoons: @FelgerAndMazz first, 15.9 (!), @DaleHolleyWEEI second, 8.4.
Afternoons: @FelgerAndMazz first, 15.9 (!), @DaleHolleyWEEI second, 8.4.
I actually felt they were a lot more forgiving than the twittersphere -- and light years more forgiving than Beetle and Zo.
The point was that if Hernandez was short on funds, he perhaps wasn't able to afford the best possible defense; for instance, a DNA expert who might have helped their cause.
They never said or implied the lawyers tanked, at least when i was listening.
They never said or implied the lawyers tanked, at least when i was listening.
Wasn't listening, did F&M actually say that the attorneys didn't try their hardest, or did they say "you get what you pay for" and YOU decided that F&M were saying they didn't try their hardest.NDame616 said:
I listend to a portion and Mazz specifically referenced expert witnesses with the "you get what you pay for" argument. His argument was that the defense lacked experts because they either a.) couldn't find them to corroborate their theories or b.) couldn't afford them
Somebody asked Chad the same thing in the comments section of that tweet. Chad says that Glen told him that they got 18's a few times.the1andonly3003 said:
If the game gets rained out Felger gave a preview of what narrative he'll be pushing. Would I have liked Ortiz in the game? Yes. Was his and the Ump's reaction completely predictable given the first inning events? Yes. Good job on Merloni for arguing essentially there can be some gray area in the world.
http://www.csnne.com/blog/red-sox-talk/felger-merloni-argue-over-ortiz-s-ejection
http://www.csnne.com/blog/red-sox-talk/felger-merloni-argue-over-ortiz-s-ejection
Mike, with Bill if its not a clubhouse cancer like Ochocinco, Haynesworth, or Adalius, it's an ACTUAL cancer like Cannon and Solder. Unreal.
— You're Right, Mike! (@YoureRightMike) April 21, 2015
— You're Right, Mike! (@YoureRightMike) April 21, 2015
That Twitter account made my day.
For some reason it won't come up on my PC but the "alright i'm going to bed, i'll make up my opinion on the box score anyways" was my favorite.
For some reason it won't come up on my PC but the "alright i'm going to bed, i'll make up my opinion on the box score anyways" was my favorite.