I have never heard of a kangaroo court reversing its' decision and this one won't either. King is whistling in the wind.
The only person in a position to lead a successful campaign is Kraft, and he's not doing it.Without rehashing everything, this is step #1 in the Patriots potentially getting the draft picks back. I think it is a long-shot at best, but this is what they need to mount a campaign to do so.
Not only that but the hatred for the Pats is strong. If Roger backed down (which he would never do in this case) the outrage from the league offices to the owners to the fans is a problem the league doesn't need. There is no chance of those picks coming back. NONE.I have never heard of a kangaroo court reversing its' decision and this one won't either. King is whistling in the wind.
I know that a lot of people felt like Kraft sold out the fan base by not suing, but I never felt like he had much choice. The league and the other owners have long memories. One of the things that struck me in the recent NYT mag article was this quote from Bob McNair:The only person in a position to lead a successful campaign is Kraft, and he's not doing it.
That's from an owner who didn't even come into the league until 2002, long after the Davis/Rozelle wars. I can't blame Kraft for taking the long view.‘Oakland gets nothing,’’ Robert McNair told me. ‘‘Al used to sue us all the time.’’
Yes, and this is only one well known example. God knows what ridiculous garbage goes on behind closed doors. Hair, nay, toupee pulling is for their eyes only in many cases.Jones and Snyder got fucked over when the league decided to penalize them for spending money in an uncapped year, and Kraft happily went along with that decision even though it was fundamentally unfair and stupid. So there's no pressing reason why Jerrah's going to step up and right the wrong that's being done to the Pats now.
The league owners and offices are run just like high school cliques, only less mature.
Starting with a premise that King usually only writes what was hinted to him by those in power, this could well be part of laying powder for next week's argument. Float the concept through the mouthpiece (King) so that the concept is out there. If Clement gets hammered by the panel on Thursday the NFL can begin settlement discussions in the context of "fairness" and that even before the appellate hearing "Roger was thinking of doing the right thing" rather than "Roger is afraid of an embarrasing loss & horrible precedent by the appellate court."I have never heard of a kangaroo court reversing its' decision and this one won't either. King is whistling in the wind.
No. F-ing. Way.Starting with a premise that King usually only writes what was hinted to him by those in power, this could well be part of laying powder for next week's argument. Float the concept through the mouthpiece (King) so that the concept is out there. If Clement gets hammered by the panel on Thursday the NFL can begin settlement discussions in the context of "fairness" and that even before the appellate hearing "Roger was thinking of doing the right thing" rather than "Roger is afraid of an embarrasing loss & horrible precedent by the appellate court."
I would say the biggest sin Kraft committed in this case was naively thinking he'd get a fair shake on this regarding Brady if he just went along with the league's punishment. He proved himself completely out of his depth when the league turned around and tried to suspend Brady anyway. So Kraft did the wrong thing (accepting the loss of the draft picks) for what he thought were the right reasons (no punishment for Brady) only to find that the league was fully intending on having its cake and eating it too, all at his expense.Yes, and this is only one well known example. God knows what ridiculous garbage goes on behind closed doors. Hair, nay, toupee pulling is for their eyes only in many cases.
The biggest sin Kraft committed in this case was beating these guys repeatedly and decisively on the field for over a decade. Kraft had few options here and he thought a show of good faith would help. It did not. Revenge is best served by the Ginger and his enablers. Just about every owner in the league couldn't be happier to see the Pats lose at least something over this.
I'd like a pony, and a unicorn, and some fairy dust and...Starting with a premise that King usually only writes what was hinted to him by those in power, this could well be part of laying powder for next week's argument. Float the concept through the mouthpiece (King) so that the concept is out there. If Clement gets hammered by the panel on Thursday the NFL can begin settlement discussions in the context of "fairness" and that even before the appellate hearing "Roger was thinking of doing the right thing" rather than "Roger is afraid of an embarrasing loss & horrible precedent by the appellate court."
Amen.I would say the biggest sin Kraft committed in this case was naively thinking he'd get a fair shake on this regarding Brady if he just went along with the league's punishment. He proved himself completely out of his depth when the league turned around and tried to suspend Brady anyway. So Kraft did the wrong thing (accepting the loss of the draft picks) for what he thought were the right reasons (no punishment for Brady) only to find that the league was fully intending on having its cake and eating it too, all at his expense.
He should have known better.
My brain keeps screaming that at some point, the NFL has to give in to common sense but you are 100% correct. They will take it to the edge of the universe knowing full well they are wrong.No. F-ing. Way.
The NFL has shown confidence at every turn and has chosen to take this as far as they can for a potential victory. There have been plenty of chances for hem to exit this thing gracefully. They're not going to spend all that money and all that time and give up at the last second.
Even if the NFL was considering a settlement, why would they want to bring the draft picks into play in those discussions? They're gone. Nothing can bring them back unless the NFL volunteers it. Best case settlement negotiations is the status quo - everyone simply moves on.
I don't know where this new Peter King is coming from. Maybe he's sick of being considered the NFL's PR wing, only to get burned from time to time. But it's definitely not coming from the NFL.
Sometimes intelligent, well calculated, and well informed people just make the wrong call. Or what turns out to have been the wrong call.I would say the biggest sin Kraft committed in this case was naively thinking he'd get a fair shake on this regarding Brady if he just went along with the league's punishment. He proved himself completely out of his depth when the league turned around and tried to suspend Brady anyway. So Kraft did the wrong thing (accepting the loss of the draft picks) for what he thought were the right reasons (no punishment for Brady) only to find that the league was fully intending on having its cake and eating it too, all at his expense.
He should have known better.
Yes, capitulating was Kraft's only decision. And really, calling it a "decision" is too strong. It didn't matter what Kraft did at that point; nothing was going to change anything.As to accepting the Pats penalty in this case, I continue to not understand why choosing not to piss directly into a fan, and fight a fight that was destined to failure, was the wrong decision. I think it was the exactly right call. I always counsel clients not to pay me to fight battles they cannot win. Now maybe Kraft capitulated too quickly. One can quibble fairly with the timing. And his language was certainly too flowery. But the decision not to fight? That was the only decision given that he could not win AND there was reason to think that Goodell would not behave like a total shithead if Kraft acted as he did.
I dunno. Because capitulating was Kraft's only realistc option, I'm not sure we can take it seriously when Kraft said he thought it might help Brady's appeal. Maybe he did really think that, but it seems just as likely to me he didn't really think it would make a difference but he thought he could sell his actions better to the fanbase by putting a "we're taking the high road" face on things.In this case, I think it was reasonable to believe that Goodell would take Kraft's capitulation into account when determining Tom's penalty. I think it was also reasonable to believe that Goodell would take Kraft's loyal support into account. Kraft has known Goodell for a long time and based on their relationship, he could have reasonably believed that Goodell would be impacted by those things. And it's possible that Kraft took into account how Goodell acted and interacted with him on DG. Those two had a world of conversations over the years that none of us are privy to.
This is such a bizarre post that I don't even know where to start.Starting with a premise that King usually only writes what was hinted to him by those in power, this could well be part of laying powder for next week's argument. Float the concept through the mouthpiece (King) so that the concept is out there. If Clement gets hammered by the panel on Thursday the NFL can begin settlement discussions in the context of "fairness" and that even before the appellate hearing "Roger was thinking of doing the right thing" rather than "Roger is afraid of an embarrasing loss & horrible precedent by the appellate court."
I think we can take it seriously. While we agree that the only move was to capitulate, there was some reason to believe that Kraft would fight to mollify his fans. Many fans felt abandoned when Kraft chose to accept the penalty, and Kraft had to know that doing so would engender that reaction. He actually indicated as such by essentially asking fans to give him the benefit of the doubt when he announced his decision, and said that he knew it would be a bitter pill for some to swallow. (Based on posts like SJH's, he was right).I dunno. Because capitulating was Kraft's only realistc option, I'm not sure we can take it seriously when Kraft said he thought it might help Brady's appeal. Maybe he did really think that, but it seems just as likely to me he didn't really think it would make a difference but he thought he could sell his actions better to the fanbase by putting a "we're taking the high road" face on things.
Not to derail this thread (if it's even possible to derail a runaway train), but did they really get fucked over? It forced two teams with poor cap management skills to pocket $10mil (Cowboys) and $36mil (Racists) instead of spending it on the next Haynesworth. Not that it matters to the context of the Patriots, but I always think it's dubious when this is used to point out Kraft's own inaction against the league.Jones and Snyder got fucked over when the league decided to penalize them for spending money in an uncapped year, and Kraft happily went along with that decision even though it was fundamentally unfair and stupid. So there's no pressing reason why Jerrah's going to step up and right the wrong that's being done to the Pats now.
The league owners and offices are run just like high school cliques, only less mature.
Sure, some (unrealistic) people say that, but I don't think that was ever an option, do you? And if it wasn't, then everything else Kraft did really comes down to posturing and mollifying the fan base. Kraft is akin to a guy who's girlfriend broke up with him and he's saying, "Yeah, it's probably for the best; I don't think it would have worked out anyway." Maybe he really feels like that way, and maybe he doesn't, but there's nothing to be gained by saying or doing anything else. At the point your girlfriend breaks up with, you can be a man about it or you can be a fool, and at the point where the league punishes you, you can be a man about it or you can be a fool. Either way, it's done.I think we can take it seriously. While we agree that the only move was to capitulate, there was some reason to believe that Kraft would fight to mollify his fans. Many fans felt abandoned when Kraft chose to accept the penalty, and Kraft had to know that doing so would engender that reaction. He actually indicated as such by essentially asking fans to give him the benefit of the doubt when he announced his decision, and said that he knew it would be a bitter pill for some to swallow. (Based on posts like SJH's, he was right).
I also don't think Kraft would have thought that he would gain a lot of fan support by taking the high road. If he thought that, he was very much wrong. But he had to know that fans would want a fight, even a fight that could not be won. "Be more like Al Davis," some said at the time, and some still say.
I don't think Kraft got any points with the league office; I think it was a neutral outcome. If he sued, there would have been a negative outcome. At the end of the day, Kraft did what was expected of him, and what every other owner ultimately has done in the same situation.By removing all doubt and throwing his support behind the system, and even Goodell the Commish, I think it was reasonable to think, and I believe Kraft really did think, that he would score some points for Tom. But I could be wrong, and without inside knowledge (no pun intended), it's impossible to really know. That said, IF Kraft actually thought that, I don't think it was a naïve or fanciful approach. Goodell should have appreciated the fealty to the league process, and should have taken that into account. Many other owners would have waged the war for PR reasons and because they are less able to go down without a fight.
Ouch. I agree it is a longshot, but in my defense, my opinion of King is so minimal that I can't believe he would come up with a theory unless there is some NFL sponsored tie-in.This is such a bizarre post that I don't even know where to start
My advice is to lay off the synthetic weed.
In fairness to King, he went off the NFL Reservation on this months ago. He seemed particularly upset about the nefarious & ludicrous spin the NFL tried to put on Brady's signing of gear and memorabilia, which was a precursor for Glampers' total misrepresentation of Brady's testimony.Ouch. I agree it is a longshot, but in my defense, my opinion of King is so minimal that I can't believe he would come up with a theory unless there is some NFL sponsored tie-in.
Ok, well now I go back to my original point: this is an incoherent mess with no basis in fact. And if you are going to insist otherwise, please explain the connection, because what you are saying makes no sense at all to me. (Note: saying "of course they are connected" is not an explanation. It's an assertion.)Of course it is connected to the court case. That is the next and probably final bit of PR pressure Goodell faces. I imagine Goodell is holding off owners' questions by telling them the appellate court will correct the rogue judge. You don't think that if the 2d Circuit upholds Berman, the owners will pay attention to the week of ESPN bashing Goodell will receive, leading to many calls by the other owners? At that point Goodell either has to explain to idiots like Irsay that the things are unrelated, or be prepared to soften the punishment.
What questions are you referring to? I highly doubt the owners have given this a lick of thought over the last 6 months since the suspension was overturnedOf course it is connected to the court case. That is the next and probably final bit of PR pressure Goodell faces. I imagine Goodell is holding off owners' questions by telling them the appellate court will correct the rogue judge. You don't think that if the 2d Circuit upholds Berman, the owners will pay attention to the week of ESPN bashing Goodell will receive, leading to many calls by the other owners? At that point Goodell either has to explain to idiots like Irsay that the things are unrelated, or be prepared to soften the punishment.
I think he's maybe saying that the General public doesn't know that and if the headlines just say NFL loses the public reaction is more or less the same vis a vis opinion on the picks.Ok, well now I go back to my original point: this is an incoherent mess with no basis in fact.
A loss with the 2nd Circuit means nothing with respect to the Patriots picks. Nothing at all.
You're a blind Patriots homer! Everyone knows that Belicheat was behind 9/11!... and it was an American Airlines jet that hit the Pentagon, not a missile.
Not only that, but a reversal by the 2d circuit will be seen as proof positive of cheating. In the end, there is absolutely nothing that will move the public needle. Even a Goodell capitulation will simply be seen as him polishing his buddy Kraft's knob by 88% of the football public.Regardless of Berman's ruling, the public has pretty well decided that the Pats are guilty. And any loss by the NFL at the 2nd Circuit will be seen as a technical issue related to the specifics of the CBA.
.
Considering the league fucked the NFLPA by hiding 120 million from them until they got thr courts involved I think they should have done more to fight for that draft pick for the Patriots.Shouldn't the NFLPA fight for the return of the draft picks? It's one fewer player drafted. More significantly, based on the estimates from http://overthecap.com/draft/, the 32nd player picked in 2016 is going to get screwed.
The information below shows the draft pick, team, overall contract value, average salary, and signing bonus for 2015 and 2016 (projected).
31 New Orleans $7,731,716 / $1,932,929 / $6,242,392
32 New England $7,613,229 / $1,903,307 / $6,140,062
33 New York $6,120,557 / $1,530,139 / $ -
34 Tampa Bay $6,068,860 / $1,517,215 / $3,899,042
31 Denver $8,013,830 / $1,457,060 / $4,028,240
32 Cleveland $6,430,208 / $1,169,129 / $2,876,516
33 Tennessee $6,375,358 / $1,159,156 / $2,836,624
34 Dallas $6,320,516 / $1,149,185 / $2,796,740
In general, picks are expected to increase about 4%. Yet the overall compensation for the 32nd pick in 2016 is projected to drop 15%. Player agents can argue for more money, but unless the rookie pool increases it could squeeze teams with high picks.
The folks at overthecap.com could be wrong, of course, so this might be a non-issue.
Shhhhhh! Do you really want the NFL to give the Colts and Jets free draft picks?Shouldn't the NFLPA fight for the return of the draft picks? It's one fewer player drafted. More significantly, based on the estimates from http://overthecap.com/draft/, the 32nd player picked in 2016 is going to get screwed.
The information below shows the draft pick, team, overall contract value, average salary, and signing bonus for 2015 and 2016 (projected).
31 New Orleans $7,731,716 / $1,932,929 / $6,242,392
32 New England $7,613,229 / $1,903,307 / $6,140,062
33 New York $6,120,557 / $1,530,139 / $ -
34 Tampa Bay $6,068,860 / $1,517,215 / $3,899,042
31 Denver $8,013,830 / $1,457,060 / $4,028,240
32 Cleveland $6,430,208 / $1,169,129 / $2,876,516
33 Tennessee $6,375,358 / $1,159,156 / $2,836,624
34 Dallas $6,320,516 / $1,149,185 / $2,796,740
In general, picks are expected to increase about 4%. Yet the overall compensation for the 32nd pick in 2016 is projected to drop 15%. Player agents can argue for more money, but unless the rookie pool increases it could squeeze teams with high picks.
The folks at overthecap.com could be wrong, of course, so this might be a non-issue.
Which court was it that get involved?Considering the league fucked the NFLPA by hiding 120 million from them until they got thr courts involved I think they should have done more to fight for that draft pick for the Patriots.
That was the best article about this whole fiasco. Well done, Stephanie.Steph Stradley chimes in about returning draft picks:
http://www.stradleylaw.com/patriots-draft-picks/
Can someone get this televised? Whether you're right or not that we will learn "nothing of value", that won't stop my need for the lawyers in here to opine on the three judges and their leanings, etc. Maybe it's just that I lived/died with this thread about a year ago, but I consider today to be a big day vis a vis the 2016/17 season.Thursday at noon eastern you'll learn the names of three judges, which in all likelihood will tell you nothing of value.
Excellent article. Runs rings around PK's meager efforts on the same subject.Steph Stradley chimes in about returning draft picks:
http://www.stradleylaw.com/patriots-draft-picks/
It was a great article. It will also go completely unnoticed by football fans as a whole, sadly.Excellent article. Runs rings around PK's meager efforts on the same subject.
This is where the panel will get posted (I assume at some point a refresh will yield actual names):Can someone get this televised? Whether you're right or not that we will learn "nothing of value", that won't stop my need for the lawyers in here to opine on the three judges and their leanings, etc. Maybe it's just that I lived/died with this thread about a year ago, but I consider today to be a big day vis a vis the 2016/17 season.