#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[simplyeric]

The "sting" shit is pure conjecture. There isn't a shred of evidence thus far that lends credence to that theory.

I think there's something in between a 'sting' and 'huh who woulda thunk it?' And that's 'gamesmanship'.
Someone mentioned it up thread. Maybe they were just trying to rattle Tom, by having the second half balls be a little different than he expected, and no one really bought it would turn into a 'gate'.
Gamesmanship would explain why it seems so premeditated, without the refs saving the evidence for later.

Or, the haters wanted it to be a setup, but the refs didn't know that, and just thought 'well, we corrected the problem, what else is there to do?

 

[BornToRun]

 
I am so jaded and burned out by the press, I have no idea what to think!  

That the vast majority of them are fucking idiots and most likely can't even wipe their own asses. Keep it simple.

 

[accidentalsuccess]

To be fair, if some ref gets fucked over for not checking the pressure of every single ball and just going by feel, it's bullshit as well. There's absolutely no reason to be so strict about pressure.

I agree but let's let the media feast on the ones that are ACTUALLY to blame for this mess.......

 

[ivanvamp]

To be fair, if some ref gets fucked over for not checking the pressure of every single ball and just going by feel, it's bullshit as well. There's absolutely no reason to be so strict about pressure.

Agreed. But the real problem comes if the refs lied to the league about how they inspected the footballs. Then, naturally, they can expect serious disciplinary action.

 

[kartvelo]

To be fair, if some ref gets fucked over for not checking the pressure of every single ball and just going by feel, it's bullshit as well. There's absolutely no reason to be so strict about pressure.

Agreed.

 

[Kull]

If they didn't tamper with the footballs after receiving them from the refs, the case is absolutely closed. What else could have happened that would place the guilt on the Patriots?

 
Who knows, it's all tin foil hat stuff anyway (even the sidelines thing, actually). The balls don't teleport from the ref locker room to the sidelines, so perhaps the sneaky ball boys have time to manipulate them enroute. Or any number of harebrained possibilities that the NFL would have to "investigate" since the whole point of the exercise is "catch the cheaters"

 

[B H Kim]

Then run your own experiment. If Bill Belichick can find the time to do so during preparations for the Super Bowl, you have no excuse for idle opinionating.

 
Well, if we eliminated all idle opinionating, this thread would be about 3 pages long.

 

[scotian1]

Isn't it time that owner Kraft comes out and supports his coach, quarterback and team?

 

[rodderick]

I agree but let's let the media feast on the ones that are ACTUALLY to blame for this mess.......

The NFL? The Colts? Themselves? From all we've heard it's pretty much a known fact that the refs don't always check the balls with a pressure gauge. No one gives a shit about it, there hasn't been a single complaint, business goes on like usual.

Now some salty fuckwads try to get one over Belichick and the Patriots, media monkeys gobble it up, and when little Rog can't find any evidence of wrongdoing he's gonna swing his hammer the refs' way for something that is pretty much an accepted procedure? And the media is going to get all sanctimonious about something they know for a fact has been happening for a while and no one ever gave a shit?

I mean, it's okay if it takes the focus off the Patriots, but it is still a load of bullshit.

 

[simplyeric]

 
Well, if we eliminated all idle opinionating, this thread would be about 3 pages long.

That's just, like, your opinion man.

 

[lithos2003]

I think there's something in between a 'sting' and 'huh who woulda thunk it?' And that's 'gamesmanship'.
Someone mentioned it up thread. Maybe they were just trying to rattle Tom, by having the second half balls be a little different than he expected, and no one really bought it would turn into a 'gate'.
Gamesmanship would explain why it seems so premeditated, without the refs saving the evidence for later.

Or, the haters wanted it to be a setup, but the refs didn't know that, and just thought 'well, we corrected the problem, what else is there to do?

 
Wish casting on my part I know, but I wonder if this really does fall on the refs that the Super Bowl refs would be under closer supervision when it comes to calls against the Patriots (concerns about retaliation and all that). 

 

[Hoya81]

Isn't it time that owner Kraft comes out and supports his coach, quarterback and team?

Better for Kraft to keep the back channels open to the league and the other owners.

 

[Marciano490]

Eh, screw the refs.  If someone needs to be sacrificed to the horde, better them than the Pats.
 
I'd have more sympathy if they'd called PI on any of those 3 goal line passes where Gronk et al got mugged.

 

[Kull]

Better for Kraft to keep the back channels open to the league and the other owners.

 
Agreed. Belichick's masterful performance put the whole thing back on the NFL, and nothing more is needed from the team (at least in public).

 

[Harry Hooper]

Better for Kraft to keep the back channels open to the league and the other owners.

 
Maybe Kraft has given the Commish a deadline which is approaching rapidly (the Monday announcement rumor?).

 

[YTF]

rodderick

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Posted Today, 12:48 PM
To be fair, if some ref gets fucked over for not checking the pressure of every single ball and just going by feel, it's bullshit as well. There's absolutely no reason to be so strict about pressure.          
 
 
 
 
Obviously there IS a reason. There may not have been a few weeks ago, but someone has made it a reason. If the league has been forced to launch an investigation into this and one of the two Super Bowl participants has come under fire for the entire first week (so far) of a two week prep for the league's championship and it's determined that the proper protocol for testing game balls wasn't followed then where does the fault lie? Yeah it sucks for him, but NFL refs make pretty good money for a part time gig. To borrow a familiar phrase..."Just do your job." Just like many things in many work places, non of this shit matters until it matters. Honestly if it's important enough to be a rule, and important enough to have been taken this far, then it's important enough to discipline whatever league official may be responsible IF the proper pre game ball checks weren't done.
 
Also I'm guessing from this point forward all balls will be numbered and logged with pregame PSI, which quite honestly should have been part of the procedure all along.

 

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I really want to see a epic rout on Sunday, something like 62-7 with Jimmy throwing a pair of touchdowns in the 4th. And Gronk catching a long touchdown pass and puncturing the football in the end zone.

 

[Devizier]

To be fair, if some ref gets fucked over for not checking the pressure of every single ball and just going by feel, it's bullshit as well. There's absolutely no reason to be so strict about pressure.

No shit. I hope that ref is reinstated once Goodell is fired this offseason.

 

[loshjott]

So if it comes back to the refs it's Indy who will get screwed on calls next year.

 

[rodderick]

rodderick

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Posted Today, 12:48 PM
To be fair, if some ref gets fucked over for not checking the pressure of every single ball and just going by feel, it's bullshit as well. There's absolutely no reason to be so strict about pressure.          
 
 
 
 
Obviously there IS a reason. There may not have been a few weeks ago, but someone has made it a reason. If the league has been forced to launch an investigation into this and one of the two Super Bowl participants has come under fire for the entire first week (so far) of a two week prep for the league's championship and it's determined that the proper protocol for testing game balls wasn't followed then where does the fault lie? Yeah it sucks for him, but NFL refs make pretty good money for a part time gig. To borrow a familiar phrase..."Just do your job." Just like many things in many work places, non of this shit matters until it matters. Honestly if it's important enough to be a rule, and important enough to have been taken this far, then it's important enough to discipline whatever league official may be responsible IF the proper pre game ball checks weren't done.

It's a rule from 1938, are you serious? What evidence is there that keeping footballs strictly between 12.5 and 13.5 psi is important to the integrity of the game? Let teams inflate balls however they like, who gives a shit as long as they're not throwing a limp piece of leather out there?

 

[accidentalsuccess]

The NFL? The Colts? Themselves? From all we've heard it's pretty much a known fact that the refs don't always check the balls with a pressure gauge. No one gives a shit about it, there hasn't been a single complaint, business goes on like usual.

Now some salty fuckwads try to get one over Belichick and the Patriots, media monkeys gobble it up, and when little Rog can't find any evidence of wrongdoing he's gonna swing his hammer the refs' way for something that is pretty much an accepted procedure? And the media is going to get all sanctimonious about something they know for a fact has been happening for a while and no one ever gave a shit?

I mean, it's okay if it takes the focus off the Patriots, but it is still a load of bullshit.

 
Yup, but I'm fine with the league and officials reaping what they sow for once....stupid rules (strict about the psi range), not checking them (probably just a 'squeeze test'), a lack of basic science knowledge (pressure decreases when it gets colder NO WAY?!!), and a tone-deaf approach to the problem (the PATRIOTS had to do a study rather than the league doing this?!!).

 

[Hoya81]

I think there's something in between a 'sting' and 'huh who woulda thunk it?' And that's 'gamesmanship'.
Someone mentioned it up thread. Maybe they were just trying to rattle Tom, by having the second half balls be a little different than he expected, and no one really bought it would turn into a 'gate'.
Gamesmanship would explain why it seems so premeditated, without the refs saving the evidence for later.

Or, the haters wanted it to be a setup, but the refs didn't know that, and just thought 'well, we corrected the problem, what else is there to do?

I also don't think the refs Union would have allowed them to participate in a sting involving actions that happen outside the lines, really outside the scope of their responsibilities.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 

 
Obviously there IS a reason. There may not have been a few weeks ago, but someone has made it a reason. If the league has been forced to launch an investigation into this and one of the two Super Bowl participants has come under fire for the entire first week (so far) of a two week prep for the league's championship and it's determined that the proper protocol for testing game balls wasn't followed then where does the fault lie? Yeah it sucks for him, but NFL refs make pretty good money for a part time gig. To borrow a familiar phrase..."Just do your job." Just like many things in many work places, non of this shit matters until it matters. Honestly if it's important enough to be a rule, and important enough to have been taken this far, then it's important enough to discipline whatever league official may be responsible IF the proper pre game ball checks weren't done.

 

 
 
Well, yes and no. Think about batters setting up with a foot behind the back line of the batter's box. This is the rule "in effect" despite the rule against it on the books, and everything is copacetic. Are you suddenly going to hang an ump for not enforcing this rule by the book? If the rule "in effect" in the NFL is anything between 11 and 14 PSI is OK, is it fair to go after the refs now for not following the rule in the book to the letter?
 
 
Addendum: Obviously, if the NFL sent the officials a "point of emphasis" advisory in the last few years about the proper way to do pregame ball inspection, then that's a different situation.

 

[YTF]

rodderick I largely agree with you, but the league has been forced into this situation. SOMETHING has to come from it. IMO Bill squarely put this back into the leagues lap yesterday. This isn't going away and if there is any evidence that proper pre game protocol wasn't followed, what choice is there?

 

[TheoShmeo]

rodderick I largely agree with you, but the league has been forced into this situation. SOMETHING has to come from it. IMO Bill squarely put this back into the leagues lap yesterday. This isn't going away and if there is any evidence that proper pre game protocol wasn't followed, what choice is there?

Not so sure.  The league could just slow roll this and come out with something relatively innocuous later on. 
 
"Evidence is inconclusive; we will have enhanced and more uniform procedures in the future; very serious matter; we suck in every way possible."

 

[E5 Yaz]

Not so sure.  The league could just slow roll this and come out with something relatively innocuous later on. 
 
"Evidence is inconclusive; we will have enhanced and more uniform procedures in the future; very serious matter; we suck in every way possible."

 
This is what they've done this week. As others have stated, in this way, they get a pound of flesh from the Patriots without actually having to prove anything

 

[rodderick]

rodderick I largely agree with you, but the league has been forced into this situation. SOMETHING has to come from it. IMO Bill squarely put this back into the leagues lap yesterday. This isn't going away and if there is any evidence that proper pre game protocol wasn't followed, what choice is there?

I'm not saying they should leave this unaddressed, I just fear that they'll try to offer a response to the craziness of the media and come down HARD on a ref that didn't follow the most inane of requirements for a proper football game to take place.

If they want to put mechanisms in place to make sure the refs are checking footballs with a gauge, that's fine. What I don't want is for a guy to be hung out to dry and to be made an example of for something that is rampant around the league and that doesn't have real ingame implications.

 

[E5 Yaz]

ESPNdirocco Michael DiRocco
“@JayGlazer: Are we all seriously now quoting freakin Bill Nye The Science Guy on NFL biz?? Ok, this officially has gotten ridiculous” Amen

 

[YTF]

Harry Hooper


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Posted Today, 01:12 PM

YTF, on 25 Jan 2015 - 1:05 PM, said:
 

 

 
Harry Hooper


SoSH Member

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Well, yes and no. Think about batters setting up with a foot behind the back line of the batter's box. This is the rule "in effect" despite the rule against it on the books, and everything is copacetic. Are you suddenly going to hang an ump for not enforcing this rule by the book? If the rule "in effect" in the NFL is anything between 11 and 14 PSI is OK, is it fair to go after the refs now for not following the rule in the book to the letter?
 
 
Your comparison here is terrible. That would never happen as there is clear evidence of that being the norm in any and ALL MLB games. This is uncharted waters here on the eve of the leagues premiere event. There are guidelines in place in place for how the games most important piece of equipment is to be handled. This has become a HUGE deal and the magnitude of it pretty much demands some sort of answer and resolve. Personally I don't see it as that big of a deal. problem is, it's become one.






 
 

 

[Leather]

Well throwing a ref under the bus sucks too, but at least it would be disciplining the more culpable party.

Sure, it's like throwing a driver in jail for a year for a busted taillight, but coming down on the patriots instead would be like throwing the passenger of the car in jail, instead.

 

[Devizier]

Or the NFL could admit the widespread nature of the practice, confess that they screwed up their handling of the issue, and own up to the problem that they have (mostly) created.

... Nah

 

[E5 Yaz]

A few more thoughts on underinflated footballs: While 11 of 12 Patriots footballs reportedly tested below 12.5 psi, how much lower all of them actually came in is not known. This is critical information and was a point ESPN.com NFL Insider Adam Schefter made on the Michael Kay Show on ESPN New York, noting that it was his understanding there were varying levels of how underinflated each football actually was. Also, what about the difference in psi levels of the Colts' footballs from before the game to after the game? That is key information for a point of comparison.
 

 

 It seems safe to say the level of animosity the Patriots harbor for the Colts is heightened after Sunday's AFC title game, with the presumption that Indianapolis not only brought the issue of underinflated footballs to the NFL, but also leaked the information publicly to create a distraction and firestorm that ignited to the point that national network newscasts were leading with the story. With this in mind, it vaults the Patriots' road game against the Colts to the top of the list when it comes to the most highly-anticipated 2015 regular-season contest. If the Patriots win Super Bowl XLIX, would the NFL -- which some might say thrives off drama -- consider making it the Thursday night NFL opener? While the defending champ usually opens at home, the 2013 Ravens were on the road (in part because of an issue with sharing parking with the Orioles, who had a game that day).

 
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4777070/quick-hit-thoughts-around-patriots-nfl-12?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[YTF]

If this is truly a "slow roll situation" and a way to get a "pound of flesh" in the mean time, then I think the NFL is dumber than many of us think. THIS is what you want people talking about leading up to the game? More important is this what you want people to discuss for decades after if it becomes one of the all time great games in Super Bowl history? If the league has no evidence of wrong doing then announce it.
 
And YES... what divizier said 1000 times. that would be very much be my desired result here.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 








 
Your comparison here is terrible. That would never happen as there is clear evidence of that being the norm in any and ALL MLB games. This is uncharted waters here on the eve of the leagues premiere event. There are guidelines in place in place for how the games most important piece of equipment is to be handled. This has become a HUGE deal and the magnitude of it pretty much demands some sort of answer and resolve. Personally I don't see it as that big of a deal. problem is, it's become one.






 
 


 

 
I will repeat: If the rule "in effect" in the NFL is anything between 11 and 14 PSI is OK...
 
There is at least some evidence out there that these guidelines you mention are not treated in practice as so critical. There a lot written about how rigorous the NFL is in evaluating the performance of their officials after every weekend's games. Assessing crews on ball inflation doesn't seem to have been a criterion.

 

[Leather]

If this is truly a "slow roll situation" and a way to get a "pound of flesh" in the mean time, then I think the NFL is dumber than many of us think. THIS is what you want people talking about leading up to the game? More important is this what you want people to discuss for decades after if it becomes one of the all time great games in Super Bowl history? If the league has no evidence of wrong doing then announce it.
 
And YES... what divizier said 1000 times. that would be very much be my desired result here.

My sports ignorant, 72 year old, mother in law emailed my wife to get my opinion on Deflategate.

Everyone is talking about football.

 

[YTF]

I will repeat: If the rule "in effect" in the NFL is anything between 11 and 14 PSI is OK...
 
There is at least some evidence out there that these guidelines you mention are not treated in practice as so critical.
 
 
 
But this week they have become VERY critical. And if the league would seriously consider disciplining a team over the matter then I ask you what should happen to the person or persons responsible for making sure the balls are in compliance IF it's to be found that they didn't properly see to this?

 

[TheoShmeo]

If this is truly a "slow roll situation" and a way to get a "pound of flesh" in the mean time, then I think the NFL is dumber than many of us think. THIS is what you want people talking about leading up to the game? More important is this what you want people to discuss for decades after if it becomes one of the all time great games in Super Bowl history? If the league has no evidence of wrong doing then announce it.
 
And YES... what divizier said 1000 times. that would be very much be my desired result here.

Then again, their handling of the Ray Rice situation from pretty much beginning to end exposes them as dumber than dumb. 
 
This IS what people are talking about, not a great match-up of one seeds.
 
Parenthetically, this reminds me of the inverse of how the media treated the Pats great SB win over the Panthers in SB 38. 
 
In the weeks that followed that game, THE story was Janet Jackson's right breast, not the thriller of a game or the Pats' second championship.

 

[DJnVa]

Has Werder even done any reporting or investigating throughout this whole mess, or just tweet his inane conjecture like mostly everyone else? I wouldn't take anything he says right now as fact.

 
Yeah, that Werder tweet was protecting the shield. He's not a white lister, he gets very defensive when people question him.
 
 
Also, listening to ESPN Radio earlier and the host said "I have no idea what happened, but clearly the Patriots and Tom Brady need to be punished." I do not understand the stupidity.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
But this week they have become VERY critical. And if the league would seriously consider disciplining a team over the matter then I ask you what should happen to the person or persons responsible for making sure the balls are in compliance IF it's to be found that they didn't properly see to this?

 
 
Again, I questioned the fairness of disciplining the refs, not whether the NFL would go ahead and make them the scapegoats here. it's even more unfair if the message the league has been sending to the officials is "make the QBs happy."

 

[E5 Yaz]

Also, listening to ESPN Radio earlier and the host said "I have no idea what happen, but clearly the Patriots and Tom Brady need to be punished." I do not understand the stupidity.

 
Oh, you understand the stupidity. What you don't understand is why there is no one at ESPN with the common sense to call them on their shit and tell them to stop

 

[YTF]

My sports ignorant, 72 year old, mother in law emailed my wife to get my opinion on Deflategate.

Everyone is talking about football.          
 
 
 
With all due respect to your mother in law, I can't imagine the league wants this. People aren't talking about football, they are talking about footballs.

 

[accidentalsuccess]

 
 
Again, I questioned the fairness of disciplining the refs, not whether the NFL would go ahead and make them the scapegoats here. it's even more unfair if the message the league has been sending to the officials is "make the QBs happy."

'cause it's totally fair to let the mediots run around trying to tarnish one of the most accomplished organizations in the league.....

 

[Icculus]

Could they actually blame the refs or am I making too much of the phrase "The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications." I read that as basically meaning he gets to judge all the characteristics however he wants: squeezes, needles, gauges, lasers, then say it's fine. At that point the ball is acceptable to play with. You can come in with a probe from NASA that says the ball is inflated to 6.14159 psi and it wouldn't matter, the ball meets NFL specs.

 

[DJnVa]

Have we learned anything about the validity of this twitter?

 
Well, the last tweet if theirs that got traction here was about the NFL having no evidence on NE and then BB came out and told the NFL to go fuck themselves...

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Could they actually blame the refs or am I making too much of the phrase "The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications." I read that as basically meaning he gets to judge all the characteristics however he wants: squeezes, needles, gauges, lasers, then say it's fine. At that point the ball is acceptable to play with. You can come in with a probe from NASA that says the ball is inflated to 6.14159 psi and it wouldn't matter, the ball meets NFL specs.

 
I think one of the things the Pats set up in the PC yesterday was a standard that their responsibility for the ball PSI ends once it is handed to the refs 2.5 hours before the game (absent affirmative evidence they tampered with pressure after that).

This is a nice bit of legal burden-shifting, I think.

 

[Jettisoned]

But this week they have become VERY critical. And if the league would seriously consider disciplining a team over the matter then I ask you what should happen to the person or persons responsible for making sure the balls are in compliance IF it's to be found that they didn't properly see to this?

 
Oh, that's easy.  Summary execution.

 

[Turrable]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4777070/quick-hit-thoughts-around-patriots-nfl-12?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 
I'm more excited for that next Colts game than the Super Bowl, they're gonna lose by 400 points

 

[Leather]

Well, that's just it: this entire stupid, ridiculous, THING is based on three premises that any neutral observer should recognize as false, or at least unproven:

1) that the balls being out of spec is attributable solely to the Patriots;

2) using deflated balls confers a material advantage; and

2) Belichick and the Patriots are liars, so nothing they say can be trusted.

From these false premises, people construct a circular logic argument that goes:

"The Patriots cheated by using deflated balls, and we know this because the balls were deflated, and only the Patriots would have deflated them, because they are cheaters."

 

[E5 Yaz]

 
I'm more excited for that next Colts game than the Super Bowl, they're gonna lose by 400 points

 
What's unfortunate is that the Colts players themselves are likely uninvolved in this. 

 

[Kull]

Could they actually blame the refs or am I making too much of the phrase "The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications." I read that as basically meaning he gets to judge all the characteristics however he wants: squeezes, needles, gauges, lasers, then say it's fine. At that point the ball is acceptable to play with. You can come in with a probe from NASA that says the ball is inflated to 6.14159 psi and it wouldn't matter, the ball meets NFL specs.

 
Unless there is a written protocol that describes how footballs must be examined - something detailed and well beyond the actual rule - then no. Or they made statements to the league which have proven untrue after the fact. THAT would get some or all in serious hot water. The cover up is always worse than the "crime" in situations like this.