#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Byrdbrain]

 
Sorry, I meant with the procedures that were analyzed 60 pages ago, not Mort's stuff. Are the refs supposed to use pressure gauges pregame or just feel the balls and then do they log those pressures? Maybe it isn't clear from the procedural stuff. Thanks

The way I've seen it is the balls are to be made available to be tested, the actual testing is a bit more vague.
See this article:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/super-bowl-xlix/deflate-gate-nfl-ball-boys-perspective-preparing-footballs-n290801

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Charlie Pierce is the best.  He has the greatest putdowns in journalism.

 
He shows up on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me and brings the house down all the time.

 

[naclone]

Heath Evans and Willie McGinest were on NFLN last night and were emphatic that this will not be a distraction. Heath went as far to say that the pressure of going 19-0/spygate had no bearing whatsoever on their SB loss to the Giants. He closed by saying the "Patriot Way" that Willie helped create is the reason why. 

 

[bsj]

Brunell is turning back into a pumpkin here. 

 

[SumnerH]

 
Maybe I am misreading the post you responded to, but I think what he was suggesting is that if there is no evidence of actual tampering, the fine should be the minimum outlined in the rules for using footballs that are not up to spec.  (Meaning - a minimal fine for a technical violation.)
 
Maybe I am incorrect but that's how I read it.

 
But there is no technical violation if the leaked info is correct.  The NFL is claiming the balls tested within spec at the outset of the game.  After that, they're no longer the team's responsibility (though obviously tampering with them is still verboten).

 

[Kull]

 
This x 100, it's ALL THAT MATTERS.  Anything else is media BS or reporting by people with agenda's, if the refs did the squeeze test and are afraid of being canned so they state that they did a gauge test the answer will never be found.  Anything short of the information above and this will never go away.  If the NFL wants to make this clear, announce all ball pressures, show equipment used, and clearly state that all balls were tested by a gauge not a squeeze test by the refs.  IF the ref's didn't test with gauge they are done IMO for not coming out with the truth before now.
 

 
There would be witnesses, yes? Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but didn't the Peter King article on pregame ball procedures mention that the ball boys were present for that?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

What we need and haven't received yet:
Confirmation on whether all 36 balls (12 Pats game balls, 12 Pats back up balls, 12 Colts balls) were tested with a gauge before the game, where this testing took place, and whether these results were recorded.
Confirmation on when and where the Pats game balls were tested during the game, whether any other balls were tested, and whether any results were recorded.  An additional nice to know would be whether these balls were modified (pumped up again) and where these balls were stored after the testing when they failed the test.
Confirmation on when and where all 36 were tested after the game, and whether any results were recorded.
 
Failing this information I think there is no way to prove that anyone did anything wrong.  I do not trust any leaks through anonymous NFL leaks. 

I think the chances of the pregame readings being recorded is very very low. Further, to my understanding there is no unique ball identifier that would allow them to match pregame and halftime readings, which is obviously necessary to precisely calculate the degree of deflation for a specific ball.

I think the evidence will look very weak unless those halftime readings were in the 10.5 range. Maybe they were.

 

[Laser Show]

I have two concerns at this point.
 
One, like yours, is distraction.  Undoubtedly all of this nonsense will result in less focus on Seattle than if it did not exist.  Even if they put in the same amount of time, they are being asked about it and will be asked about it, and will be devoting mental energy to it.  Hell, if the NFL does its job, they will waste several hours of Tom's life.
 
Two is whether BB's handling of the press conference yesterday has any negative affect on his relationship with Tom, whether in the short or long term.
 
As to the first question, the optimist in me says they have enough time to spend left in the days before the game.  But the concern lingers.
 
As to the second question, who the hell knows but it would be normal for Brady to have some negative reaction unless their performances were coordinated, which seems likely.

I completely get the second part, but I think it's virtually impossible that they didn't coordinate before hand, like you said. There's too much at stake not to. So it hasn't really registered on my list.

A minor concern is the "legacy" but this whole thing has made me realize that I don't care what anyone else thinks. Just fucking win on Sunday.

(As a side note, I can't wait for 5 to 10 years from now when everyone looks back at this and realizes how stupid everything about this is.)

 

[Marciano490]

At least I can go back to hating the Colts again.  It was weird being ambivalent towards them these past couple years after loathing them most of my adult fanhood.

 

[GregHarris]

Mark Brunell is a fucking moron.  This interview is silly.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 
The wrestling thread on P&G is at 509 pages and that was the first place I looked. This one isn't close. 

 
Man, between this and that, people really like talking about pointless crap.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

"Coordinating their stories" aside for a second, my first thought when BB directed things toward TB was so that there were no flub ups from two (albeit very smart) men answering the exact same questions.  IOW you cant hold someone to something they never even said in the first place.  It removed the possibility of there being any "discrepancies", no matter how miniscule those "discrepancies" may have been.
 
EDIT  I forget what the specific was (maybe it was that BB was very specific to use use 0.2 PSI in one example, and TB used a much wider range), but TB went off-script at one point and referenced some specific which he immediately appeared to realize he shouldnt have mentioned .  He caught himself and went back on-script/toed the party line.
 

 
If it was the truth, which seems highly likely, then what can TB be mad about, really?  The team is in siege mode and can't get caught telling a lie or even appearing to be playing fast and loose with the truth.  BB covering for Brady simply wouldn't fly, and TB would get asked the same questions at his press conference anyway.   So, even if BB "covered" for Brady, what's Brady going to do?  Say "I don't know anything about my own ball choice procedure.  Ask coach."  That would be stupid and literally incredible. 
 

 

[Caspir]

Heath Evans and Willie McGinest were on NFLN last night and were emphatic that this will not be a distraction. Heath went as far to say that the pressure of going 19-0/spygate had no bearing whatsoever on their SB loss to the Giants. He closed by saying the "Patriot Way" that Willie helped create is the reason why. 

 
His comments are the opposite of Bruschi's. How they respond will be a fascinating subplot to a great match up. I expect they'll be ready, but media day is going to be draining.

 

[Stitch01]

I completely get the second part, but I think it's virtually impossible that they didn't coordinate before hand, like you said. There's too much at stake not to. So it hasn't really registered on my list.

A minor concern is the "legacy" but this whole thing has made me realize that I don't care what anyone else thinks. Just fucking win on Sunday.

(As a side note, I can't wait for 5 to 10 years from now when everyone looks back at this and realizes how stupid everything about this is.)

The "I love the 2010s" show segment on this in 2035 is going to be funny.

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

This thread has likely broken the record for fastest to 100+ pages for a non gamethread.

 

[Laser Show]

Heath Evans and Willie McGinest were on NFLN last night and were emphatic that this will not be a distraction. Heath went as far to say that the pressure of going 19-0/spygate had no bearing whatsoever on their SB loss to the Giants. He closed by saying the "Patriot Way" that Willie helped create is the reason why. 

This actually makes me feel a good bit better, thanks for this.

 

[shepard50]

He had Charlie Pierce do it for him

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/brady-belichick-and-great-balls-of-fire-a-front-row-seat-for-the-foxborough-farce/

 
 

 
That was great. I'm making Infantalized Yahoos my fantasy football team's name next year.

 
If you haven't read this, go read it now. It's insightful and funny.  Example quote:
 

 
 
...these three lawyers will go into court to defend Aaron Hernandez, who, were he not accused of killing a man, would be catching semi-inflated footballs for the Patriots.

 
 
It's also got good perspective without being 'homery' for the pats or 'witch hunty' against them.

 

[Leather]

This actually makes me feel a good bit better, thanks for this.

 
I don't know for a fact, but I imagine this week is more devoted to game planning and regular routine practicing.  Wednesday was a scheduled off day, to boot.
 
In other words, better this week than next.  
 
Of course, watch Goodell announce some ludicrous penalty next Thursday at 3:00 PM.

 

[McBride11]

The way I've seen it is the balls are to be made available to be tested, the actual testing is a bit more vague.
See this article:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/super-bowl-xlix/deflate-gate-nfl-ball-boys-perspective-preparing-footballs-n290801

 
Thanks, so basically the refs just give a good squeze and call it a day (typically). Since, ya know, no one can tell the difference of 2 psi in a football, just 'hard' or 'soft'.

 

[Valek123]

 
There would be witnesses, yes? Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but didn't the Peter King article on pregame ball procedures mention that the ball boys were present for that?

The article below seems to confirm that however...
 

The way I've seen it is the balls are to be made available to be tested, the actual testing is a bit more vague.
See this article:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/super-bowl-xlix/deflate-gate-nfl-ball-boys-perspective-preparing-footballs-n290801

From that article on ref's testing the footballs: ""I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces. I don't recall them ever rejecting one of our balls," he said."
That did nothing to make me any more comfortable with this process, and only reinforced my biggest concerns.

 

[cornwalls@6]

 
If it was the truth, which seems highly likely, then what can TB be mad about, really?  The team is in siege mode and can't get caught telling a lie or even appearing to be playing fast and loose with the truth.  BB covering for Brady simply wouldn't fly, and TB would get asked the same questions at his press conference anyway.   So, even if BB "covered" for Brady, what's Brady going to do?  Say "I don't know anything about my own ball choice procedure.  Ask coach."  That would be stupid and literally incredible. 
 
I mean, it would be one thing if BB asked Brady to lie, or exaggerate his ball picking routine, but I doubt that's the case.  
 
Anyway, I'm sure they coordinated the response with Kraft, anyway.   Brady is likely shaken because it's the first time he hasn't been teflon.

 

See, I just don't  buy this, which Pierce was also espousing in his other wise spot on piece, that Brady was shaken yesterday. I watched all of it, and he seemed fine to me. Maybe bemused by the sheer fucking stupidity of all this, but not rattled or shaken. Plus, as noted by you and many others, there is no way that he, BB, Kraft, Stacey James, etc. didn't sit down before hand and co-ordinate their responses yesterday.  

 

[OCST]

<v&n>
 
you know, shitstorms like this are exactly why we have due process protections, presumption of innocence, etc. in the criminal justice system, so the next time you here say something like "screw the trial, just hang him by his balls," remember that.  
 
It's a little discouraging to see all the energy expended on this when there are clusterfucks going on in the world re: things that actually matter.
 
</v&n>
 
Carry on.

 

[Rustjive]

Sorry, I meant with the procedures that were analyzed 60 pages ago, not Mort's stuff. Are the refs supposed to use pressure gauges pregame or just feel the balls and then do they log those pressures? Maybe it isn't clear from the procedural stuff. Thanks

We know for a fact that the procedure isn't that stringent, and there's probably no log, because otherwise Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have a way to sneak his overinflated balls by the refs. He's counting on the check to be informal.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

 
This x 100, it's ALL THAT MATTERS.  Anything else is media BS or reporting by people with agenda's, if the refs did the squeeze test and are afraid of being canned so they state that they did a gauge test the answer will never be found.  Anything short of the information above and this will never go away.  If the NFL wants to make this clear, announce all ball pressures, show equipment used, and clearly state that all balls were tested by a gauge not a squeeze test by the refs.  IF the ref's didn't test with gauge they are done IMO for not coming out with the truth before now.
 
**sorry for multiple edits, ended up pulling in a multi-quote post and it formatted horribly.

 
I would disagree and say that all that stuff only matters if the NFL thinks it will help them make the most money out of this deal.  
The money is literally all that matters.  If the truth is more profitable and helpful to the brand/broadcasting partners then that is what we will get.  If controversy and shame is better, then that is what we will get.
 
I don't get why people keep assuming that the truth is going to matter in the end.

 

[JimD]

Conversation that I hope Bob Kraft is having with Roger Goodell:
 
RG: "Bob, I have to do something. My guys are telling me that they tested the Patriot footballs before the game and they were fine, but when they tested them at halftime most of the balls were underinflated."
 
RK: "What proof do you have that someone on my team tampered with the footballs?"
 
RG: "We don't have any proof, but c'mon ..." 
 
RK: "Ok, then what proof do you have that the referees actually tested the balls before the game?"
 
RG: "They told me they did.  C'mon, Bob, you know ..."
 
RK: "Here's what I know - that you are taking the word of some part-time employees over one of your owners ..."
 
RG: " ... um ..."
 
RK: " ... an owner that took your word at face value that you never saw those elevator tapes ..."
 
RG: "Let me get back to you"

 

[simplyeric]

 
also, why are they using cartoon vaginas to bullet-point their list?

 

[Leather]

RK: Roger, can you PROVE that you didn't offer to make this go away if I gave you a blowjob?

 

[naclone]

This actually makes me feel a good bit better, thanks for this.

Evan's articulation of "The Patriot Way" was pretty funny. Essentially: "You don't know anything about this and therefore have nothing to say. Shut the eff up and DO YOUR JOB" - What's most interesting to me is the thought that this may have actually originated with McGinest/Bruschi/Law and not BB. He and Tom have kept it going but I really got the sense that it was those defensive leaders who are the true architects of TPW. Speculation on my part, but fun to think about.

 

[Leather]

Fuck "The Patriot Way".  It's dumb.  Christ.  In every other place in the world it's called "working hard". 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

One of the most farcical things about this is lying shitstain Ron Borges telling Brady, "Jackson noticed that the ball was soft but you didn't?"
 
Then of course Jackson is interviewed and says he didn't notice anything wrong with the ball.
 
Clownshoes, all of them.

 

[johnmd20]

One of the most farcical things about this is lying shitstain Ron Borges telling Brady, "Jackson noticed that the ball was soft but you didn't?"
 
Then of course Jackson is interviewed and says he didn't notice anything wrong with the ball.
 
Clownshoes, all of them.

 
This whole thing is a bunch of Clownshoes tripping over themeless to sound the stupidest.

 

[Kull]

The article below seems to confirm that however...
 

 
Good. That should eliminate the possibility of the refs lying about performing an inspection using the gauges. There would be witnesses who would know otherwise.

 

[Marciano490]

One of the most farcical things about this is lying shitstain Ron Borges telling Brady, "Jackson noticed that the ball was soft but you didn't?"
 
Then of course Jackson is interviewed and says he didn't notice anything wrong with the ball.
 
Clownshoes, all of them.

 
You know that story about how Gandhi used to sleep next to women to test his restraint?  That's nothing on Brady having to take questions about his integrity from a guy who violated the cardinal sin in his profession.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
This whole thing is a bunch of Clownshoes tripping over themeless to sound the stupidest.

 
TOM TOM HEY TOM TOM HEY TOM TOM CAN YOU ANSWER HEY TOM TOM

 

[fairlee76]

Fuck "The Patriot Way".  It's dumb.  Christ.  In every other place in the world it's called "working hard". 

It sure is.  But it ain't going anywhere.  The Pats now have ads for "do your job gear" on local radio stations.  Fucking hilarious.

 

[Leather]

 
Good. That should eliminate the possibility of the refs lying about performing an inspection using the gauges. There would be witnesses who would know otherwise.

 
What?  How so?

 

[crystalline]

 
Interesting stuff, but we've seen science and math show that the decrease wouldn't be enough to lower the pressure by the 2PSI that is being reported.

He's saying that gauges themselves have variation. What increments do they measure in? Have they been calibrated? How are they affected by temperature changes? Some gauges might read differently at 70F and 30F. Was the same gauge used for all measurements? The whole topic is ridiculous but if you are going to hang your hat on a measurement not so far above noise you better have reliable equipment.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

Wilfork PC on now...
 
http://www.patriots.com/
 
Conflicting reports.. Wilfork up now.. and NFL Network not airing it.. on the Pats page though

 

[Leather]

"VINCE VINCE, Do you want to apologize for winning all these games over the years?!"

 

[Kull]

 
What?  How so?

 
The article quoted above states that ball boys bring the footballs in for inspection and then take them "immediately" out to the field. Which means they are standing there watching the inspections occur. Which also means somebody who works for Bob Kraft is in a position to know exactly what the refs did with these balls, each time.

 

[Corsi]

Wilfork PC at 11:30 EST ... NFL.com will air it live and its on the Pats home page:
 
http://www.patriots.com/

 
 hes talking now
 
http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Patriotscom-Live-Event/893e7c6e-4efe-4e7e-a3ce-35f284d043a7

 

[AardsmaToZupcic]

Brunell is turning back into a pumpkin here. 

Has anyone pointed out to Brunell yet that in his near breakdown speech he said he ALWAYS  touched game balls days before the game.
Of course only problem is that prior to 2006 (after His Jaguars career he references) only the Home team could alter the balls.

 

[Valek123]

 
I would disagree and say that all that stuff only matters if the NFL thinks it will help them make the most money out of this deal.  
The money is literally all that matters.  If the truth is more profitable and helpful to the brand/broadcasting partners then that is what we will get.  If controversy and shame is better, then that is what we will get.
 
I don't get why people keep assuming that the truth is going to matter in the end.

 
I think for the Patriots fans the truth matters more so than for anyone else honestly, having my 4,7 & 9 year old children asking me what this is all about is craziness with no facts being presented by the NFL.  For them it's potentially ruining something that should be tremendously exciting leading up to a game they have been hopeful for all season.  I get your argument that it's all about the $, which I certainly agree with for the NFL as it's clearly led by a moron who has failed at EVERY possible PR event in his history.  But coming off all the other BS thrown at the Pats there better be factual reasons this has persisted and not gotten a big STFU stamp from the NFL.

 

[Laser Show]

 
TOM TOM HEY TOM TOM HEY TOM TOM CAN YOU ANSWER HEY TOM TOM

 

[Infield Infidel]

<v&n>
 
you know, shitstorms like this are exactly why we have due process protections, presumption of innocence, etc. in the criminal justice system, so the next time you here say something like "screw the trial, just hang him by his balls," remember that.  
 
It's a little discouraging to see all the energy expended on this when there are clusterfucks going on in the world re: things that actually matter.
 
</v&n>
 
Carry on.

I like to call this a blusterfuck: something people think is a clusterfuck but is almost completely meaningless, yet people blow it vapidly out of proportion. Ideally it becomes a dusterfuck in the wind.

 

[ifmanis5]

Vince Wilfork talking now at presser on Ballghazi: "I'm done with all that, I'm just getting ready for Seattle."

 

[Byrdbrain]

Matt Hasselbeck on MFB now.
Colts knew nothing of this during the game, he only found out about it when he checked twitter on the plane home.
 
No real competitive advantage, the Pats kicked our butts.
Players had no reaction to the news when they heard it, they were disgusted at how non-competitive the game was. No one on Colts cares about this.
 
Players had no idea why the game was stopped after halftime, no clue the balls had been seized.
Even if true its not a big competitive advantage it just isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Leather]

I do wish someone on that Patriots would at least take the media to task for focusing on such a stupid thing.  

 

[PeaceSignMoose]

I do wish someone on that Patriots would at least take the media to task for focusing on such a stupid thing.  

 
Brady kind of did yesterday.

 

[Myt1]

Why is everyone asking if the refs did their jobs and tested correctly before the game? It doesn't matter. They had to be 12.5 because Brady and BB both said that's what they pump them to.

Sure it matters. Because neither of them said that they checked out these balls to see if they were at 12.5 immediately before handing them to the officials to be weighed.

There are three references to 12.5 in Brady's press conference. None of them stated that they inflate the balls to 12.5 while he's choosing them before the game or immediately before they get handed off to the referee. He says that he likes them at that size.

There are two references to 12.5 in Belichick's press conference. Neither states that the balls are inflated to 12.5 immediately before being handed off to referees before the game.

Neither of the quotes indicate that the balls actually were at 12.5 when they were given to the referees, or that the Patriots knew how much pressure they had before given to the referees.

Look, I know that you're grasping for straws now, because you started with your nonsense "it has been scientifically proven" and "All the NFL has to do is release the measurements," and now the silence on the pregame measurements is becoming deafening. So you're looking for some way to excuse that lack of evidence by making the press conference quotes do more work for you than they actually can.

I like my steaks medium rare. That doesn't mean that the steak I cooked last night wasn't slightly over or under done.

Start linking or quoting things if you want to be taken seriously. And if the things you link or quote don't back up your conclusions, well, that will help everyone else here, too.