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College Basketball Coaching Carousel

Discussion in 'College Sports' started by RedOctober3829, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Job Openings
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  2. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Jim Fox has been fired at App State. Former Davidson assistant.
     
  3. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    UNLV has fired Marvin Menzies. What could have been there.....had Chris Beard and he left after he agreed to terms for Texas Tech.
     
  4. canderson

    canderson Fomenting voting confusion and angst since 2016 Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Fire Shaka Smart, the biggest fraud in college basketball.

    Please, CDC. Pretty pleased.
     
  5. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    It’s a shame what happened to Tony Shaver at William & Mary. 18 years with track record of (relative) success and spotless reputation only to be dismissed by a 3rd year AD the spring prior to returning most of team and likely being conference favorites. Such a dirty game this is.
     
  6. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    And now some of those guys may not return.
     
  7. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Elon just let Matt Matheny go. That makes both of Bob McKillop's top assistants from the Steph Curry days are out of a job.
     
  8. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Phil Martelli and St. Joe's have parted ways.
     
  9. gingerbreadmann

    gingerbreadmann Member SoSH Member

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    16 years is a really, really long time in Division I to tread water and hope for an outlier season to strike. We have been in the position you described more than once before (2015 most notably) and repeatedly come up short. I think Shaver, as gracious of a guy as they come, would still admit he has had ample opportunity to ditch the Tourney albatross and become coach for life. But he never made it over the hump.

    As I'm sure you know, there is no way the 3rd-year AD made the decision to buy out Shaver for $1.7 million, an unprecedented move for W&M, on her own. I take that as a sign the new administration are willing to invest more in the team to take it to the next level. While I would have been happy to let next season play out, this sort of dedication to the program cannot come soon enough. Nathan Knight will still be coming back as far as I know, and if that's the case then we're still in a good spot.

    I know you are pretty involved with the game firsthand so if you have more to share then I'm all ears. But as an alum who follows closely and also is a big Shaver fan, I really think given the fact that he was fired, this was all handled quite fairly. The stuff you said in your post has been the consensus reaction among our geriatric fans online (not talking about you), with a healthy dose of thinly veiled sexism towards the new, young (and maybe even ambitious!) female AD and president. It drives me crazy. There's no reason we can't dream a little bigger without sacrificing character.
     
  10. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    No, this is some great insight. We can speculate all we want without any actual evidence but one thing we do know is that collegiate athletics performs on a corporate structure today more than ever. You have a longtime coach who is 65-years old who may or may not work well with a new (female) AD and a brand new (female) school President......with the changes in our culture from when Shaver was first hired I can easily lean toward, "probably doesn't" when you also factor in these leaders wanting to bring in their own people. There could be much more to the story as we've seen older men in other professions not adapting well to both younger and female leadership while making foolish statements......maybe stuff occurred behind the scenes we don't know but certainly possible. Either way Shaver picked the wrong year to go 14-17 regardless of the circumstances.

    Further proof that D-1 jobs are about Wins/Losses and Home Attendance gate receipts......it's all about the money and new administration coming in is always going to be looking to make their mark out of the gate. The point of my post was essentially that without changes in the school's Presidency and Athletic leadership we'd be seeing Shaver leading a very good Tribe squad into the '19-'20 season.
     
  11. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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  12. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Another case of a new AD wanting to make their mark and put their guy in the job. Vomit.
     
  13. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Reading Dana O'Neil's story on this, it is a joke how they treated Martelli.
     
  14. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I get your point, and it's correct, but this happens in just about every sport, every profession, everywhere.
     
  15. gingerbreadmann

    gingerbreadmann Member SoSH Member

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    Your point is absolutely true, and I don't think any fan (including me) would have batted an eye at giving him next year with the roster in prime position to make a run. This was a totally shocking move; our football coach of 39(!) years just retired and I honestly thought Shaver similarly would be here as long as he wanted to be.

    Regarding attendance, on gamedays the stands are about 40% students and 60% Williamsburg retirees wearing pastel sweaters and pleated khakis. That's ignoring that the way-too-big arena is over 50% empty to begin with -- a bad look if there ever was one. There are hundreds of thousands of basketball fans from Hampton Roads to Richmond, not to mention lots of talented players. To me making more of an effort to attract families and casual fans to the games (who don't have pro teams in the area) instead of continuing to cater to the local retiree crowd, who donate lots of money and love Shaver's gentlemanly nature, is crucial to keeping the program afloat well into the future and is an excellent strategy.

    Curious what about this story made you feel further in that direction? The author, who does have plenty of good pro-Shaver points and anecdotes, makes it clear that this came from above the AD. There is no doubt that they are taking a risk here but it's not like we have been bathing in success for 16 years, even the last 6 when we have had a better record relatively speaking (just 1 NIT appearance; 2 CAA finals). I think in our specific case you may be underestimating the thirst of fans (and now apparently the administration as well) to make the NCAA tournament. This is the first thing mentioned any time W&M basketball gets brought up in a national context. Every single time. Northwestern just had their moment in the sun and I don't blame the school for wanting to be the next one to get out of the club. If this move doesn't pan out, so be it but at least they went down swinging.

    Just to be clear, a lot more shoes have to drop before I am convinced whether this was a good or bad move, but I believe that the school didn't owe Shaver anything more than his buyout and ethical treatment on the way out. To me this was handled professionally and I support the greater push for success from the new powers that be. It seems like they are for the first time looking at sports as an avenue to raise the national profile of the school.

    Read that this morning and was going to post because it echoes the themes we've been discussing. Comments section has some good back and forth as well. Link (paywall): https://theathletic.com/877813/2019...nphy-deserved-much-better-from-their-schools/
     
    #15 gingerbreadmann, Mar 20, 2019 at 10:36 AM
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019 at 11:04 AM
  16. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Couple points.....

    * I’m not sure if the orders came from the first year President based on the actions of the second-year AD but approving a $1.7m at W&M surely indicates if not confirms her support. Apparently Huge (the AD) has already made sweeping changes in the programs such as raising the prices on everything, charging extra licensing fees on football tickets, and unrealistic plans for Kaplan Arena.

    * I always had great respect for Shaver from his Hampton-Sydney program when I played against them for Guilford College as they were a machine from the top of their roster to the bottom every year. I’m also sensitive to the ceiling that IMHO he’s touched recruiting at W&M as we faced a worst problem at Guilford playing in the ODAC as the only non-Virginia school when VA didn’t have a D-2 conference. If a player didn’t go to Va, Richmond, VCU, etc they ended up in the ODAC.

    I agree it’s just frustrating to see it happen to successful guys like Shaver and I’ll admit I am allowing personal feelings to get involved.
     
    #16 HomeRunBaker, Mar 20, 2019 at 4:08 PM
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019 at 4:20 PM
  17. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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  18. edoug

    edoug Member SoSH Member

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  19. MetSox1

    MetSox1 Member SoSH Member

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    I love the disucssion, on both sides, of the Shaver issue. I'm a CAA guy (Drexel) and have my ear to the ground pretty well in the Association. I think that there can be an argument for moving on from Tony Shaver, if there is a truck load of money and a new philosophy behind it. However, I don't think there is a sound argument for the timing.

    Shaver's success this year had automatically triggered a contract extension, which is why that buyout was so high. Nathan Knight is the likely preseason Player of the Year next year and the Tribe would have been picked second (likely with some first place votes) in the preseason poll. Now, they'll almost certainly lose Chase Audige, who would have been special, Justin Pierce and Matt Milon, and any incoming recruits Shaver had lined up. Those three, plus Rowley, who graduates, made up the entire surrounding team for Knight. Pending the coaching hire (and no up and comer will want a thankless, winless job, so it will be a veteran retread) this team likely will now be picked 6th or 7th. They are losing their very viable chance to dance this year, and a respected head coach and they are spending 1.7MM to do it. That's insane at this level of college athletics.

    The most likely reason that I've heard for doing that is simply that Shaver wasn't loved by Huge or the President, and Huge was worried about exactly what both of you have said - if he wins next year, he's coach for life. They don't want to be stuck to that, since, amongst other things, the AD will want to eventually put her mark on that program. She is an up and comer - or was prior to this very visible mistake.

    If he didn't win next year, and you want to spend 1.5 to buy him out, I think that makes fine sense. But throwing away one of your best teams on paper teams in the history of the school - there better be one hell of an announcement to follow, and from everyone I've talked to around the league, there's no rumblings at all of that happening.
     
  20. ernieshore

    ernieshore Member SoSH Member

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  21. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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