Chris Davis Back To O's

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,643
Pioneer Valley
I had mlbn on this morning and there was no mention of this, rather that the Os were apparently moving on from Davis with their 5/$90m offer to Cespedes. It looked as though that offer might have been intended to light a fire under Boras and Davis, but since the Orioles upped their offer from $150 to $160, then I guess they "lost." Is the offer to Cespedes off the table now?
 
Last edited:

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
This strikes me as very similar to the Ellsbury deal--same age, same length, roughly the same total, and in both cases you're paying a guy for a level of performance that he has surpassed in a couple of a seasons, but fallen well short of in others. It's a "do ya feel lucky, punk?" kind of contract.
 

MakMan44

stole corsi's dream
SoSH Member
Aug 22, 2009
19,363
I had mlbn on this morning and there was no mention of this, rather that the Os were apparently moving on from Davis with their 5/$90m offer to Cespedes. It looked as though that offer might have been intended to light a fire under Boras and Davis, but since the Orioles upped their offer from $150 to $160, then I guess they "lost." Is the offer to Cespedes off the table now?

Yes
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
21,752
Rogers Park
I'm anxious about the scale of the Price deal, but at least it was the most obvious way to improve the team. We had a clear need, and relatively few other holes to distribute those resources to. In Baltimore's shoes, I'd rather spend this kind of money on, e.g. a five-year deal to Justin Upton *and* a three-year deal for a mid-tier SP option, bumping a few guys down the depth chart, and leave Trumbo/Paredes at 1B/DH. I think that's a better team.

Maybe I'm understating what Upton will get on the market, but I like the power potential of a 28 year old who just hit 26 HR for the Padres.
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,462
Yea we can't do this anymore, not with David Price and his 7yr $217M deal in tow.

So good luck to everyone in Baseball handing out a 7yr deals.
Bit of a difference between giving this kind of a deal to someone who's been consistently somewhere between "really good" and "elite" for the last six years and someone who has been either "superstar" or "basically useless" in the last four. (That's unfair, I know - Davis was decent in 2012.)
 

MakMan44

stole corsi's dream
SoSH Member
Aug 22, 2009
19,363
Petco has actually become pretty HR neutral-friendly since they've moved the fences in. ESPN park factors has it being HR friendly, but I don't know how much I trust them. Still I've heard other people mention that about the same thing on Fangraphs, so I don't think playing half your games in Petco is as big a deal as it used to be in regards to power production.

EDIT: This isn't to say that the Davis deal is a good one, just that I don't think Upton gets a massive boost in HRs by moving anywhere else. Good player, and I agree with nvalvo's overall point.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,643
Pioneer Valley
See, they should have given Davis an opt-out after three years.

*ducks*
MLBN said over and over this morning that Duquette will not do opt-outs. (This is in no way my attempt to reinvigorate this discussion, and I know I am responding to a post that was mostly a joke.)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,935
MLBN said over and over this morning that Duquette will not do opt-outs. (This is in no way my attempt to reinvigorate this discussion, and I know I am responding to a post that was mostly a joke.)
Yes, apparently what was holding up the contract was a lack of opt-out and the Duke was adamant against that.

Wonder how much money the Duke could have saved if he included the opt-out.

Wonder also how much deferred money there is.

Good for Chris.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
21,752
Rogers Park
Petco has actually become pretty HR neutral-friendly since they've moved the fences in. ESPN park factors has it being HR friendly, but I don't know how much I trust them. Still I've heard other people mention that about the same thing on Fangraphs, so I don't think playing half your games in Petco is as big a deal as it used to be in regards to power production.

EDIT: This isn't to say that the Davis deal is a good one, just that I don't think Upton gets a massive boost in HRs by moving anywhere else. Good player, and I agree with nvalvo's overall point.
This is true. But the NL West parks are still strange. SD, SF, and LA all play down SLG (at least most evenings), while Arizona and Colorado play it up.

I guess I expect the power boost to come as much from prime age seasons than parks, although the parks help. Also, he's hit high 20s for a few years straight.
 

MakMan44

stole corsi's dream
SoSH Member
Aug 22, 2009
19,363
This is true. But the NL West parks are still strange. SD, SF, and LA all play down SLG (at least most evenings), while Arizona and Colorado play it up.

I guess I expect the power boost to come as much from prime age seasons than parks, although the parks help. Also, he's hit high 20s for a few years straight.
Yeah, I don't think Upton will hit 50 HRs, but I can see some mid-30s over the next couple years. In a vacuum, I think I'd prefer Davis but these things don't happen in a vacuum so like I said, I agree with your overall point.
 

Boggs26

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
1,152
Ashburnham, MA
Quick refresher, how do the deferred payments work with luxury tax? It's just the 161/7 correct? $23mil a year for luxury tax purposes?
 

Darnell's Son

He's a machine.
Moderator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,610
Providence, RI
Correct, it doesn't matter when the money is paid out. You just divide the total $ divided by the length of the contract.
 

PrometheusWakefield

Member
SoSH Member
May 25, 2009
10,452
Boston, MA
I had mlbn on this morning and there was no mention of this, rather that the Os were apparently moving on from Davis with their 5/$90m offer to Cespedes. It looked as though that offer might have been intended to light a fire under Boras and Davis, but since the Orioles upped their offer from $150 to $160, then I guess they "lost." Is the offer to Cespedes off the table now?
Is there any person in the world who thinks that Chris Davis is worth $70 million more than Cespedes?

I'd take Cespedes at even money.
 

MakMan44

stole corsi's dream
SoSH Member
Aug 22, 2009
19,363
Is there any person in the world who thinks that Chris Davis is worth $70 million more than Cespedes?

I'd take Cespedes at even money.
Their numbers are fairly even since Cespedes came into the league in 2012, but Davis has shown he can be the better offensive player of the two. I don't think Davis is worth $70 million more than Cespedes, but I'd take Davis over Cespedes if the contracts were equal.
 

EricFeczko

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 26, 2014
4,854
Their numbers are fairly even since Cespedes came into the league in 2012, but Davis has shown he can be the better offensive player of the two. I don't think Davis is worth $70 million more than Cespedes, but I'd take Davis over Cespedes if the contracts were equal.
While Davis has had a couple of better years than Cespedes, he has also shown tremendous variance between 2012 and 2015. Furthermore, Chris Davis has several red flags that look poorly when predicting future performance.
Normally, there is very little correlation between strikeout rate/swinging strike rate and hitting production. However, when you examine the tail of the distribution (i.e. hitters that strikeout more than 30 percent of the time and/or swing and miss at more than 15 percent of pitches), you see a disturbing trend; hitting production falls off a cliff in the early thirties. There aren't a lot of hitters in this category (i.e. excluding pitchers), so in a large sample size, the lack of correlation between hitting production and strikeout rate wouldn't be affected. The best comparisons are probably Russell Branyan, Josh Hamilton, and Ryan Howard. They are all power hitters who became ineffective by 31 or 32.
Chris Davis has an advantage in that he hasn't had major injury problems, yet; nevertheless, Cespedes may be the safer bet for performing better as a hitter over the next 5 years.

EDIT: For the record, I think this may become the worst deal made in 2015, and the deal might hamstring the Orioles resurgence.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,935
I just am unclear who was paying over 100mm who are they bidding against. Amazing.
Well, after the Duke offered 7/$150M, which as it turned out was a more than fair initial offer, it would be a slap in the face to go much below that. It's my understanding that with the deferred money, the contract shouldn't be substantially different than the initial offer; the $161M allows Boras to save some face.

If a win is worth $8M, I guessing that the Os are betting that Davis earns most of his contract in the first few years because as one commentator noted, his stats line up pretty well with Ryan Howard. And if not, well the Os can afford it as they are raking in MASN money.

And as for the other candidates, Davis was a better fit because he was LH and he could play both OF and IB at least passably. I don't think the Os are in any position to give up their draft pick unless they get a huge discount. Also, he's done some community work in Baltimore and Angelos for some reason is more apt to reward those who have been with the team than taking a chance on another player.