I like Scal much more on National podcasts or just discussing basketball more than calling the actual games. I don’t think he’s bad as a color guy, just not particularly good. Whereas his Lowe Post appearances I’ve found him to be very insightful
He has a very clear bias towards bigs.No, I think your comment and BSF's comment was appropriate; I just don't know how I feel. On the one hand, I think Scal is way above average than most color commentators - he'll point out actions that the Cs are using and will even kind of criticize players and doesn't really resort to cliches like, "They need to play harder" - but there are certainly circumstances where he hasn't treated Abby with respect (not just on the broadcasts but also on podcasts) but on the other hand, it's been going on for a while and apparently is allowed to keep going so maybe it's a schtick? I dunno.
Not to defend Scal but he's also talked about how he had to be more than a little nuts to make it to the NBA. I'm sure that's not super easy to turn off when he's still in the NBA culture calling games. Maybe he and Abby have worked it out between them. If not, I'm sure Abby has a pretty good tell-all book in her, particularly if Scal goes further than color analyst.
Agreed, thought maybe his periodic disrespecting of Abby was just me. He obviously know more hoops than anyone who didn’t play or coach, but so does most any former baller, and I think it doesn’t always come across the way he would want. on plus side he seems pretty dialed into the team and players and is willing at times to call out bad playScal knows his stuff. Can’t call myself a fan because I just don’t like how dismissive he is of people who didn’t formerly play (some of the interactions between he and Abby last year, who is as good as it gets in the industry, are representative of that), but he knows hoop
Both approaches are good and necessary. But they need balancing. You’re never gonna get that fish to climb a tree, and you’re never going to get a sum greater than its parts if you lonely focus on the parts.I think one philosophy change between Brad and Ime is that Brad's approach was often to figure out what players did well and emphasize doing that. "What, Jae Crowder? On offense you can shoot threes and drive closeouts but maybe not so much else? OK, keep doing that, that's your role in our offense." Ime is more about getting guys to play his system. It looked rough at first, but much better as they figure it out.
Edit: I don't mean this as an absolute, bright line. I'm sure Ime wants his guys doing things they can do. But Ime is maybe more focused on expanding their capabilities and fitting them into his system.
So there you have it. We have the name for a championship video if there is a need for one. "75 Flips: The Story Of The '21-22 Boston Celtics"If you had to pinpoint a moment where it started turning around and why, what would that be?
Coming off the West Coast trip, we had a hard session where I went at them pretty hard.
Where were you? Paint that picture for me a little bit.
Film session (in Boston), back off the Utah, Portland, Clippers, Lakers, Phoenix trip.
In early December, the Celtics went 1-4 against those teams and fell to 13-14.
We didn’t have a good trip, but it was more so all the things that we had built to that point. Whether we were losing some big leads, playing a certain way. And we didn’t (play well on) that trip. So I hit them with a 75 flip film session — 75 different clips.
“That’s a tuxedo call,” Udoka remembers Williams saying.
Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.I know there's a lot more to talk about when things aren't going so well but man Ime has been a revelation in this series. Maybe it's because he's really familiar with the Nets or maybe it's because of all of the lessons he's learned from Pop (or both!) but it seems like every button Ime has pushed up to now - maybe even since January 23 - has been the correct one. Props to him.
Here's a funny quote from the NY Daily Post:
Coach A has seven seasons studying as an assistant under decorated coaching legend Gregg Popovich and another season as an assistant coaching Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons on the Philadelphia 76ers.Coach B is one of the best point guards in NBA history who spent two seasons as a player development consultant with the Golden State Warriors but has no formal experience as an assistant coach anywhere. He worked with Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Kevin Durant and Draymond Green, but did not lead them on a nightly basis.The Nets hired Coach B two seasons ago and made Coach A his understudy. Now Coach A is getting his revenge. Coach A, aka Ime Udoka, just thoroughly outsmarted, out-adjusted and out-gameplanned Coach B, aka Steve Nash, to lead his team to a 2-0 first-round series lead in the playoffs.Nash does not have any answers for Udoka’s adjustments.
This was an awesome read.This is a must read piece by Quick. As good of one as I’ve read this season.
View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1513502448379437057?s=20&t=Tvg__eHJZmaezs9F5oEJLw
I think this is a real problem for the Nets. Remember Kyrie brushing the Nash hiring off, basically saying, "We don't need a coach." This is where they are now.Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.
That’s a great point. Tatum and Brown are younger, not quite as “established” as KD and Kyrie and seem way, way more coachable.Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.
Valid point and to add to that, another article made the point that Nash has been hamstrung by KI not being able to be with the team most of the year so he couldn't install anything terribly complicated (in all likelihood).Ime has undoubtedly been very good, but I wonder how much Nash's efforts are throttled by the "stature" of KD and KI. If we were 5 more years and 2 or 3 more teams into the careers of championship-winners Brown and Tatum, would Ime stil "get through" to them? It's unanswerable, and we're in the here and now, but there's no real reason why Dragic, Mills and Brown arent getting from KI and KD what Grant, PP, Theis and White get from JB and JT. The C's are playing great defense, but its like KD and KI aren't even trying to utilize the others' skills. At some level, of course, that's on Nash. But at another, it's on those who hired a green coach to coach very not-green players.
Kyrie only mentions "making it easier for" KD (maybe that was the question?). And I read "our" pull-ups and open looks as only him and KD. Again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.“Ime [an assistant with the Nets last year] knows us really well,’’ acknowledged Irving. " . . . I don’t want to put it just on Kev. It’s a team game. For myself, I take accountability. I need to make it easier for him and I can do that. It’s not going to be easy, but it can be done . . . they’re doing a great job of contesting our pull-ups and making sure we don’t get open looks.’’
Well, BRK is #1 among all playoff teams (I read) in catch-and-shoot jumpers so really only him and KD are taking pull-ups.I may be misinterpreting him but this Kyrie post-game comment stuck out to me:
Kyrie only mentions "making it easier for" KD (maybe that was the question?). And I read "our" pull-ups and open looks as only him and KD. Again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Right. Especially considering, for example, that Dragic was murdering them in the 1st half of game 2.Well, BRK is #1 among all playoff teams (I read) in catch-and-shoot jumpers so really only him and KD are taking pull-ups.
But basically yes, I agree that KI is talking only about him and KD. Which is the best way for him to talk from a Cs perspective.
Agreed, but don't be surprised for a second if Simmons does a bunch of things to really help Brooklyn.Right. Especially considering, for example, that Dragic was murdering them in the 1st half of game 2.
As for Simmons:
1) I'll believe it when I see it; and 2) no matter what his individual skills are, and no matter how sharp they are, this series has shown the importance of how players are working within whatever team structure they are attempting. Simmons cannot possibly be sharp in that area at either end of the floor. Not only hasn't he played in a year, he *wasn't even on this team* until relatively recently. And it's not like he's some sort of Steve Kerr or Dell Curry, who can sit in cold storage for 6 months and then just emerge and drain 3's all night, regardless of when he last played or with which team. Simmons, at his best, is a team lubricant, maybe like Smart in that sense. It took the Celtics 3 months to figure that out. And they had played with each other for years.
Relatedly, the comps with RWiliams's return are, as Mr. Tyson would say, ludicrisp, given the amount of, and significance of, the playing time he's already had this year with the players who are playing now. His return, especially on defense, should be close to seamless.
Nash should be terrified of the prospect of RWiliams returning. I dont think Ime Udoka has similar worries about Simmons.
Marcus Smart credited coach Ime Udoka for setting up his team to slow down the Nets star.
“Just Ime, man,” Marcus Smart said when asked how his team limited Brooklyn’s stars. “His attention to every little detail, his attention to game-planning, especially as a first-year coach, in the playoffs as a first-year head coach. I mean, you’ve gotta tip your hat off to that man. The way he schemed the game, every game plan that he had for us to put us in the right spot to succeed and be successful, so we did that. He wanted us to go in and wear ‘em down. We had the bodies, we had the guys, we had the speed, and we had the athleticism to do it. So we just have to go out there and execute his game plan and, as we’ve seen, in the first game we’ve seen it work, in the second game, and then by that third game it was like, this is it. This is our game plan and we just gotta stay with it and attack it head-on.”
I give Ime all the credit in the world but it is harsh to say Brad wasn’t tough, demanded respect, etc… You don’t get to the level of coach as Brad Stevens did without those things. Brad would never do it in the media and may have lost the players ear the last year but he was/is a very good coach.Even if the Celts lost the next round, I think an "In Praise of Ime" thread is warranted. I realize there were times early in the season people were frustrated with him, and the rotations, and his failure to give the youngsters enough playing time. But he absolutely got the Big Thing right: The Celts needed to be a team that prized assists more, not individual scoring totals, and Jaylen and Jayson had to turn into playmakers. Seeing that transformation take root was thrilling (though there was stumbling around early in the year, and a lot of turnovers and dumb passes as they tried to learn Ime's new system).
The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
Fwiw, I think that this was/is the natural progression of style and player development curve. Brad was the right coach for the young Tatum/Brown/Smart years. Tolerant teacher, encouraging boy scout leader, strong but forgiving. Never full of shit. But he was capped at a level where it would have been inauthentic for him to pivot to a more commanding presence that is needed to get to the next level for mature JB and JT. Ime can credibly come in and demand more. He too has an academic approach to coaching but fosters more of a culture of accountability. That is what those guys need now.Even if the Celts lost the next round, I think an "In Praise of Ime" thread is warranted. I realize there were times early in the season people were frustrated with him, and the rotations, and his failure to give the youngsters enough playing time. But he absolutely got the Big Thing right: The Celts needed to be a team that prized assists more, not individual scoring totals, and Jaylen and Jayson had to turn into playmakers. Seeing that transformation take root was thrilling (though there was stumbling around early in the year, and a lot of turnovers and dumb passes as they tried to learn Ime's new system).
The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
I agree an "in Praise of Ime" thread is warranted, that said...Even if the Celts lost the next round, I think an "In Praise of Ime" thread is warranted. I realize there were times early in the season people were frustrated with him, and the rotations, and his failure to give the youngsters enough playing time. But he absolutely got the Big Thing right: The Celts needed to be a team that prized assists more, not individual scoring totals, and Jaylen and Jayson had to turn into playmakers. Seeing that transformation take root was thrilling (though there was stumbling around early in the year, and a lot of turnovers and dumb passes as they tried to learn Ime's new system).
The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
^^^^this^^^^Fwiw, I think that this was/is the natural progression of style and player development curve. Brad was the right coach for the young Tatum/Brown/Smart years. Tolerant teacher, encouraging boy scout leader, strong but forgiving. Never full of shit. But he was capped at a level where it would have been inauthentic for him to pivot to a more commanding presence that is needed to get to the next level for mature JB and JT. Ime can credibly come in and demand more. He too has an academic approach to coaching but fosters more of a culture of accountability. That is what those guys need now.
I don't understand why some people cannot recognize how well Ime has done without reflexively throwing in a few parting shots at <checks notes> the guy who hired Ime.The truth is, Brad never could have done this, and I think he would readily admit that. He didn't have Ime's moral authority, ability to command deep respect, and toughness combined with love for his players. Ime called out Jaylen at one point early and I think that showed he was going to be a different kind of coach. Sometimes Brad seemed to be too passive; the team would be taking ridiculous shots, and he'd refrain from criticizing anyone. I suppose there's something to be said for that, but at some point, you have to be willing to kick someone in the ass too.
I didn't mean to seem like I was doing that, and maybe these comments came off too harsh re: Brad. To be clear, I liked Brad a lot. I thought he had a certain genius in figuring out how to get the most from a given collection of players; he would figure out a way to optimize their skills as a team. He was a master with the X's and O's. He was unfailingly gracious. He's a profoundly decent guy.But Ime's virtues can be extolled without taking a big steaming dump on his predecessor.
Edit to add: Gordon Hayward mentioned accountability under Stevens as a problem, and this Sports Illustrated article touches on some of the dysfunction ("They began to welcome the idea of a coaching change for Stevens's favoritism of players and inability to hold some accountable as well, per the report"). I know, different team last year, and everyone turns sour when they're losing, it seems, but there was a sense that Brad had "lost the room," as the saying goes, despite his considerable gifts as a coach.Fwiw, I think that this was/is the natural progression of style and player development curve. Brad was the right coach for the young Tatum/Brown/Smart years. Tolerant teacher, encouraging boy scout leader, strong but forgiving. Never full of shit. But he was capped at a level where it would have been inauthentic for him to pivot to a more commanding presence that is needed to get to the next level for mature JB and JT. Ime can credibly come in and demand more. He too has an academic approach to coaching but fosters more of a culture of accountability. That is what those guys need now.
For whatever its worth, I took your initial comments in this exact spirit.I didn't mean to seem like I was doing that, and maybe these comments came off too harsh re: Brad. To be clear, I liked Brad a lot. I thought he had a certain genius in figuring out how to get the most from a given collection of players; he would figure out a way to optimize their skills as a team. He was a master with the X's and O's. He was unfailingly gracious. He's a profoundly decent guy.
But I don't think he was on a path to turning Tatum into a non-ISO playmaker. I freely confess I don't know what conversations he was having with Tatum behind the scenes. But there was a hell of a lot of ball pounding last year, and frustrating chucking of three-point shots. The ball is just moving a lot better this year. To get there, I think you needed an Ime. (But Brad has done some genius stuff in the front office to support the team, so there's that.)
Jimbo said what I should have said:
Edit to add: Gordon Hayward mentioned accountability under Stevens as a problem, and this Sports Illustrated article touches on some of the dysfunction ("They began to welcome the idea of a coaching change for Stevens's favoritism of players and inability to hold some accountable as well, per the report"). I know, different team last year, and everyone turns sour when they're losing, it seems, but there was a sense that Brad had "lost the room," as the saying goes, despite his considerable gifts as a coach.
This cliche is ahistorical. Celtic win totals under Brad:Brad was great when getting 32 win rosters to 45 wins, but superstars usually need to be coached differently than overachievers.
The Celtics will need to go 5 wide The Bucks have 3 shot blockers (GA/BL/BP) & a tenacious/strong PG in the lane.
Just don't turn the ball over so damn much and they'll be fine
Spread them out, dribble drive, draw and kick out for step-in 3s
PP/Grant will need to shoot from the Corners (~ 50% this season)
Viz 2017-18: I will go to my grave believing that if ONE of Shane Larkin or Daniel Theis were available, they beat Cleveland. And given their matchups, would of had a non-insignficantI don't understand why some people cannot recognize how well Ime has done without reflexively throwing in a few parting shots at <checks notes> the guy who hired Ime.
Brad coached here for 8 years, during which he rebuilt a team that had been strip mined via the Brooklyn deal. He finished below .500 only twice, missed the playoffs only once, made 3 conference finals appearances. He is 4th in franchise history in coaching wins, 5th in playoff wins. He had to work through all sorts of adversity that Ime has not had:
Ime, by contrast:
- Took over a terrible because it was scrapped for parts right before he was hired
- Hit on only one of four major acquisitions during his tenure (Horford was the hit; Hayward, Irving, Walker were the misses)
- His best playoff run, 2017-2018, which ended in a game 7 loss to Clevelands in the ECF, was made with 2 of the best 3 players on the team - some might say the best two - out injured). In spite of that his team had a 4th quarter lead in game 7
- His next best playoff run, in the bubble, began with another key injury - Hayward, who was briefly looking as good as he ever had as a Celtic, hurt himself right at the start of the playoffs.
- Especially at the end, played for a GM with a very differing philosophy on team building (just look at Brad's first trade)
By no means do I want to take anything away from Ime, who has done a great job in his rookie year. But Ime's virtues can be extolled without taking a big steaming dump on his predecessor.
- Ime took over a team that coach Brad Stevens left much better than he found it.
- Ime's GM shares his team building philosophy
- Ime's Celtics playoff prospects would not like a legit contender if Tatum was out injured
Celtics coach Ime Udoka was sitting at a podium on the sixth floor of the Auerbach Center Thursday when he was asked about the importance of guard Marcus Smart, who missed Game 2 of the conference semifinals against the Bucks because of a quadriceps contusion.
“We don’t even need Marcus, honestly,” Udoka said, trying to keep a straight face under his mask.
Then he smiled and gestured to the back of the room, where Smart was waiting for his chance to speak.
“He’s back there laughing a little bit,” Udoka said. “But no, of course. I talked about it before last game, the impact he has on us in setting the tone on a night-to-night basis. And so one thing we have had unfortunately the experience of this year is guys being in and out of the lineup. And so other guys have had to step up.”
I think he also got to Smart at exactly the right time. Smart has naturally matured in basketball and (probably) non-basketball ways, but he still has tread on the tires. Sports are full of players who finally "get it" when their bodies are on the verge of saying "too bad."Ime has done a particularly good job with Smart---he has gotten him to fully buy in to a PG role offensively which I did not know for sure Marcus had in him, he's enabled Marcus to be a 'voice' defensively, and he's clearly managed through the early-season squabbles among Smart and others.
From an emotional intelligence/managing ego perspective Ime has taken on a pretty challenging profile in Smart and completely hit it out of the park. Wonderful job, and that joke illustrates the strenght of the relationhip he's built and the way he's using it
This is great. He also roasted Grant on the Sports Hub yesterday.It may not be the first time he's done it, but its the first one I've seen. Ime cracks a joke at Smart's expense:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/05/sports/brad-stevens-says-hes-hopeful-celtics-marcus-smart-will-play-game-3-vs-bucks/
This looks like the play, great defense by SGA"For good or bad, yes, he has a voice," Udoka quipped on Thursday. "He's very talkative, very opinionated. But on the floor it's what we need, we need the communication. Very vocal and we encourage that. Off the court he doesn't stop either, so we take it with a grain of salt and we'll take it if he's that vocal on the court."
Udoka was asked what Williams' most unorthodox opinion has been.
"That he should get plays ran for him like Jayson and Jaylen do," Udoka answered. "I called one play for him this year against Oklahoma City when (Shai) Gilgeous-Alexander was on him. He got a post-up and Gil just blocked him at the rim and that was pretty much his one attempt."
What makes Smart a “challenging profile”?Ime has done a particularly good job with Smart---he has gotten him to fully buy in to a PG role offensively which I did not know for sure Marcus had in him, he's enabled Marcus to be a 'voice' defensively, and he's clearly managed through the early-season squabbles among Smart and others.
From an emotional intelligence/managing ego perspective Ime has taken on a pretty challenging profile in Smart and completely hit it out of the park. Wonderful job, and that joke illustrates the strenght of the relationhip he's built and the way he's using it
I wont speak for the OP, but I think there's a general view that Smart's game and his approach to it had to be overhauled. I am likely in the minority on this, but I think Smart was mostly in the "right place" all along. It was JB and JT who needed to adjust their thinking and "catch up" to him.What makes Smart a “challenging profile”?
I don't think much changed other than Marcus Smart and the rest of the team started hitting 3s at their expected levels.My Personal Opinion....which means squat.....Ime handled Smart exactly right. Smart wanted to be a star and have a voice. IE "Be the Captain". Often without the production to be an "Alpha".
Smart had been trying to do that with Good D and ATTEMPTING to Score 20+ a game with threes.
Ime said "Hey Do it with Defense instead. Be a DEFENSIVE Alpha".
Smart bought in and has excelled now with Hellacious D and passing and letting the scoring come to him for 10-20 a night.
Seems easy but he also had to sell the rest of the team that"On the defensive end Smart is the leader/Alpha. Listen to him". That had the added benefit of also giving him some "cred" on the offensive end as the "PG". JT and JB to their credit bought in and all three have flourished and have had plenty of Ego stroke to keep everyone happy and committed.