Alan Branch suspended 4 games

Marciano490

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You got busted for some marijuana?

Is the drug policy strict liability with marijuana? Isn't there always an excuse that it was second hand? I thought a winter Olympian got off that way like 8 years ago.
 

j44thor

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The league is so dumb. Who gives a shit. Same length as PEDs.
Yeah, one makes you bigger, faster stronger. The other makes you hungry and lethargic. I can see why they would both come with the same penalty.
 

Marciano490

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Yeah, one makes you bigger, faster stronger. The other makes you hungry and lethargic. I can see why they would both come with the same penalty.
More to the point, I'm sure, one helps with pain management. Two players were literally carted off the field in tears this week. Maybe let the guys have something to ease their discomfort.
 

chief1

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Really my only worry is he comes back out shape (for him) or that BB decides he has had enough.
 

tims4wins

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Really my only worry is he comes back out shape (for him) or that BB decides he has had enough.
If it means he comes back fresh for the stretch run it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. They should be able to go 3-1. And hey at least he doesn't make the Denver trip now!
 

Dr. Gonzo

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Well, hopefully Valentine can step up.

Mike Loyko brought up bringing Markus Kuhn back in. Anyone else worth bringing in as a body that could be of use once Branch is placed on the restricted list?
 

Stitch01

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Lol at testing for a product about to be legal in MA and all, but you have to be a fng idiot to get suspended for this.

Get back and in shape for the playoffs, but this certainly isn't going to help a defense whose biggest strength is the ability to stop the run. Opportunity for Woodrow Hamilton I guess and pray Brown/Valentine stay healthy.
 

edmunddantes

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So does this mean he failed the idiot test in the pre-season, and he then continued to fail once he was put on notice that since he failed the idiot test he'd be tested throughout the season?

Or did they change the Marijuana rule to more than the one "unannounced" test in the pre-season?
 

singaporesoxfan

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I used to think it was about being dumb, but I'm starting to shift over to the "this shows just how much players need pain management" camp.
 

dcmissle

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So does this mean he failed the idiot test in the pre-season, and he then continued to fail once he was put on notice that since he failed the idiot test he'd be tested throughout the season?

Or did they change the Marijuana rule to more than the one "unannounced" test in the pre-season?
There are no unannounced tests this time of year unless prior fails have put you "in the program".

Trent Williams got suspended here a few weeks back for 4 games. He had gotten busted in 2011. Everyone assumed recent incident was in-season fail because he was "in the program." Wrong, as the last CBA wiped the slate clean for guys like Williams.

So one of two things -- 1) as with Williams, Branch had a summer fail - not showing up for test. Or 2) in the program and tested positive this season -- but I think he would have gotten more games if that had been case

I know one thing -- we have no defensive versions of Ty Nsekhe to take up the slack for 4 games.
 

dcmissle

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I used to think it was about being dumb, but I'm starting to shift over to the "this shows just how much players need pain management" camp.
The way to avoid this is to stay out of "the program". If you do that you can smoke all the weed you want from about June to the following April. The CBA prohibits testing for rec drugs during that period.

If you can't stop during the testing window -- if you have to self-medicate 3+ months after the season ends -- you probably ought to be doing something else.

The regime requires self control for 10 to 12 weeks, maximum, each year during the offseason.
 

NDame616

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On F&M (I know....) someone suggested that his OUI may have put him in "the program" and he didn't need to fail multiple times for a suspension
 

Reverend

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More to the point, I'm sure, one helps with pain management. Two players were literally carted off the field in tears this week. Maybe let the guys have something to ease their discomfort.
Apparently only if it's addictive and with a higher potential for destroying the life of the player and the family of the player, huh?

Our best D-lineman considers it more important to smoke weed than stay on the field. Great!!!
See above.

Lol at testing for a product about to be legal in MA and all, but you have to be a fng idiot to get suspended for this.
In keeping with the above, why? I mean, for a one off employment test, yeah. But we don't know why he was taking it, do we?

The League may be dumb.

It's arguable that he is so dumb he could not be deemed competent to stand trial.

You don't get to write the rules. I don't give a crap if states permit it.
I do. In all seriousness: Why don't you?

I have some familiarity with your work, and I respect the hell out of it. As such, the rules are the rules seems a bit simplistic here, so I am interested in your thoughts.

I used to think it was about being dumb, but I'm starting to shift over to the "this shows just how much players need pain management" camp.
Indeed. I mean, he's paying a lot of money for those hits, and as easy it is to say he's just dumb, we might stop an consider that he's a Belichick guy.

The way to avoid this is to stay out of "the program". If you do that you can smoke all the weed you want from about June to the following April. The CBA prohibits testing for rec drugs during that period.

If you can't stop during the testing window -- if you have to self-medicate 3+ months after the season ends -- you probably ought to be doing something else.

The regime requires self control for 10 to 12 weeks, maximum, each year during the offseason.
How callous did you mean this to sound?
 

dcmissle

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Sounds plausible. The rules in this area are complicated.

I think the League -- all leagues -- ought to be out of the business of testing for recreational drugs.
 

Bowhemian

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Sounds plausible. The rules in this area are complicated.

I think the League -- all leagues -- ought to be out of the business of testing for recreational drugs.
Many private businesses test employees for recreational drugs, even in states with legal weed. I had to do a pre-employment drug screening for my last 2 jobs. Of course they say in the policy that you can be tested at any time for whatever reason. But I have never heard of that happening.
 

dcmissle

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Many private businesses test employees for recreational drugs, even in states with legal weed. I had to do a pre-employment drug screening for my last 2 jobs. Of course they say in the policy that you can be tested at any time for whatever reason. But I have never heard of that happening.
Yes. League certainly entitled to do what it does -- players agreed to it in CBA.

That doesn't mean the regime is right IMO. I think PR is behind it all rather than concern for players.
 

InstaFace

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Indeed. I mean, he's paying [paid?] a lot of money for those hits, and as easy it is to say he's just dumb, we might stop an consider that he's a Belichick guy.
So was Chandler Jones, who went on walkabout in a drug-induced haze during a playoff week over synthetic weed.

While Aaron Hernandez could have happened to any team, it happened to a "Belichick guy". Likewise Alfonzo Dennard. Or LeGarrette Blount (LeVeon Bell weed incident).

Then you've got PEDs: Ninkovich. Rodney Harrison. Brandon Spikes. Brandon Bolden. Jermaine Cunningham. Brian Tyms (Adderall).

I will credit Belichick and his teams on a great many issues and dimensions, but when it comes to personal conduct regarding drugs, his players as a group have little difference from the league norms.
 

Marciano490

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It takes about 30 seconds to spark a joint or shoot some tren in your glute. How do you propose Belichick police that?
 

Stitch01

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In keeping with the above, why? I mean, for a one off employment test, yeah. But we don't know why he was taking it, do we?
Because as dumb as I think it is to suspend someone for marijuana use and as much disdain as I have for the rule and the league office, it is a pretty bright line collectively bargained rule and you have to test positive like four times to earn a suspension. Its not very hard as an NFL player to both smoke marijuana and not get caught/suspended for smoking marijuana.
 

RedOctober3829

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Because as dumb as I think it is to suspend someone for marijuana use and as much disdain as I have for the rule and the league office, it is a pretty bright line collectively bargained rule and you have to test positive like four times to earn a suspension. Its not very hard as an NFL player to both smoke marijuana and not get caught/suspended for smoking marijuana.
Why is it OK to smoke weed and not get punished? If I tested positive for any type of drug, I get fired. Pain management is a BS excuse. It's a conscious choice to do this crap knowing the rules for it will get you popped. Athletes have plenty of time to do whatever they want when their playing careers are over with. It only hurts their playing time, wallets, and cost their teammates and coaches who will be without him for 4 games. I have no sympathy for athletes who do this.
 

Stitch01

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Because punishing any adult for using marijuana is dumb in pretty much any context. That's a separate issue from whether a player is dumb to get suspended for smoking marijuana given the testing regime and punishment.
 

dbn

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Because punishing any adult for using marijuana is dumb in pretty much any context. That's a separate issue from whether a player is dumb to get suspended for smoking marijuana given the testing regime and punishment.
Well, except for using marijuana while driving a car or flying a plane or something. Otherwise, I agree. If this were a message board about whatever it is RedOctober3829 does for a living, and he was fired for smoking pot in the privacy of his own home, I'd post about how dumb it was to have fired him.
 

InstaFace

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Talking about whether Alan Branch is dumb for having run afoul of this system does not require disputing whether the system is dumb to begin with. I think everyone here agrees the system is dumb to begin with (if not, please speak up - there's probably a case to be made about setting an example for kids or whatever). But there can be criticism of Branch's actions without it also being support for the NFL's drug-testing system.

What clouds the issue is, we don't know how many tests he failed when, or how he got in the program. But if indeed he failed 4 tests including one during the offseason annual testing period, we can probably conclude he did dumb things (as in, counterproductive to his own interests).
 

NortheasternPJ

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What clouds the issue is, we don't know how many tests he failed when, or how he got in the program. But if indeed he failed 4 tests including one during the offseason annual testing period, we can probably conclude he did dumb things (as in, counterproductive to his own interests).
Does it really matter how he got into the program or when? He failed 4 tests for recreational drugs and as a result is out 4 games and loses over a million dollars.

I don't see how it clouds anything. He was given 3 shots and was dumb enough to get caught again. He's now a guy who's failed 4 times after being warned and faces larger suspensions going forward. How can you trust in the guy or give him any sort of contract where he's one strike away from being gone for quite awhile?
 

InstaFace

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Your certainty with regard to citing all those rumors as facts is precisely what I'm referring to as the clouded issue. The one fact we have is that he's now been suspended for 4 games for failing a marijuana test. We lack any other facts regarding his circumstances - I've googled for them and come up blank, so if you're expressing certainty I think you owe us a link.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Your certainty with regard to citing all those rumors as facts is precisely what I'm referring to as the clouded issue. The one fact we have is that he's now been suspended for 4 games for failing a marijuana test. We lack any other facts regarding his circumstances - I've googled for them and come up blank, so if you're expressing certainty I think you owe us a link.
I'm not sure what you need for circumstances outside of the rule book.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/19/6559533/nfl-new-drug-policy-details-nflpa

Marijuana discipline: The punishment for a positive test is also changing. As is the case now, a first-time offense lands the player in the substance abuse program without a suspension. The primary difference is the punishment for a second positive test: simply a two-game fine. Each additional violation receives the following progressive discipline: four-game fine, four-game suspension, 10-game suspension. A player can therefore test positive for marijuana three times without getting suspended.

Do we know when or where or how he failed tests? No, but it doesn't matter. The only way we know of to get a 4 game suspension is in the Drug Policy. Despite the NFL being completely incompetent and mishandling Domestic Violence etc. have we ever seen the NFL back down legitimacy of a drug suspension? They may change the length through appeal but this has been pretty solid.

Even worse:

» The new threshold for a positive test for marijuana will increase to 35 ng/ml from the previous limit of 15 ng/ml. There will be additional steps for players who test positive for the substance before suspension.
They over doubled the threshold to avoid catching guys who may have come in contact with it or done a small amount and he still failed.
 

InstaFace

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Do we know when or where or how he failed tests? No, but it doesn't matter. The only way we know of to get a 4 game suspension is in the Drug Policy.
LeGarrette Blount might argue the case of his own 1-game suspension, for being generally aware of and nearby to LeVeon Bell when he was busted by the cops for drugs. There are other cases of circumstantial evidence being used to impart suspensions, e.g. the Al Jazeera report PEDs case.

The 2014 drugs-of-abuse policy notes on page 16 that the NFL's Medical Director (jointly appointed by the NFL & NFLPA) may advance a player from stage 1 to stage 2 of the program even without a positive test, i.e. for "Behavioral" circumstances. This likely happened to Josh Gordon, among other examples. And the Commissioner can, in his sole discretion, enhance a suspension depending on the circumstances of a violation, which ought to make Pats (and Saints) fans nervous.

I don't think it's nearly as clear-cut as you think.
 

NortheasternPJ

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LeGarrette Blount might argue the case of his own 1-game suspension, for being generally aware of and nearby to LeVeon Bell when he was busted by the cops for drugs. There are other cases of circumstantial evidence being used to impart suspensions, e.g. the Al Jazeera report PEDs case.

The 2014 drugs-of-abuse policy notes on page 16 that the NFL's Medical Director (jointly appointed by the NFL & NFLPA) may advance a player from stage 1 to stage 2 of the program even without a positive test, i.e. for "Behavioral" circumstances. This likely happened to Josh Gordon, among other examples. And the Commissioner can, in his sole discretion, enhance a suspension depending on the circumstances of a violation, which ought to make Pats (and Saints) fans nervous.

I don't think it's nearly as clear-cut as you think.
Blount was arrested and agreed to get the charges dropped for by doing community service. There's other examples of players being arrested and getting suspended. Has Branch been arrested?

Also you're referencing Josh Gordon? Seriously? The guy who was suspended a number of times and then quit football to go into rehab voluntarily?

What scenario do you have where Brown didn't fuck up multiple times in order to get here? He had to know he was on notice in stage 1, 2 or 3. Maybe he has an excuse, but 3-4 excuses to get to this point? Maybe he just missed a few tests, which again is a fuckup.
 

InstaFace

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To take one scenario, perhaps he was placed in Stage 1 for alcohol abuse following his DWI in 2014, promoted to Stage 2 by the Medical Director for any of a variety of circumstantial reasons (which lasts for 24 months), and then failed a random in-season test after he smoked up for pain management - which I think we could agree would be preferable to him drunk-driving some more.

Or he could have already been in Stage 1 due to a failed test (allegedly dozens of players enter it every year, stay clean for the next 90 days, and then are discharged from the program), but his DWI was the precipitating circumstance to get him upgraded.

But please, keep telling me about how we know all we need to know about a player's participation in a confidential program, based on a tweet-length leak.