Aaron Hernandez: eating bugs not steaks
- Thread starter Rico Guapo
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I kind of feel a bit of MDL's point. I'm saying this largely to stop the pile on, but also because it's true.
Carruth is still awful, horrid, despicable, insert whatever here. However, first difference is that he didn't actually pull the trigger. This doesn't make him a better person or a worse person or whatever. I'm just saying, he didn't actually pull the trigger, so we don't know if he is actually the kind of person who could actually pull out a gun and put it in someone's face and end their life. Of course, we know he's the type of person that will pay someone else to do it and aid in setting up the attempt. He's vile, but he didn't actually pull the trigger.
Carruth's crime seems to be motivated by a combination of passion and greed. We can empathize with these emotions even if we think it is horrible to act on them in this way.
It is also worth noting that the facts in the Carruth case are largely settled, whereas in Hernandez's case they are not, but under the assumption they are true:
From accounts we have , Aaron Hernandez is the guy who pulls the trigger, and does it for dumb shit like talking to people he doesn't want you talking to or brushing up against him in a club. Obviously, we have to wait for all of the facts to come out. It's possible that Hernandez was a Tony Montana type and there are "business" reasons for these killings. But then that doesn't really jibe with the fact that the dude was paid a lot of money to catch a football, and wouldn't need to take such risks. And it doesn't appear that he is actually the kingpin of anything.
I don't know that we need to decide who is "worse", we don't have the means, and they are both terrible. But, if the statement is "I can kind of understand what Carruth was doing, I just don't fucking get Aaron Hernandez at all" then I think that's a fair statement.
Carruth is still awful, horrid, despicable, insert whatever here. However, first difference is that he didn't actually pull the trigger. This doesn't make him a better person or a worse person or whatever. I'm just saying, he didn't actually pull the trigger, so we don't know if he is actually the kind of person who could actually pull out a gun and put it in someone's face and end their life. Of course, we know he's the type of person that will pay someone else to do it and aid in setting up the attempt. He's vile, but he didn't actually pull the trigger.
Carruth's crime seems to be motivated by a combination of passion and greed. We can empathize with these emotions even if we think it is horrible to act on them in this way.
It is also worth noting that the facts in the Carruth case are largely settled, whereas in Hernandez's case they are not, but under the assumption they are true:
From accounts we have , Aaron Hernandez is the guy who pulls the trigger, and does it for dumb shit like talking to people he doesn't want you talking to or brushing up against him in a club. Obviously, we have to wait for all of the facts to come out. It's possible that Hernandez was a Tony Montana type and there are "business" reasons for these killings. But then that doesn't really jibe with the fact that the dude was paid a lot of money to catch a football, and wouldn't need to take such risks. And it doesn't appear that he is actually the kingpin of anything.
I don't know that we need to decide who is "worse", we don't have the means, and they are both terrible. But, if the statement is "I can kind of understand what Carruth was doing, I just don't fucking get Aaron Hernandez at all" then I think that's a fair statement.
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MentalDisabldLst
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JayMags71 said:
Yeah, that's all pretty fucked up, and to be clear, I have absolutely no sympathy for Carruth whatsoever. Still, I find Hernandez's ability to murder someone for essentially no reason as just more chilling than murdering someone you know very well, and with whom you've likely had some furious arguments. As depraved and terrible as it is, I understand the abnormal psychology of how someone could get to the point where he decided he needed to murder the fucking pregnant mother of his baby. Whereas, even most serial killers leave us with more of a sensible explanation for why they kill than Hernandez did. Basically, any one of us could have been the guy leaving the bar who Hernandez decided he didn't like the face of, and gotten blown away in our car... Of course, it's all moot, we're just debating which particular circle of hell these guys are going to burn in. A fool's game, I suppose.
Also: I didn't realize I needed to qualify any post about a murderer with "by the way, murder is bad." But I'll happily go on the record that, in case there was any doubt, I am opposed to murder.
edit:
Yeah, that's all I was going for. Carruth's story isn't breaking new ground in the annals of crime, but for me, Hernandez plumbs new depths in the degree to which I can be terrified of what another human being is capable of.
MentalDisabldLst said:
"Random Stranger" violence is certainly the most frightening type of violence out there because you can't predict it or defend against it. That said, it's much more rare than violence between acquaintances, friends, and family. This is because our emotions are more easily engaged by situations with which we're familiar - people tend to become jealous, angry, irritated, obsessed, or feel betrayed by those they know, not some stranger at a bar. (Odin Lloyd was killed by someone he knew - perhaps for nothing, but the point stands.)
However, the media and the popular narratives of our time tend to depict "stranger violence" prominently, and there's a whole industry (NRA is part of it) which centers on defending ourselves from random violence from someone we don't know.
If anyone wants to run the numbers, I'll bet that more people died in the US last year at the hands of someone they know (for a variety of stupid reasons), rather than at the hands of a stranger who decided to kill them. I'd also bet that more people were battered by someone they know than by a stranger.
Year of Yaz said:
Not lack of intelligence, certainly -- PCP or just the basic serial killer complete lack of empathy or both. At some point I read a piece about the difference in brain chemical composition of those who can commit murder without flinching. There is something particularly chilling about that sort of crime simply because it's so inhuman or even ahuman (though I don't think that's a word). Obviously, the fun of an internet pile-on to the side, it's a fairly ungenerous reading to imply that MDL was expressing sympathy for Carruth (certain posters here love nothing better than reducing things to such simplicities as a way of baiting). Impulses of hateful greed that can lead to killings are, it seems to me, inherently human. As horrific as Carruth is, his crime comes out of a more recognizable impulse than AH's.
Probably don't know enough about what was actually going on in AH's head to really make that general of a pop-diagnosis, but if one assumes those differences in motivations then I do think one can find one more chilling than the other. And it goes without saying that to the victims it doesn't matter a whit.
No one said he had sympathy for him, just that he wrote something categorically stupid. Which he did.
Go read what he wrote again. Don't think the reactions were the reductive ones, dude.
Assuming no drug use or not being a psychopath a murder requires the willingness to kill and an analysis of the cost/benefit of doing so. Carruth wanted to avoid child support and figured he could getaway with it. O.J. had the "If I can't have her no one can" rage and didn't realize that even had he left no evidence he would be the only possible suspect which alone would have ruined his reputation and career. AH is unusual in there was no benefit and little attempt to avoid being caught. He acted like a gang member living in poverty that believed he had nothing to lose.Tony C said:
I'm still stuck on details of the South End killings.
The allegation is that Hernandez had some sort of triggering episode involving 1-5 guys at the club. Then he followed a car with 5 people in it, shot and killed two leaving one injured and alive, and letting two get away by running out of the car. Not to mention there is security video of the car driving around the area.
And he was just charged yesterday?
How do three guys witness your car and the shooting, and presumably have some idea what went down at a club where a local celebrity was present, and never suspect that celebrity was the shooter?
The allegation is that Hernandez had some sort of triggering episode involving 1-5 guys at the club. Then he followed a car with 5 people in it, shot and killed two leaving one injured and alive, and letting two get away by running out of the car. Not to mention there is security video of the car driving around the area.
And he was just charged yesterday?
How do three guys witness your car and the shooting, and presumably have some idea what went down at a club where a local celebrity was present, and never suspect that celebrity was the shooter?
They knew the type of car, but it was a rental car that AH then stashed in a garage and never moved. They also said it was a Hispanic male, I believe, but didn't know much else.
Exactly.Year of Yaz said:
There is little doubt that a fair number of NFL players are not in the gang life only because of their unusual, enormous talent.
Listen to Marcellus Wiley about this some time. He grew up in Compton. His uncle was a gang leader. Nonetheless, the uncle and many others shielded him from the bad stuff because they saw his way out. Wiley was valedictorian of his HS class, went to Columbia and then to the NFL.
AH got out but jumped back in. Or, while making it, never got out.
If I have the chronology right, the alleged double murders came just days before AH signed his contract extension with the Pats, almost tearfully thanking Kraft and saying that he would never let the Patriots down.
crystalline said:
We woke up that night, my wife saying "I'm from Cali I know what gun shots sound like". I told her she was crazy, that there would be sirens if there was gun shots. I never heard the sirens - but woke up with people talking at D&D. It was crazy.
How much does street cred cost? About 45 million and 90 years.
Yes he now his young gang bangers potentially idolizing him for the wrong reasons instead of being a positive influence. Could have been a transcendent, hall of fame talent. He instead chose the thug life. What a waste
Yes he now his young gang bangers potentially idolizing him for the wrong reasons instead of being a positive influence. Could have been a transcendent, hall of fame talent. He instead chose the thug life. What a waste
DrewDawg said:
In his position? He absolutely might be the first, which is what makes the entire thing stupefying.
But by all means, keep trying to pile on.
Adrian's Dome said:
Huh?
The quote I responded to was at 10:21. I responded 12 minutes later and was the first response. That's not a pile on.
If MDL was piled on earlier in the thread about a different post, that's probably on him. He also doesn't need your help. But I'll award you 1 internet point for trying.
The lack of comprehension of MDL's point and subsequent pile-on started far earlier, and you responded to him explaining himself with even more incomprehension of what he was trying to say.
(edit: And 40 fucking minutes before that, you directly addressed the pile on and stated it was necessary. Holy shit.)
Good on you. I'll take that point.
(edit: And 40 fucking minutes before that, you directly addressed the pile on and stated it was necessary. Holy shit.)
Good on you. I'll take that point.
The MDL pile on was absolutely deserved, and for a number of reasons. First, it was (I think) an attempt at humor, and that it failed so spectacularly is the first strike against the comment, no matter the content. Failed jokes are often targets of derisive commentary here. Secondly, it demonstrated a really stunning lack of judgement (one should probably never suggest they understand/sympathize with the motivations of a murderer, especially one that attempts to murder kill their girlfriend and unborn child). Thirdly, I think there's a decent argument to be made that killing someone with whom you were socially and romantically involved is far more disturbing than killing a virtual stranger. Both are extraordinarily disturbing, but to me there is an extra degree of hatred, anger and psychopathy to engineer the execution of someone you were on a date with earlier that night. Others may feel the same about murdering a stranger who hasn't really aggrieved you in any way.
However, as SJH points out, Carruth wasn't the person who actually killed his girlfriend, while Hernandez is (allegedly) personally responsible for the deaths of at least two, maybe three, people. So, on that point alone, Hernandez wins the "Worst Murderer to Ever Play Major American Sports" award. Congratulations, Aaron! For your work in this arena, you will receive a lifetime of incarceration with no hope of ever getting out!!
Rae Carruth, btw, will be back on the streets in about four years. Hide yo' kids, hide yo' wife.
However, as SJH points out, Carruth wasn't the person who actually killed his girlfriend, while Hernandez is (allegedly) personally responsible for the deaths of at least two, maybe three, people. So, on that point alone, Hernandez wins the "Worst Murderer to Ever Play Major American Sports" award. Congratulations, Aaron! For your work in this arena, you will receive a lifetime of incarceration with no hope of ever getting out!!
Rae Carruth, btw, will be back on the streets in about four years. Hide yo' kids, hide yo' wife.
Adrian's Dome said:
FWIW, you seem more offended about this than MDL.
As to your other point, there was an earlier pile-on, to which I responded. However you didn't quote that post of mine. You quoted one that directly responded to another point MDL had just made literally minutes earlier. That's what I was referring to. If your issue was with the earlier pile on, quote one of those posts.
Or don't. I don't much care. You've already got your internet point.
JayMags71 said:
I didn't know this story. Man, the things humans do to one another. But, in the good news department, this SI story on Chancellor and his grandmother is fantastic. Makes me want to be a better person.
Just so much resilience in this world sometimes.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/thomas_lake/09/07/rae-carruth/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2
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MentalDisabldLst
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gaelgirl said:
It was not a joking post, except insofar as debating who deserves the title of "the worst murderer in sports" is a subject that requires a certain amount of black humor. Plus, Chris Rock makes points way better than I do.
That people disagree with my post or rankings (as you do) is fine. That people are so afraid of confronting uncomfortable things that they see any attempt to compare criminals (or to see in their actions fundamentally human impulses that are corrupted or taken to extremes) as "sympathizing" with them, says more about the pearl-clutcher's attitudes towards criminals and crime than it does about my supposed lack of "judgement".
I've thankfully never read about a murderer and thought "there but for the grace of God go I", but I have certainly thought that about many lesser felons. For example: If I were an entrepreneurial, charismatic kid growing up poor in an inner-city ghetto, dealing drugs might seem like a whole lot better, all things considered, than any alternative. Likewise, I've often read the accounts of people with mental disturbances, and felt blessed that I don't have to go through life trying to deal with that special kind of hell. But no matter - the guy who said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" probably had a "stunning lack of judgement" too, and certainly never could have stood for public office.
Did you just compare yourself to Jesus? That's the best double-down on a statement one can make, I think. Well done.
The D.A.'s offense doesn't give detail on what it's looking for, but TMZ surmises that Hernandez's may have specific tattoos memorializing the drive-by shootings of Daniel Abreu and Safiro Furtado on July 16, 2012—the less-obvious equivalent of a teardrop tattoo, as it were.
http://deadspin.com/aaron-hernandezs-tattoos-may-contain-clues-to-his-alleg-1579607033?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
What an idiot.
http://deadspin.com/aaron-hernandezs-tattoos-may-contain-clues-to-his-alleg-1579607033?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
What an idiot.
dcmissle said:
Bristol, CT is not Compton or Hartford. It's not even New Britain. It is a suburban place sort of middle class town. If it were a fast food restaurant, it would be Subway. It has a low crime rate.
More than trouble finding Aaron Hernandez - he went out and found trouble.
This presumes the guys in the car follow the NFL. If you knew nothing about football or the Patriots, you would have no idea who Aaron Hernandez was, even if he shot you in the face.crystalline said:
soxhop411 said:
It is airing on ESPN now, and actually it's even worse than that makes it sound, the victims seemed to have no idea he was pissed about being bumped into until he followed their car, pulled up alongside and emptied his gun into their car.
Yeah, that was good. Here is the quick Globe report:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/28/aaron-hernandez-arraigned-murder-two-men-south-end/uucfpab9boQK3Jc2qWBlYK/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/28/aaron-hernandez-arraigned-murder-two-men-south-end/uucfpab9boQK3Jc2qWBlYK/story.html?s_campaign=sm_tw
Sadly, lives are ended over stupid shit like this every single day. If you don't react to every slight, however small or unintentional, you're not a "real man."jon abbey said:
The prosecution was quoting what Hernandez allegedly said right after shooting into the car, meaning that Hernandez's friend must be testifying against him.
“I think I got one in the head and one in the chest,” he allegedly told a friend riding with him, the prosecutor said.
“I think I got one in the head and one in the chest,” he allegedly told a friend riding with him, the prosecutor said.
uncannymanny said:
Right, but usually when that happens, it is more of a direct confrontation right then. This sounds like the victims had no idea they'd even pissed him off before he pulled up alongside their car later that night and started shooting.
The prosecutor is making it sound like he killed these guys because he was disrespected. Also sounded like he was on angel dust at the time.
I remember when this all started. Some of us thought or speculated that this was some sort of large criminal enterprise gone bad. Large weight drug deals, gun trafficking, in bed with some really bad people, shit got out of control and AH was linked to some nasty shit others were probably more responsible for. Crazy how this is playing out. A guy spills a drink on you in a club, you kill him and his buddy, and then you spend the next year intimidating/killing the witnesses who could jeopardize your NFL life.
Stupid doesn't do it justice. He's a poser. Gang mentality without the gang skills. Gang crimes don't get solved because no one wants to get smoked. Problem for AH is none of these guys knew anything about gang life.
Stupid doesn't do it justice. He's a poser. Gang mentality without the gang skills. Gang crimes don't get solved because no one wants to get smoked. Problem for AH is none of these guys knew anything about gang life.
On the night of Sunday, July 15, 2012, at The Cure nightclub, Daniel Abreu accidentally bumped into Hernandez, who was standing at the edge of the dance floor, causing Hernandez’s drink to partially spill, the prosecutor said.soxhop411 said:
jon abbey said:
Good God. What a fucking psychopath. That and the PCP must've had him looking for people to shoot. Jesus.
Ouch:
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 17s
DA says the state has the murder weapon from July 2012, that they allege Aaron Hernandez fired.
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 17s
DA says the state has the murder weapon from July 2012, that they allege Aaron Hernandez fired.
fairlee76 said:
I hear that. The first big college party I went to, I had someone nudge me while I was holding a wet cup and I spilled my beer all over some hockey player's lap. I was apoplectic and worried and he just gave me a cool, "Hey, no worries man--these things happen." That was my first HolyShitILoveCollegeAndI'mInTheRightPlace Moment and I remember it to this day.
Imagine living your whole life worrying about high school bs that should have ended in high school?
If he ever gets out of solitary, I wonder how many other inmates are gonna spill his drink just for shits and giggles?
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