Possibly. I wish he controlled Girardi a bit more during the postseason this season.I'd say Cashman's #1 priority was getting Girardi out of the dug-out and putting someone in his place whom he could control.
Possibly. I wish he controlled Girardi a bit more during the postseason this season.I'd say Cashman's #1 priority was getting Girardi out of the dug-out and putting someone in his place whom he could control.
Not really, and that's partly why he was able to succeed. It's still an important skill for a manager in New York. I don't think it was a smokescreen, but I don't think it was the #1 priority either.Wedge has been out of the game for what 4-5 years. And yes there is a correaltion between age and experience and Cashman, who could have hired anyone he wanted, opted for youth/inexperience.
IMO Cashman's search was more about who he could successively communicate with and influence, rather than choosing a candidate with strong opinions and experiences about managing a baseball team or any organization. The pablum we heard about the manager's need to handle the press/public relations was just a smoke screen. Did Girardi (who was very articualate) have a problem with the press?
He got cranky occasionally in postgame press conferences, although honestly I don't know how someone in that job being asked often idiotic questions after tough losses wouldn't lose their cool sometimes, but that's one of many reasons why I am not a manager.Did Girardi (who was very articulate) have a problem with the press? Not that I was aware of.
Cashman did not want to see the Yankees win with Girardi in '18, or he may have been stuck with him for another 5 years. This was about Cashman's wanting greater influence in the dug-out and wielding his power to guarantee it. But in so doing took on a fair degree of risk.Not really, and that's partly why he was able to succeed. It's still an important skill for a manager in New York. I don't think it was a smokescreen, but I don't think it was the #1 priority either.
No, the point is that his contract was up now, he didn't get fired, he just didn't get rehired. If he were to have been rehired, it would have had to have been at least a 3 year deal at big money and that was what Cashman didn't want to commit to. It seems like he would have probably been fired if his contract hadn't been expiring, but we'll never know for sure.Cashman did not want to see the Yankees win with Girardi in '18, or he may have been stuck with him for another 5 years.
Even if we accept that premise (I do not, I agree with Jon), I think being being "forced" to sign Joe to a 3-5 yr deal would have been a small price to pay for a championship in 2017.Cashman did not want to see the Yankees win with Girardi in '18, or he may have been stuck with him for another 5 years. This was about Cashman's wanting greater influence in the dug-out and wielding his power to guarantee it. But in so doing took on a fair degree of risk.
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I thought your post was fine Jon Abbey doesn't own mfy fandom at SoSH (nothing personal, JA).I'll do my best.
The point is Cashman did not want Girardi to manage the Yankees, a team on the cusp of deep post-season runs, to manage the Yankees any longer. He wanted to end the association, and bring in someone he could control, so he did.No, the point is that his contract was up now, he didn't get fired, he just didn't get rehired. If he were to have been rehired, it would have had to have been at least a 3 year deal at big money and that was what Cashman didn't want to commit to. It seems like he would have probably been fired if his contract hadn't been expiring, but we'll never know for sure.
Appreciated, but it was good advice nonetheless.I thought your post was fine Jon Abbey doesn't own mfy fandom at SoSH (nothing personal, JA).
You don’t know this and your persistence on this point is kind of frustrating. Cashman cited, quite bluntly, why he felt that he needed a change. To assume a GM who has had 1 managerial change in 20 years was forcing out a manager to take control of the dugout is quite a leap.The point is Cashman did not want Girardi to manage the Yankees, a team on the cusp of deep post-season runs, to manage the Yankees any longer. He wanted to end the association, and bring in someone he could control, so he did.
Its the way I read the tea leaves. I though Girardi did a reasonably good job last year, and got a lot more out of that team than most thought probable. If you disagree with my conclusions thats fine.You don’t know this and your persistence on this point is kind of frustrating. Cashman cited, quite bluntly, why he felt that he needed a change. To assume a GM who has had 1 managerial change in 20 years was forcing out a manager to take control of the dugout is quite a leap.
He did a fine job, and has for the past ten years. It strikes me (and has many others who have vocalized it before) that while Cashman felt Girardi was a fine fit for the Derek Jeter/Mark Teixiera/CC era Yankees, he felt he was not the best fit for the Aaron Judge/Gary Sanchez/Gleyber Torres Yankees.Its the way I read the tea leaves. I though Girardi did a reasonably good job last year, and got a lot more out of that team than most thought probable. If you disagree with my conclusions thats fine.
I would just say “someone different” for now instead of “someone he could control”, but I think the press conference when they announce Boone will presumably give us more insight into the whole transition.The point is Cashman did not want Girardi to manage the Yankees, a team on the cusp of deep post-season runs, to manage the Yankees any longer. He wanted to end the association, and bring in someone he could control, so he did.
And conversely, it's the weight your putting behind your stance I'm taking issue with, as opposed to the premise. Yes, they're both new managers; but ignoring the work Cora has actually done strikes me as flippant, when the counter has worked in a studio since he retired. That's really all I'm saying and no, it's not about laundry. Do I know how he manages a bullpen or a clubhouse etc etc? No, but he's at least been involved in it.It's the weight being put into your valid points I take issue with, not the points themselves. You're not finding Yankee fans here saying they prefer Boone to Cora, are you? The argument I'm making is that 4 months before this guy ever makes an executive decision for a major league ball club, Sox fans are taking comfort that Cora checks a couple boxes that many managers who they've hated and loved before him also checked. By all measures, Cora is well-respected and likable and almost certainly a great improvement over Farrel but regarding Boone's lack of managerial experience I don't really know how to judge how that manifests itself on the field. Do you know what Cora's bullpen management skills are like? How he builds a lineup? What about how he'll handle underperforming young kids? I've watched "the best managers in the game" with decades of experience screw those things up. What is abundantly clear and becoming clearer as more Boone testimonials are being written is that he's well-respected in and out of the game and his only red flag is not having managed a club before. The LOL reaction posts are always expected but I'd hold off on them before proclaiming victory.
If you don’t want it come across as Sox vs Yankees then stop saying Boone is the mailroom guy getting promoted to VP.And conversely, it's the weight your putting behind your stance I'm taking issue with, as opposed to the premise. Yes, they're both new managers; but ignoring the work Cora has actually done strikes me as flippant, when the counter has worked in a studio since he retired. That's really all I'm saying and no, it's not about laundry. Do I know how he manages a bullpen or a clubhouse etc etc? No, but he's at least been involved in it.
I'l stop now, because it's coming off as Sox vs. Yankees, when it was really just a contention on logic - we do know some things about Cora in the setting he's now taking on; while we know Boone was nice to Buster Olney. It strikes me as kind of foolish to say they are equally unknown entities. And while you are absolutely correct that the career ladder isn't as defined as it once was, you also don't hire the mailroom guy to be VP of sales because he's cordial. He may get to skip a few rungs based on some things you see in him, but you don't hand him a corner office.
Let's hope we both made good hires, it'd be fun to hate the Yankees again.
Hopefully the novelty of that will wear off because even I will get sick of that (and it has a lot more relevance than to Sox fans, so I'm sure YES and ESPN, and FOX will play it for EVERY Yankee game to start the season).I liked Boone alot as an ESPN analyst, and I think he's a very good choice for the MFY. But, now we'll have to watch a replay of that fucking home run before every Sox/MFY game.
I don't really think anyone wants to see the 2003 clip anymore. 2004 mitigates the joy I get from 2003. I remember 2003 like yesterday but it really doesn't matter because the Yankees lost that WS anyway.Yeah, I actually think making him the manager rips the band-aid off the 2003 clip for Sox fans. It'll be present the first three series and tail off fast in usage the next couple years...unless the teams play in the postseason together.
How is that in any way shape or form partisan to Sox/Yanks? It’s an observation I’d make on Ventura, Matheny or any other guy that got a managerial job with zero experience and I’d say it about Varitek had the Mariners hired him last year or the Sox did now, even though he at least had some coaching and front office experience. Stop being so friggin sensitive, man. If you are happy with the hire, good on ya. You yourself have admitted it’s a pretty big risk. Let’s not pretend it’s on par with Cora or that I’m pointing that out only because I’m a Sox fan.If you don’t want it come across as Sox vs Yankees then stop saying Boone is the mailroom guy getting promoted to VP.
Well if it's not partisan, it's ridiculous.How is that in any way shape or form partisan to Sox/Yanks? It’s an observation I’d make on Ventura, Matheny or any other guy that got a managerial job with zero experience
Cora has a year of bench coach experience, which is important, and gives him a demonstrable edge on Boone. But he's not Joe Maddon. Let's not pretend the difference between Cora and Boone is really that vast.Let’s not pretend it’s on par with Cora or that I’m pointing that out only because I’m a Sox fan.
It’s not partisan, I never claimed he was Joe Maddon and I never claimed it was vast. The original poster claimed they were basically the same in his original post. To suggest that there is in fact no difference is what’s ridiculous. There is indeed a marked difference in their resumes, which may or may not prove to matter. But keep on keepin on man.Well if it's not partisan, it's ridiculous.
Cora has a year of bench coach experience, which is important, and gives him a demonstrable edge on Boone. But he's not Joe Maddon. Let's not pretend the difference between Cora and Boone is really that vast.
I don't think anyone claimed they were "the same." My posts have been a response to comments from Sox fans who said (and I quote):It’s not partisan, I never claimed he was Joe Maddon and I never claimed it was vast. The original poster claimed they were basically the same in his original post. To suggest that there is in fact no difference is what’s ridiculous. There is indeed a marked difference in their resumes, which may or may not prove to matter. But keep on keepin on man.
Both of your posts addressed to me have been a bit rude, both telling me how I should behave when I have done nothing inappropriate. I've tried responding politely, but as a new user here (who has read the forums with interest-- on an almost daily basis-- for over 10 years) this isn't exactly making me feel welcome.You can’t compare Boone and Cora, neither have done this job before. In a couple of years, we’ll have a way better idea but right now you two are going back and forth endlessly because neither of you wants to give the other the last pointless word. Please stop.
Heh, I missed this before, a Rays fan chiming in with some well-needed perspective for the rest of us.I hate all of this and all of you because I think Boone and Cora are both going to eventually be much better than the tin man and the scarecrow that they are replacing.
I thought it was fun reading the back-and-forth! Only on SOSH can you get diehards arguing unproven managers' credentials in December. I used to care that much when I was 35. It was a very good year.Heh, I missed this before, a Rays fan chiming in with some well-needed perspective for the rest of us.
This is an old article on managerial tenure in MLB. Since 1977 the MLB average is 450.9 games which works out to be around 2.8 years. I don’t know how much you can read into that figure but, it seems to me, a three year contract would be about right for a new manager.So Boone was signed to a 3 year deal with an option.
Nevin is worse than that, they were high school teammates.Second coaching hire by Boone who played with him. That part scares me a little.