2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

HomeRunBaker

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So in the modern era (past 20 years or so), you're looking at Nash... who was a terrible coach, Fisher.... terrible coach, Kerr... very good coach, Kidd... not a good coach (but keeps getting jobs I guess)....Mark Jackson.... not a good coach, Vinny Del Negro... not great, McHale... (short term hard to judge but probably on balance... not good?).

I'd say overall the success rate on these guys has been pretty low.
That group plus 3 first year COY’s is probably consistent with assistant coach success where most of them are fired within 3-4 years. It’s NBA Head Coaching….if you are a strong leader, know the NBA game, hire competent assistants and have good players you are most likely going to succeed. Redick checks the boxes that he can control.
 

InstaFace

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There’s a ton of examples. I figured back row Joe was simple enough for you given you literally talked about credentials then claim to not care about credentials.
"back row Joe" had credentials enough. Really anyone who's been an NBA assistant for a year has credentials enough, if he interviews well then god bless. Go back to the threads here when he was given the job, go back to the start of the current Coach Joe Mazzulla thread when he was given the permanent job. We basically all agreed, not without some trepidation, that if Danny and Brad and Wyc thought he was ready, and thought they might have a prodigy on their hands, that we would trust them on that. Myself among them. But at the point he was given the big chair, Joe Mazzulla had been a professional coach of basketball for 11 years. Most NBA assistants have been coaches at other levels for at least a few years before joining a pro team's staff. Redick has been a professional coach for 0 years. You don't think that's a bit of a difference?
 

the moops

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So in the modern era (past 20 years or so), you're looking at Nash... who was a terrible coach, Fisher.... terrible coach, Kerr... very good coach, Kidd... not a good coach (but keeps getting jobs I guess)....Mark Jackson.... not a good coach, Vinny Del Negro... not great, McHale... (short term hard to judge but probably on balance... not good?).

I'd say overall the success rate on these guys has been pretty low.
Sidenote

If Steve Kerr finishes with 45 or fewer wins next year (and coaches all 82 games), Larry Bird will hold the best winning percentage among players turned coaches with no coaching experience
 

Red Averages

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Apr 20, 2003
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I feel like you guys are agreeing past each other..
Not really. He stated teams never hire people without experience which actually does happen, many names were already thrown out in this thread. “I wouldn’t think it was possible” despite probably 5-10 examples of it. Then again speaking in certain terms about things that are not true happens frequently for him.
 

InstaFace

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Not really. He stated teams never hire people without experience which actually does happen, many names were already thrown out in this thread. “I wouldn’t think it was possible” despite probably 5-10 examples of it.
My exact words were "I wouldn't think it possible - or advisable, at any rate - to hire a coach who has never coached college or the pros." Most people would understand that phrasing to not be an assertion that it has never ever happened, but rather that I'd be surprised. And wouldn't ya know, it appears I'm surprised. Great! That's why I'm here! We can then get on with a conversation about the exceptions and how they did, which is what HRB and CD proceeded to do. A little learning, a little ad-hoc collection of data points, a little context...

or we could... do whatever this is:

Then again speaking in certain terms about things that are not true happens frequently for him.
This is now the third time you've gone out of your way to be a dick, specifically to me, on different threads spanning a week. How many more threads are you going to bring your personal distaste into, instead of just blocking me and getting on with discussions on the site? It may not be tiresome to you - at this point, I have to assume you enjoy it - but it must be getting tiresome for everyone else to read.

This board is notable for how collegial it is, even by SoSH standards. The Port Cellar Dwellers have strong opinions, but a lot of warmth and respect for each other permeates the discussion among the regulars. Coming in here being a dick and making personal remarks as if you were in a V&N pissing contest is really the opposite of the vibe, and you don't have to just take it from me. So if reading the room that way is impossible for you in my case, may I encourage you to click on my username and just hit "Ignore", a mere two mouse clicks, and then the rest of us can carry on without me further disturbing your sensibilities.
 

Red Averages

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You could also just stop being wrong and then writing long multi paragraph responses that clog up threads when it’s pointed out you are wrong. It’s not that hard.
 

m0ckduck

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I am on the same wavelength. Usually these things don't bother me at all - but come the hell on. No GM in the NBA would choose Brunson over Tatum for their team. It's totally absurd. Brunson is not 5, let's pump the brakes in New York man.
I'll stick my neck out: I like the approach taken by Michael Pina, Zach Lowe and others of putting Brunson 5th on the MVP ballot ahead of Tatum while giving Tatum the All-NBA first team nod over Brunson. There's a subtle difference between these awards that this approach recognizes. Tatum is objectively a better player than Brunson, but Brunson's season has better fulfilled the nebulous and subjective adjective "valuable" in the sense that he's carried an enormous load on a team that's exceeded expectations in the face of injuries, blah blah. There's always an element of "best narrative" to MVP voting. I'm ok with it.
 

InstaFace

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I'll stick my neck out: I like the approach taken by Michael Pina, Zach Lowe and others of putting Brunson 5th on the MVP ballot ahead of Tatum while giving Tatum the All-NBA first team nod over Brunson. There's a subtle difference between these awards that this approach recognizes. Tatum is objectively a better player than Brunson, but Brunson's season has better fulfilled the nebulous and subjective adjective "valuable" in the sense that he's carried an enormous load on a team that's exceeded expectations in the face of injuries, blah blah. There's always an element of "best narrative" to MVP voting. I'm ok with it.
That's a valid perspective in my eyes. I think baseball - the writers and the fans - have gone too far into trying to quantify their way into awards being some sort of objective thing, that there's an equation and you just get your answer and move on. As much as I like right answers (perhaps not according to some!), that does elide a lot of what makes sports fun, a lot of why people watch, a lot of why the XKCD "weighted random number generator" cartoon is only half true - narrative, just as you say. Perhaps baseball is less of a narrative sport, though it used to be one when it dominated the zeitgeist. But basketball really does lend itself to personalities and styles and drama and story arcs in a way that exceeds every other sport. And if its biggest proponents - the people paid to write about it - decide that that's the best way to celebrate their sport and honor players, to honor not the people nor the player but to honor the narrative, effectively, then I have a hard time calling them "wrong".

I do think the "Tatum has shown it within him to raise a team of good players into a superteam" narrative has been underrated and under-played this season, but I have no problem at all with a narrative based lens on the question of awards.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'll stick my neck out: I like the approach taken by Michael Pina, Zach Lowe and others of putting Brunson 5th on the MVP ballot ahead of Tatum while giving Tatum the All-NBA first team nod over Brunson. There's a subtle difference between these awards that this approach recognizes. Tatum is objectively a better player than Brunson, but Brunson's season has better fulfilled the nebulous and subjective adjective "valuable" in the sense that he's carried an enormous load on a team that's exceeded expectations in the face of injuries, blah blah. There's always an element of "best narrative" to MVP voting. I'm ok with it.
Many people don’t take into account that these are regular season awards and not something that ones playoff performance should be factored. Brunson will always have a capped ceiling in the playoffs due to his physical profile but that isn’t what these regular season awards are all about and he deserves recognition for that. These two seasons play much differently.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I'm torn whether 9.8% for Kobe or 0.8% for Pierce is the more insane result from that poll.
 

Ed Hillel

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Pierce is a huge troll, in the vein of his new mentor, Skip. I think most of the shit he says he doesn't actually believe.
 

nattysez

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Assuming NBC's plan is to move most NBA games to Peacock, the NBA would be crazy to accept this, no? Making games less accessible seems like a bad idea.
 

HomeRunBaker

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"Devin Booker wants to be in New York. That's what I'm being told. He might deny it, I haven't spoken to him. I'm just telling you, the scuttlebutt in the NBA circles is that brother wanna be in New York."

Stephen A. Smith

(via First Take)
 

Ed Hillel

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Don’t think he’s a good fit for them tbh, so if he ends up their big FA acquisition, I can live with it. They are scarier with Durant imo. They need offensive wing scoring, Brunson has the Booker role covered.
 

astrozombie

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Sep 12, 2022
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"[Devin Booker/Tatum/LeBron/Wembanyama/Anthony Edwards/KD/Steph Curry/Giannis/Dame/Kawhi/Jokic/Doncic/SGA/Embiid/AD/Zion/Donovan Mitchell/every player in the top 50] wants to be in New York. That's what I'm being told. He might deny it, I haven't spoken to him. I'm just telling you, the scuttlebutt in the NBA circles is that brother wanna be in New York."

Stephen A. Smith, attempting to will his wishes into existence
 

the moops

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Don’t think he’s a good fit for them tbh, so if he ends up their big FA acquisition, I can live with it. They are scarier with Durant imo. They need offensive wing scoring, Brunson has the Booker role covered.
Is there really any difference between wing scoring and Booker? He's not small at 6'6" and while listed as shooting guard he does similar stuff on the offensive end to Tatum and Brown or any other good offensive "wing".
 

lovegtm

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Don’t think he’s a good fit for them tbh, so if he ends up their big FA acquisition, I can live with it. They are scarier with Durant imo. They need offensive wing scoring, Brunson has the Booker role covered.
Booker is a better defender than people think, and he's big. He'd fit great next to Brunson imo.
 

RorschachsMask

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Booker would kill it in NY, IMO. I’m not as high on him as many, but they so badly need a wing who can do what he is able to.

Wosny’s annoying ass said he heard Booker wants NY too.
 

lovegtm

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The Knicks are presumably pretty focused on their postseason run, so this feels a lot like Booker is telling people to tell people that he wants New York in the wake of the Suns' chaos.
 

lovegtm

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Also, everyone is talking about the Knicks, but what if the Nets trade the Suns their picks/swaps back for Booker? Who says no?

Suns can then auction off Durant for more draft equity, rehabilitate Beal with big numbers on a bad team, and go from there.
 

benhogan

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Also, everyone is talking about the Knicks, but what if the Nets trade the Suns their picks/swaps back for Booker? Who says no?

Suns can then auction off Durant for more draft equity, rehabilitate Beal with big numbers on a bad team, and go from there.
Yep, that's a good start

they should sell everything not nailed down & offer big money to Sam Presti (hire Sam first then SELL)
 

lovegtm

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Yep, that's a good start

they should sell everything not nailed down & offer big money to Sam Presti (hire Sam first then SELL)
I'm more curious about the Nets' angle: doesn't going hard after Booker while offering the Suns their draft back make tons of sense for both parties? They'd then have Bridges, Johnson, Claxton...there's stuff to work with, along with a very appealing market.