It's like the antithesis of the Bucks conundrum in replacing Kevin Porter Jr and Eric Gordon with VanVleet and Dillon Brooks. Added bonus points for Ime>Silas.
Listening to the Warriors broadcast makes it sound like the NBA is out to get them, which is odd. Draymond gets more leeway than any other player with the Refs, last night he didn't. Spider probably deserved a Flagrant1 for running back at Dray, what did they call there?Obviously I'm not gonna persuade anyone here that Draymond isn't the worst person on earth and deserving of every bad call he gets, but if it were anyone but Draymond (or say, a Celtic) I think most here would agree that it was a bad call. Shoving a guy hard on a loose ball is 99 times out of 100 just called a "foul," or if it's excessive, a flagrant. They cherrypicked "technical" knowing it was the one call that would get Dray run.
But the Draymond half of the call wasn't even the most egregious part of it. After the shove, Donovan Mitchell retaliated by running right at Dray and rage-hacking him hard on a 100% non-basketball play. In no scenario should that be a common foul — it's either a take foul, a technical, or a flagrant. Pretty sure I've never seen obvious retaliation rewarded by the refs in that way. In a strategic sense, you can call it "smart" (and of course "bad for Draymond" always equals "good" or "smart") but it was also the wrong call by the refs. I mean, for anyone but Draymond.
Here’s the whole sequence, starting with Dray picking Mitchell clean and Mitchell fouling him:I watched the replay, and I have no idea what you are talking about. the Draymond shove was absolutely a technical.
Just a common foul, which I do think is bad. He deserved something (flagrant or tech) for basically running into Green, regardless of it it was earned or not. And Draymond 100% deserved his ejection.Listening to the Warriors broadcast makes it sound like the NBA is out to get them, which is odd. Draymond gets more leeway than any other player with the Refs, last night he didn't. Spider probably deserved a Flagrant1 for running back at Dray, what did they call there?
Just a common foul — with Cleveland’s choice of FT shooter, cos Dray had been ejected.Spider probably deserved a Flagrant1 for running back at Dray, what did they call there?
Yeah, I get that. My suspicion is they cherry-picked “T” cos that was the one call that would get him ejected. Though I’m admittedly hazy on the the line between a flagrant and a T.You know this but he didn't get ejected for the cheap shot. It resulted in an ejection because he already had a T. And if you don't want fights you HAVE to penalize Green for the shove
OK agree that is a bad callJust a common foul — with Cleveland’s choice of FT shooter, cos Dray had been ejected.
yes, that's a technical for anyone. I am surprised that's controversialHere’s the whole sequence, starting with Dray picking Mitchell clean and Mitchell fouling him:
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ABNstWrRa6c&pp=ygUfZHJheW1vbmQgZ3JlZW4gZG9ub3ZhbiBtaXRjaGVsbA%3D%3D
On the ensuing shove: again, imagine #23 is anyone but Draymond. You think a hard shoulder-shove like that like to divert Mitchell from getting straight to the rim is ejection-worthy? It’s not a clean play, obviously — that’s why it’s typically called a foul (or at worst a flagrant 1) in a non-Dray scenario.
And as far as Spida: again, non-Dray scenario: is that kind of retaliation usually called a common foul?
I guess I’m also unclear on how far back the refs allowed to go on replay to determine original sin. I not sure I’d ever seen them go back to the previous possession. It was definitely … unusual, in any case.
He just got deported because you put that thought into the universeThat's absolutely the kind of foul they call a technical for anyone in threported. You can't shove a guy running full speed like that. Daniel Theis does that and he probably gets deported.
So, looking at the Mitchell play here:1. The severity of the contact
2. Whether or not the player was making a legitimate basketball play (e.g., whether a player is making a legitimate effort to block a shot; note, however, that a foul committed during a block attempt can still be considered flagrant if other criteria are present, such as recklessness and hard contact to the head)
3. Whether, on a foul committed with a player’s arm or hand, the fouling player wound up and/or followed through after making contact
4. The potential for injury resulting from contact (e.g., a blow to the head and a foul committed while a player is in a vulnerable position)
5. The severity of any injury suffered by the offended player
6. The outcome of the contact (e.g., whether it led to an altercation).
Is this like domestic violence cases, where charges aren't brought because the spouse/significant other is too scared to bring them? That's a crime, the man was defenseless. Shame on the Commonwealth of California and the Warriors organization, especially "I'm a Good Guy" Kerr.I mean, christ, we're talking about a guy who did this to a coworker, not in the middle of a game but in cold blood:
Any of us does that, we are tried, convicted, and imprisoned for felony assault and battery. You're watching a crime, right there, the kind that literally sends people to prison on the regular. But yeah, he's just a good guy who's misunderstood and given a hard time because he "has a reputation", sure.
FOH with that bullshit. If he didn't have basketball to cover for his violent contempt for the safety of others, he would be in prison. There are many like him in prison right now, who just didn't happen to be 6'6" and athletic. THAT's who you're going out of your way to defend, in this thread and others, over and over again over the years, as the examples pile up. It frankly says some not great things about you, at this point, and I hope you reflect on that.
Draymond at least in his prime is a spectacular player. And a super unique one who does things defensively, screening, passing that are rarely fully appreciated.. There’s also a lot of reason to observe that current Dray—and the guy the last two or so years—is a jackass who is surfing on his rep and abusing the nba rules via that rep.Is this like domestic violence cases, where charges aren't brought because the spouse/significant other is too scared to bring them? That's a crime, the man was defenseless. Shame on the Commonwealth of California and the Warriors organization, especially "I'm a Good Guy" Kerr.
That's the first time I've seen this and it is much, much worse than I thought it would be.
Can’t say I’ve ever seen a play like that. Felt more like a 2B shoveling it to the SS after a diving play.
Kerr was major pissed.…that someone leaked the video.Is this like domestic violence cases, where charges aren't brought because the spouse/significant other is too scared to bring them? That's a crime, the man was defenseless. Shame on the Commonwealth of California and the Warriors organization, especially "I'm a Good Guy" Kerr.
That's the first time I've seen this and it is much, much worse than I thought it would be.
Both are over 30 with 4 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, but they're only up by 5. Fun game.View: https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1723856987853656272
Looking forward to Wednesday nite, though why the C's are playing two in a row in Philly is beyond me.
He was already making a leap last year but couldn't get enough touches with the Sixers pace so slow with Harden running the offense. The kid has scoring champ potential under the right circumstances.Tyrese really going off tonight. Whatever you want to say about Philly, they nailed that pick at 21. I think it's Philly, not Milwaukee, that the Celtics will have to worry about this year.
Yeah, classic "addition by subtraction," at least for his development, when they got rid of Harden. The kid is so quick too, it's like he moves at 1.5 times the speed of the rest of the players on the court. If he can shoot 39%, 40% from three, coupled with that speed, he's going to be really hard to stop.He was already making a leap last year but couldn't get enough touches with the Sixers pace so slow with Harden running the offense.
Both of them: Haliburton 25 points on 14 fga, 17 assists, zero turnovers.Tyrese really going off tonight.
Obviously I’m not defending the despicable punch in any way, nor did I at the time. Come on.I mean, christ, we're talking about a guy who did this to a coworker, not in the middle of a game but in cold blood:
Any of us does that, we are tried, convicted, and imprisoned for felony assault and battery. You're watching a crime, right there, the kind that literally sends people to prison on the regular. But yeah, he's just a good guy who's misunderstood and given a hard time because he "has a reputation", sure.
FOH with that bullshit. If he didn't have basketball to cover for his violent contempt for the safety of others, he would be in prison. There are many like him in prison right now, who just didn't happen to be 6'6" and athletic. THAT's who you're going out of your way to defend, in this thread and others, over and over again over the years, as the examples pile up. It frankly says some not great things about you, at this point, and I hope you reflect on that.
Speaking of things on which one is 100% wrong on, I really thought it was a joke the Rockets overpaid for good (Van Fleet) and not so good (Brooks) players just to change their culture. Not sure if Brooks can keep up his shooting, but at least so far they look pretty darn good, and obviously that young talent is exciting.Ime is having a nice start to the season with the Rockets. They've had a favorable schedule but he's turned them into a real basketball team. Also saved the franchise from landing Harden again
I'll give Durant some credit for playing every game so far, at least until he inevitably stubs his toe in the parking lot or something.Late night West Coast NBA! It's FAN-tastic....except when LeBron, AD, Brogdon, Simons, and Scoot are all out.
I got them 65:1 to win it all like 3-4 days ago. Now 45:1. With a leveled up Ant Man, the sky is the limit.Minnesota is no joke.
Really nice play. Winning at the Chase Center isn’t easy. They are good.I got them 65:1 to win it all like 3-4 days ago. Now 45:1. With a leveled up Ant Man, the sky is the limit.
I watched the game today and man was it boring. The positive spin is offensively they’re deferring too much and with all that talent they’ll get it together in a week or two. Lue is going small ball and they have a sky high ceiling. On the negative, Memphis is a bad offensive team and Bane was missing shots, but nonetheless the defense Clips defense was nil. Made Biyombo look like he was a stud and zero rim protection against pretty much anyone going to the hoop. I don’t see how that gets fixed.The Clippers fascinate me, four (old) future Hall of Famers and arguably the least entertaining team in the league to watch.
View: https://twitter.com/haralabob/status/1723837879195967606?s=20
These "overpays" often look good, because the contract finishes before you have to pay your young guys, and the young guys develop a lot better with culture and talent around them.Speaking of things on which one is 100% wrong on, I really thought it was a joke the Rockets overpaid for good (Van Fleet) and not so good (Brooks) players just to change their culture. Not sure if Brooks can keep up his shooting, but at least so far they look pretty darn good, and obviously that young talent is exciting.
Celtics didn't "handle" Maxey last week, when the Sixers won in Philly, though Boston didn't have Derrick White in that game. Rematch is Wednesday nite, again in Boston.I admit I really didn't see Maxey coming. I put him in the boat as Herro and Poole - undersized shooting guard who can score with reasonable efficiency, but can't play defense (thus get exposed in the playoffs). Maybe I've been blinded by the fact that I mostly watch him against the Celtics who've always handled him (he averages 9.7 ppg on a .425 TS% against Boston, his worst marks against any team), but unless this is just a hot streak, he's gonna be an all-star and likely all-NBA guy this year.
Not only did Ant hit every big shot down the stretch — he also dropped one of the dunks of the season to date on poor Dario Saric…View: https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1723924586612277336
Minnesota has now beaten Nuggets, Celtics and Warriors.
Keep in mind that this was a 12:30pm Sunday afternoon game in LA. There may not have been a single player on the floor who wanted to be playing basketball on a Sunday noon game after a night in LA.I watched the game today and man was it boring. The positive spin is offensively they’re deferring too much and with all that talent they’ll get it together in a week or two. Lue is going small ball and they have a sky high ceiling. On the negative, Memphis is a bad offensive team and Bane was missing shots, but nonetheless the defense Clips defense was nil. Made Biyombo look like he was a stud and zero rim protection against pretty much anyone going to the hoop. I don’t see how that gets fixed.
Brooks has cut his FGA in half from his Memphis days over the first 9 game and is looking like prime-Draymond out there. This version of him is a really really good player if he can reign in the desire to be a 20ppg scorer. The Rockets turned Stephen Silas, Kevin Porter Jr and Eric Gordon into Udoka, Brooks and VanVleet....that's an instant culture overhaul. They are a good team and these changes will probably bring out the best in Sengun too.Speaking of things on which one is 100% wrong on, I really thought it was a joke the Rockets overpaid for good (Van Fleet) and not so good (Brooks) players just to change their culture. Not sure if Brooks can keep up his shooting, but at least so far they look pretty darn good, and obviously that young talent is exciting.
I would not have thought it odd at all if they called the shove a flagrant 1. But a T is a lesser penalty, to the team anyway. I share your confusion as to the dividing line between what can be a T vs what can only be a flagrant or common foul (I realize Ts are almost always dead-ball or off-ball things - but I know that's not always true), but if you think it might've been an F-1 then you agree the team got off lightly.(2) in my viewing experience the initial shove would more typically be deemed a loose ball foul or Flagrant 1 than a T (which I think at least some here agree with).
We don't have to wonder, many Boston fans who watch hockey have been in the position of having to enjoy watching Brad Marchand play for their team the last 12 or so years. Who was just made team captain. He has settled down a bit in his old age, but isn't that far removed from various fines and suspensions. But I've been listening to (more-diehard-than-I) Bruins fans talk about him for just as long, and it tends to fall roughly along these lines:I mean, yes, “Laundry Uber Alles” is how it works to some degree, for all of us. But anyone is free to imagine that they’d think exactly the same of Dray were he a lifelong Celtic.
Grudgingly, a lot of the time — I suspect the same way you would if he were wearing the green? I mean, if we can root for G38…
That said, this season more often than not I’m kind of done with the whole experience, and looking forward to a post-Dray existence. Looney being arguably the better player the last couple seasons (on top of a miles better leader, person, etc.) makes it easier to envision.
For now, though … it’s all about the laundry.
As an aside to this, I think the Tatum histrionics this season have been drastically reduced. He's clearly working on it. The biggest change in him I've seen this season is just a calmness and authority that his constant whining was stripping from him. Now he just looks like he's the best dude on the court at all times and that he knows it and doesn't need to tell anyone about it. Huge difference, in my opinion.I think the dirty plays would be like 40% easier to put up with if the whining weren't present. We call out no less than Jayson Tatum on his whining around here on the regular, and he's usually being less attention-grabbing with it than Draymond is.