Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Mystic Merlin

    Mystic Merlin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    29,438
    I don’t think I’d consider myself ‘excited’ about Golden Tate, but I think he’s among the more realistic options if you want instant contributors.
     
  2. dynomite

    dynomite Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,601
    I would find it sort of surprising if Flores lets that happen. On a rebuilding team wouldn’t you want an incredibly hard-working veteran and 2-time SB Champ to mentor younger players?

    I’ve been wondering about this for years.

    I loved that Brady got the first 4 games off in 2016. I loved that Edelman got the first 4 games off this year. We all know the Pats consider September to be an extended preseason, so why have their aging stars play all of it? In the NBA, veteran stars regularly get rested throughout the season to keep them fresh and reduce the chance of injury. It didn’t seem to impact Edelman or Brady too much in those suspension-shorted seasons, especially come the playoffs.

    I know it’s the Patriot Way to play every snap of every game at 100 mph, so I imagine nothing will change. But I would love it if the Pats became the first team to, say, rotate players and limit snaps in September.
     
  3. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,339
    I'm usually terrible at this game, but a couple tight ends that come to mind—both with some issues—are Eifert as a flyer and Cameron Brate as a cap/Arians offense casualty. Brate just signed a new deal last year but if this is correct, he can be cut pre-June 1 to save $7 mil with no dead money. Despite being terrible they are bottom-5 in cap space right now and Arians' history with the TE position does not really suggest that they'll be willing to pony up that $ for the #2 guy with a stud like Howard in the fold. Full disclosure: Brate is recovering from surgery on a torn labrum in his hip. Good red zone target if healthy, and was quite good with 1200+ yards and 14 TD over the 2016 and 2017 seasons. Yardage fell off this year (he played hurt all year), but he still managed 6 scores.

    Edit: This thread is always so much better after winning the SB. Every addition just feels like a potential "rich get richer" moment (I know we will lose guys too but I'm talking about the strictly emotional/gut feeling) instead of a "can this guy really get us over the top?" moment.
     
  4. dynomite

    dynomite Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,601
    Was just looking at Eifert. He might be a popular target for a lot of teams, but seems like a perfect target for the Pats, especially on a 1-year Marty Bennett type deal.

    Not a lot of wear on the tires because of injury (only played 15 games total in the past 3 years). Obviously that cuts both ways, because he’s a huge injury risk who might never be the same player again. Still, the leg injury seemed pretty freakish last year, and he’s still only 28, 6’6”, and could be an enormous value signing if he wants to chase a ring.
     
  5. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    19,385
    We traded for Moss and Welker, we can certainly trade a pick again for a WR who's ready to produce.
     
  6. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,050
    I gotcha. I just don't see it, especially not at whatever cost he would be. He's a man without a position, who basically doesn't bring much more to the table than Dorsett. In fact, he's a lot slower than Dorsett (Dorsett ran a 4.33 at the combine and 4.28 at his pro day, while Tate ran a 4.42) and just as small, and has 5 more years on the tires. In his early years in Seattle, they tried to treat him like a #1 or #2 receiver and he just wasn't that good. It wasn't until he hit the slot with Megatron and then later, Marvin Jones/Anquan Boldin that he really shined. When Philly tried to take him out of the slot this year, he was invisible.

    Maybe he's an instant contributor to the tune of whatever Dorsett or Hogan can give us, but I'm tired of the Dorsett's and Hogan's on the outside here. If the Pats are going to spend the kind of money it would take to sign Tate as a free agent, I'd rather see them trade a high draft pick and pick up a contract of a guy who's actually meant to play on the outside.

    If Dallas can pick up Amari Cooper for a late 1st round pick, I think the Pats can do really well with one of their 6 picks in the 1st 3 rounds.
     
  7. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,488
    Tyrell Williams is worth a look but some team might open the bank for him based on his 2016 season.

    Adam Humphries is a FA Slot guy that could potentially take over for Edelman in a year or two. They could probably work together for a year.
     
  8. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    14,296
    Jesse James would be an intriguing free agent pickup from Pittsburgh.
     
  9. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    I know he didn't play much after they acquired him, but Melifonwu has ideal size and speed for a safety, and he's young. So if they're high on him, maybe he ends up being one of the next generation of safeties for this team.
     
  10. dynomite

    dynomite Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,601
    Definitely some possibilities out there, although hopefully for below a 3rd rounder.

    Laquon Treadwell on the Vikings is someone they might kick the tires on — 2016 1st rounder, big (6’2”), but hasn’t done much. Kind of a Dorsett in Indy situation.

    Devante Parker on the Dolphins was one of the most rumored trade deadline candidates — USA Today said they were asking for a 3rd rounder, but that price may have fallen. Not exactly sure what the money consequences are, although I believe the Fins picked up his 5th year option for $9.3M.

    Sure there are others.
     
  11. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,972
    I like Kenny Stills a lot as a trade target. He had a somewhat rocky year in Miami and the Fins are reported to be tanking next year anyway so turning him into draft capital this offseason makes a ton of sense for them. If he gets traded, its basically a two year contract to the acquiring team (for his age 27 and 28 seasons) with fairly reasonable cap numbers of 8M and 7M. He's sort of a better Dorsett. He's not a particularly physical outside receiver who will make a lot of contested catches but he's definitely a deep threat that can punish a team that leaves him one on one. Unlike Dorsett, he also has played a fair amount out of the slot and in stacked formations and had some success as a receiver on the inside. And I think the price would be pretty reasonable. I would guess that he would cost no more than a 3rd rounder at most, maybe even a deal where you could give a 3rd and get a 5th back or something similar.
     
  12. Dernells Casket n Flagon

    Dernells Casket n Flagon Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,184
    Is 6'2 big for an NFL WR?
     
  13. dynomite

    dynomite Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,601
    On our roster they're like Andre the Giant.

    ... Yeah, I'd say so. This paper has a lot of fancy math and says NFL average for a WR is 6' even. Cord Patterson is 6'2" and is always described as "big," although I guess that's also because he's, well, big.
     
  14. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    How about Larry Fitzgerald?

    (ducking)

    On a more serious note, how about AJ Green? Turns 31 in July and in last year of his deal. Does Cincy want to commit to a new deal given the state of their team?

    This is my “swing for the fences” guy.
     
  15. Dernells Casket n Flagon

    Dernells Casket n Flagon Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,184
    Holy shit that paper!

    How is that a 400 level college presentation and not a project for a 7th grader?
     
  16. thehitcat

    thehitcat Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,485
    Well he's certainly slow so... I really liked Treadwell coming out of Ol' Miss. Thought he had the hands to be a great pro but he's had a serious case of the dropsies in Minnesota. I see him more as a reclamation project that might come good but one who has the same issue many of our guys seem to have on the outside with getting separation due to that lack of speed. If the Pats believe his hands are suspect or his head is I think he's a stay away sadly.
     
  17. dynomite

    dynomite Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,601
    Thank you for noticing. It really does seem like the cover page should read "Mrs. Crabapple's Class."

    Take a look at the last page. Like, is this serious?

    "If a kid cannot become 6’2” then they can look at the average height and weight of other positions."

    "Statistics is like magic"
     
  18. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,070
    His limited athleticism and inability to separate would be bad enough but he’s not a prolific route runner either. I don’t think he is a CP84 reclamation project where you change how he is used because of that lack of athleticism. Not sure what the allure is with him other than the Vikings drafting him in round 1.
     
  19. Beomoose

    Beomoose Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    16,367
    I appreciate your thoughts here, but unless we get him for a song I'd rather get one of the "big but maybe not fast enough" guys in the draft and hope he can hold onto the ball.
     
  20. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,684
    I'd rather see what the market for Devin Funchess looks like. He is a bigger body (6'5"230lbs) and had a very good 2017 with 800 yds and 7 TDs before being phased out of the offense this year as CAR drafted DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel and funneled the offense through CMac.

    If nothing else he could be a good red zone option but perhaps he just needs a change of scenery. Certainly not a burner but he should be more effective than Hogan.
     
  21. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,050
    Now, that's what I'm talking about. If AJ Green's toe is healed, and the Pats can work him out/pass a physical and he's got stuff left in the tank, I'd love to make a move for him, and I think a 2nd rounder gets it done. The Bengals should be in tank mode this season. The Andy Dalton years are coming to an end, and they just hired a new young offensive minded coach (the QB coach of the Rams). If they even hint that Green is available, that's a guy I'm seriously kicking the tires on. The Bengals also have a very good young WR in Tyler Boyd who looks ready to take the leap to stardom.

    The other guy mentioned in this thread that I like is DeVante Parker, but honestly, I can't see Brian Flores looking to make the Patriots stronger. As much as he might "owe" Belichick, I think he'd face a lot of backlash from the fan base no matter what kind of return he might get back, and as was said, they just picked up his fifth year option.

    If I was looking to take a flier on a young receiver that hasn't lived up to the billing, I'd be looking for a guy out of Treadwell's class, but not him. I'd be talking to the Redskins about Josh Doctson. He's obviously been a bust to this point, but I'd argue he hasn't exactly had the world's greatest quarterback situation either. He's not fast (ran a 4.5 out of college), but he's 6'4' and can jump out of the gym (41 inch vertical) and probably his best asset is his ability to fight for and come down with the circus catch. I think he can become what Mike Williams is becoming on the outside for the Chargers.
     
  22. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    How about Robert Woods? Kupp should be back by early in the season at the latest. Do the Rams really need Cooks, Kupp, Reynolds, and Woods? Can they afford it?
     
  23. leftfieldlegacy

    leftfieldlegacy Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    658
    I'd love to see Flowers stay with the Pats but I'm not optimistic about it. The Jets have a ton of cap space, they need a strong pass rusher and they would love to get him off the Pat's roster. Gregg Williams has to be salivating at the prospect of getting Flowers to NJ. He is in for a big payday.
     
  24. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,050
    I'd rather go after the 6'3 Josh Reynolds myself, but whereas he's cost controlled for another 2-3 years, I imagine if the Rams were going to move one of them, it would be Woods. I like Woods a lot. They signed him to a 5yr/39mm deal in 2017, so he's not breaking the bank if he is a true #1 or #2 for a team. Not a bad thought. I honestly have no idea what the Rams cap situation is going forward. My impression is they need to dump a bunch of folks. Still can't believe they gave Cooks 5yrs/80mm. They just gave Gurley a 4/60mm extension. They gave Donald 6/134mm. Talib is going into year 5 of a 6/57mm deal. Suh was only on a 1/14mm deal, so he's gone.

    But geez, I don't even know how they paid everyone this year, and that's with Goff on a rookie deal that pays him only 4/28mm.
     
  25. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    Maybe it’s because he’s a former Bills but Woods just feels like a perfect Patriot. Very sound fundamentals and good hands. But I’m not giving up on my AJ dream just yet.
     
  26. JohnnyK

    JohnnyK Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,690
  27. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,684
    Rams have 34M in cap space or 2X what NE has (17M). You can quit the dreams of picking up an LAR receiver unless you also want NE to overpay for said asset.
     
  28. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    Not necessarily. They aren’t bidding on a FA. Woods is already on a reasonable deal. If Rams want to re-allocate his cap space and pick up an asset, a deal is possible.

    Pats cap space is very fluid based on retirements, re-structures, cuts, etc. We have no idea if guys like Brown or Flowers are coming back and what the team’s plan for replacing them would be. We already know they have a potential cheap replacement for Brown in Wynn.
     
  29. Soxy Brown

    Soxy Brown Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,194
    IIRC, the Pats showed interest in Woods before he signed with the Rams. I think he'd be a great fit for the Pats, seems like their kind of player. Flys under the radar a bit but he's a better overall receiver than Cooks. Tougher, better hands, more versatile.
     
  30. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,488
    I think the point is the Rams have no reason to trade Woods. They aren't tight on cape space. One of their other receivers is recovering from a major injury.
    Why would they be looking to move on?
     
  31. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    It’s impossible to predict NFL roster construction in early February. Plenty of teams trade guys that they have “no reason to trade”. They could use Woods to fortify another area on their team that needs help, like LB.

    He’s a good player on a good deal so it’s unlikely but far from impossible.
     
  32. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,866
    I said it in another thread, pre-Super Bowl, but this thread is much more appropriate for the discussion: might the Pats consider cutting Cannon, putting Wynn at RT, and re-signing Brown for LT? I thought Cannon may have been the worst OL this year, and per Miguel, cutting him would save a little over $4.1M if they cut him ("If the Patriots were to release or trade Cannon before June 2nd, their dead money would be $2.8 million while their net cap savings would be $4,161,250."). Meanwhile he is projecting franchise tag for an OT at $14M, and he thinks Brown will sign for $50M for 5 year (IIRC -- can't find the exact source).

    To me the biggest needs for this off-season will be on the DLine. It's quite possible that Flowers, M Brown, and Shelton will all be gone. THat's 3 of the top 6.
     
  33. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,972
    I think they drafted Wynn with the hope that he would be the LT of the future. His tape at LT was great at Georgia, Scar talked him up as a LT after the draft and how he wasn't worried about his size, and he's not really that undersized at 6'3 313 with 33 3/8 inch arms anyway. That he can play inside gives them flexibility but my guess is that they want to give him a shot to take that job.

    You could still do that and just slide Brown to RT, of course, if Cannon is let go. I guess it comes down to Brown's market versus what they think of Cannon's future past 30. Cannon has a pretty favorable veteran contract while there seems like a good chance that Brown is going to get at least that 5/50 number if not higher given his relatively young age, the further rise of the cap, and the dollars that a guy like Solder got last year (4/62). Solder had more of a track record but was also three years older.

    Unless Brown's market just doesn't develop, I think the default will be to slide Wynn into the LT slot, go with Cannon at RT, and either resign Waddle or find somebody similar for the swing tackle.
     
    #83 Morgan's Magic Snowplow, Feb 6, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  34. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,488
    Not saying it's impossible. Just that at this point there's no evidence they're looking to move him.
    If we want to discuss every possible player than fine.
     
    #84 BigJimEd, Feb 6, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  35. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    Um...ok. We are talking about potential options at WR in this thread. Nobody here has any insight on any teams' thought process. Everything is speculation at this point. Did you see the Cooks trade coming?

    If offseason speculation isn't your thing, this might not be the thread for you.
     
  36. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    The Pats may lose Flowers and Brown and maybe even Gronk. But they've got a lot of resources to fill in.

    Coming back from injury from last year's draft class (or just injured players):
    OL Wynn
    LB Bentley
    WR Berrios
    RB Hill
    TE Hollister
    TE Izzo
    CB Rowe
    LB Sam

    Plus 12 draft picks (6 in the first three rounds):
    1st: their own
    2nd: Bears (#56), their own
    3rd: Lions (#72), Comp, Comp
    4th: their own
    5th: Comp
    6th: none
    7th: Browns, Eagles, their own, Comp

    That's a lot of ammo in terms of returning players (Wynn and Bentley were staring caliber players as rookies) and draft picks. They're well-situated to deal with their needs, even if they lose some key pieces.

    Of Brown or Flowers....personally I'd rather keep Flowers, as the Pats have Wynn who can step right in and replace Brown. They really don't have anyone like that to replace Flowers.
     
  37. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,372
    This is likely true. It is worth mentioning though that they had moved Wynn to Right Tackle, and that's where he was playing before he got hurt. So he may have originally been brought in as a LT, but the team either decided they like Brown more, or thought Wynn was better suited to the right side. I personally hope they resign Brown. He was an absolute monster and rarely made mistakes from what I can remember.

    https://247sports.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/Article/Isaiah-Wynn-moves-to-right-tackle-120652114/
     
  38. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,488
    Um...ok.
    The original poster wasn't sure about Rams cap space and thought they might need to dump contracts. Thus maybe they'd be open to trading Woods.
    It was correctly pointed out that they have plenty of cap space this off season.

    That is all.
     
  39. CCR

    CCR lurker

    Messages:
    31
    Also, CB Dawson.
     
  40. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,313
    Yep, forgot about him.
     
  41. nolasoxfan

    nolasoxfan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,940
    Count me among those that would love to see Brown stay in a Pats uniform. I don’t know how he graded out this year, but he sure passed the eye test during the playoffs & SB. The guy is a beast.
     
  42. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    24,726
    C.J. Anderson as the new Blount?
     
  43. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,610
    Last year, we lost Solder, Butler, and Lewis (and Amendola) in free agency. This year, our O-Line was better, our secondary was better and our RB situation was better. In addition, we picked up some comp picks for losing those free agents. I want to retain Flowers. I want to retain Trent Brown. I wouldn't mind if we retained one of Shelton or M Brown at a good price. That said, if they all sign elsewhere, I expect the team to adjust while collecting more comp picks.

    Wide Receiver was not better than the previous year, but we gained Wynn, Crossen, Izzo and a 2019 7th when we traded Cooks.
     
  44. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    Yes, but cap space may not be the reason for trading Woods and using that as a reason to stifle any discussion just isn't valid ("You can quit the dreams of picking up an LAR receiver unless you also want NE to overpay for said asset"), imo. Teams trade from a position of strength to bolster weaker positions all the time, which can be complete unrelated to cap space needs.

    Additionally, the Rams' 2019 draft capital is the following:

    31 (1st round), 127 (4th round), 159 (5th round), and 191 (6th round). They traded their 2nd round for Peters and 3rd round for Fowler. It looks like they should get a couple 3rd round compensatory picks due to Trumaine Johnson and Watkins but it's certainly possible they want more draft capital. Trading Woods would give them that, especially if they're comfortable with Kupp's recovery progress.
     
  45. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,698
    Do they?

    I can't see it. Cap isn't an issue, Woods greatly outperformed his contract (which runs through 2021) in 2018, he's still pretty young (26), and the Rams clearly value the WR position (trading for Watkins, signing Woods, drafting Kupp, trading for and extending Cooks). Plus he probably fetches a first and I can't see Belichick buying high like that.
     
  46. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,972
    Yeah, this makes zero sense from a Rams perspective. To your excellent points I'd also add that they don't know exactly how Kupp will recover and Woods is clearly their best non-Kupp possession receiver. Plus their team is really built to win next year and everything gets harder after that as Goff needs to get paid, Peters needs to get paid, Donald may start declining, etc.
     
  47. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,034
    It's definitely not likely but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility either given the Rams' current draft capital and potential positional strength. It all depends on how they view Reynolds' development and Kupp's ACL recovery. A Cooks/Kupp/Reynolds trio is perfectly fine for a team that has Todd Gurley at RB and a decent TE in Everett. Of course, given how Goff performed in the SB, I could see McVay not wanting to take any of his weapons away.

    I think it'll be interesting to see if Woods makes any waves on his contract. As you mentioned, he is now very underpaid based on his production and he's about to enter his prime earnings years.
     
  48. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,698
    If you read that article, they moved Wynn during a time when Cannon was dealing with an injury. Brown played a lot of RT in SF, so they weren't gaining much intel by shifting him back over there in preseason. It was an opportunity for Wynn to get some looks on the right side (also helpful if he needed to play RG). It's entirely possible that after a few days or weeks, they would have decided Wynn at LT was better, but Wynn tore his Achilles the same week that article was written.
     
  49. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,372
    I just meant, I wouldn't rule out Brown returning because of Wynn. That may be the case, but from the very limited info we have (because of the injury) they were at least willing to move Wynn FOR Brown.
     
  50. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    19,385
    Jeremy Hill is the new Blount, no?
     

Share This Page