Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by RedOctober3829, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    16,134
    Counting on him to play any kind of significant role seems like a mistake. His production has been in decline for years and he was basically a bust for the Texans. Then add in an achilles injury, a tough one to come back from when you're in your 30s. And the injury occurred late in the year, so he'll definitely miss OTAs and possibly much of training camp.
     
  2. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,939
    I don't necessarily want either coming off an achilles injury but if I had to choose I would much prefer Emmanuel Sanders in this offense.
     
  3. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,679
    Yup. I'd kick the tires on him. He would have eviscerated people in the Pats offense but we'll have to see what he has left. Turns 32 in March.
     
  4. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,076
    If by "nobody" you mean Ben Volin, I agree with you:

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...s-offseason/el8ueAjiLiwzaxkDsss8qO/story.html
     
  5. SoxinSeattle

    SoxinSeattle Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,464
  6. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,939
  7. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,139
    He’s going to get drafted because his other tape is elite. He was probably going to be a day 2 pick because of the optics but maybe now he’s the first guy take in round 4. I know these guys aren’t angels but I hope we don’t draft him. I know he has an explanation and even married the person after but I’m usually a pass on assault/violence types of character issues.
     
  8. RGREELEY33

    RGREELEY33 Potty Mouth Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,645
    6 SBs later, and I am arguably more excited about the roster-build and draft of the Patriots in February, than I am about Spring Training, the Celtics and Bruins playoff push, and pretty much anything else in my life. I love this franchise.
     
  9. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,939
    Have a buddy at work who is a lifelong Jets fan and I have to stop myself from gushing too much at times. Especially when I start talking matter-of-factly about how much better everything in the off-season feels coming off a SB win vs. a SB loss or earlier playoff exit.
     
    #159 Jed Zeppelin, Feb 13, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  10. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    Yes yes yes
     
  11. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,485
    There's nothing better than a post SB win offseason where your team is loaded with picks and will have a great opportunity to be even better than they were the previous year. I'll enjoy this one all the way to September.
     
  12. EL Jeffe

    EL Jeffe Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    541
    You think so, SMU? All the draft evaporators I respect the most saw him as a top 10 selection even with the assault background. From what I understand, the Miss St coaching staff fully vouched for him and that he genuinely grew after the incident.

    The Patriots, with all those extra picks, seem like a very logical landing spot (I'm guessing late 2, early 3?). He checks so many boxes for them - SEC, scheme diverse, strong hands/anchor, with excellent rush skills. He's the sort of talent that's usually long gone by the time the Patriots pick, so I imagine BB will be very intrigued - even with a red shirt year. Most GMs don't have that kind of job security to take a red shirt player on Day 2.
     
  13. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,684
    matter-of-factory is a great term to describe the Patriots off-season.
     
  14. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,773
    Pats poach another coach

    http://www.vindy.com/news/2019/feb/12/football-ysu-o-line-coach-going-to-pros/
     
  15. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,684
    #165 pappymojo, Feb 13, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  16. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

    Messages:
    18,678
    It's really a 365 days thing.

    The last time I felt this way was for the Bruins in the 80's (the Pederson/Middleton then Remelin/Neely years) and of course the 2004 through 2007 Sox run.

    Grateful everyday for this franchise, starting with the Krafts.
     
  17. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,939
    Had a class in high school in 2004 where we used computers, business class I think. I still remember me and the guy next to me spending basically all of our days devouring every new mock draft in the wake of SB38 trying to figure out who they'd get with the Kyle Boller pick and being shocked that Vince fell so far. Don't think he was even on our radar at the time.
     
  18. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    There have been two draft picks in Pats history that I was basically screaming at the TV when they were on the clock and they actually picked that guy: Terry Glenn and Vince Wilfork
     
  19. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,679
    Funny. I did the same with Wilfork. I also high fived my buddies when Chris Canty was picked in 1997. That was my Bill Simmons/James Young moment...
     
  20. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    Yeah I was also pretty fired up about Andy Katzenmoyer in 1999, but who wasn't?!
     
  21. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,440
    Very true, but they have a lot of holes. They basically have one WR on the roster and rumored possible retirements could cause big holes at S and TE. They could use some help on DL as well as some supper at LB.
     
  22. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,684
    Based on the discussion in the "Why Are The Patriots So Good" thread I had a thought. I think players playing under a rookie contract are underpaid. I think Belichick recognizes this and hoards draft picks not just as a way to acquire talent but as a way to manage the salary.

    I think comp picks are the most recent instance where Belichick is flexible in his approach roster construction. I wonder if we see fewer instances of the Patriots trading a player who is due to become a free agent within the next two years a year early. Instead I suspect we may see the Patriots actively acquiring those types of players specifically from teams that have undergone organizational changes (changes to the head coach and/or general manager). These would be players playing on the fourth year of their rookie contract. Two examples from last year:

    Last year they traded a third round pick to the 49ers for Trent Brown and a fifth round pick. 2018 was the fourth year of the contract he had signed with the 49ers. I believe he was signed by Trent Baalke. John Lynch became GM in 2017. If he signs elsewhere as a free agent, it is likely that the Patriots will be awarded a third round pick as a comp pick.

    Last year they traded a third round pick to the Browns for Danny Shelton and a fifth round pick. 2018 was the fourth year of the contract he signed with the Browns. I believe he was drafted under Ray Famer. Jon Dorsey became GM in 2017. I don't know how much he will get as a free agent or what sort of comp pick the Patriots would receive if he signs elsewhere.

    So, thinking about similar opportunities for this offseason. Players from the 2016 draft (going into the fourth year on their rookie contract) where the team has undergone recent changes to the General Manager position. Anyone jump out?
     
  23. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,833
    By my reckoning, you've got 12 teams that have made GM changes in that time span: JAX (Jalen Ramsey, Myles Jack, Yannick Ngakoue), SF (DeForest Buckner, Joshua Garnett), BUF (Shaq Lawson), IND (Ryan Kelly, Joe Haeg), OAK (Karl Joseph), CAR (Vernon Butler, James Bradberry), CLE (Emmanuel Ogbah, Joe Schobert, Shon Coleman, Derrick Kindred, Seth Devalve), HOU (Will Fuller, Nick Martin), NYG (Sterling Shepherd), GB (Kenny Clark, Blake Martinez, Dean Lowry), BAL (Ronnie Stanley, Tavon Young, Matt Judon), and MIA (Laremy Tunsil, Xavien Howard, Kenyan Drake). I haven't checked throroughly to see if some of these guys have been extended already.
     
  24. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    Out of those names ones that interest me are certainly Ramsey/Jack/Ngakoue but beyond those I'd say Will Fuller, Sterling Shepard, Xavien Howard, and Kenyan Drake.
     
  25. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,684
    Thank you. Do we know if any of these teams significantly changed their approach (for example, going from a 4-3 defense to a 3-4 defense as a result of a coaching change)?
     
  26. SeoulSoxFan

    SeoulSoxFan Dope Dope

    Messages:
    18,678
    So, if Trent Brown signs a huge contract elsewhere (as many believe he will) Patriots could be looking at a decent draft pick in the 3rd-4th round range, no?
     
  27. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    In 2020. Assuming the Pats don’t sign any big FAs of their own.
     
  28. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
  29. Red Averages

    Red Averages owes you $50 SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,632
    19mm per year is "very team friendly" now? Interesting.

    Hard pass. Vastly perfer what it would take to get a lesser WR, with less assets and less of a commitment to a guy who has played a total of 16 games the last two years and frequently shows himself as an individual over a teammate. Besides, NFL players (particularly OBJ) frequently comment on other players Instagram.
     
  30. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    24,802
    Lazar is suggesting the Pats converting much of OBJs deal into a signing bonus for cap purposes. What could possibly go wrong with giving him most of the money up front? Get real.
     
  31. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,833
    The Patriots literally don't have enough cap space right now ($15.8 MM) to absorb Beckham's hit ($17 MM). They have some ways to clear space, but they have other needs, too. So if the Pats wanted to make this happen (a dubious assumption), it would be necessary to convert some of Beckham's salary to bonus and spread out the hit.
     
  32. Jettisoned

    Jettisoned Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    942
    I think those come into effect next year. The Pats will get a few from losing Solder, Butler, Amendola, Lewis, etc..
     
  33. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,833
    OTC is projecting two thirds, a fifth, and a seventh. Interestingly the two Super Bowl teams are positioned for the best compensatory haul (relatedly: comp picks are dumb).
     
  34. Jettisoned

    Jettisoned Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    942
    To me, the biggest question mark is Josh Gordon. If he can play a bunch of games next year they probably don't need to spend a lot of resources acquiring receivers. They could probably just get away with trying to get an upgrade for Hogan, but even then if Berrios takes over the slot, they could move Edelman over to the Z role and keep things more or less the same. In this case, re-signing Brown is the biggest move they'd need to make.

    If Gordon can't go next year they will have to make some serious moves for Z and X receivers, because Hogan and Dorsett don't seem like they'll be able to get it done consistently. That would probably preclude them from re-signing Brown as well.
     
  35. axx

    axx lurker

    Messages:
    6,077
    Gordon I believe is a UFA. They could sign him of course if he manages to get reinstated.
     
  36. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,679
    He’s a RFA
     
  37. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,833
    Gordon was great but he's an addict. They just cannot count on him for a whole season, even if he's able to get in the field initially.
     
  38. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    Chris Simms said the Giants were shopping OBJ last offseason and the team most aggressive in trying to deal for him was the Patriots. Now, that may be before he got his extension and he was on his last year. But maybe the talks begin again?

     
  39. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,485
    You ever get the feeling sometimes that a certain player will inevitably end up on your team in the future, for some reason? That's me with OBJ.
     
  40. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    From a cap perspective, a post 6/1 trade nets the Giants $17 million in '19 cap space. $4 million in dead '19 space and $12 million in '20 dead space.
     
  41. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,485
    Just tell me this doesn't look 100% right to you:

    [​IMG]
     
  42. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    Sure does. I mean what part of Michel/White/Burkhead, Edelman/OBJ, Gronk doesn't make any Pats fan excited?
     
  43. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,005
    Anyone that would rather spend the money Odell would cost on Trey Flowers I suppose.

    I'm one of them for sure.
     
  44. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,485
    They could sign both players if they realy want to. Likely wouldn't even take that much cap engineering either.
     
  45. 5dice

    5dice Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    526
    It doesn't look 100% right to me. Picturing the moments during and after a unique Patriots' offensive gameplan that includes not throwing to him and he acts detrimental to the team for the world to see and for the hot take business to seize upon.

    And before anyone pulls the Moss and Dillon cards out and lazily throws them on the table as comps, they were both in late career stages at 30 years old where they just wanted to win and have a chance on a marquee playoff team. ODB just turned 26 and is at the top of his game and top 3 in the league. What about this player, salary and career stage says Patriots, beyond his talent?

    Throw in how tight the Patriots cap is with signings that still need to happen along with giving up valuable trade capital and this seems really far-fetched. My .$02.
     
    #195 5dice, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  46. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,005
    Yeah, it would. Quite a lot actually.
     
  47. Seels

    Seels Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,231
    I think the only Michael Felgerism I've ever agreed with is that the salary cap is (mostly) a myth.

    If the opportunity was out there for the Pats to actually get OBJ, and they placed value on getting him and signing Flowers, I'm sure they could do so quite easily. Cutting or restructuring Cannon Allen Claymore is about as easy as it gets.

    The only difficulty lies in whether or not Gronk / McCourty and their respective cap hits are coming back or can be restructured if they do.

    That said it remains unlikely given the holes the team has at various positions.
     
  48. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,580
    It might be a myth for a given year, or even a 2-3 year period of time, but eventually you have to pay the piper.
     
  49. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,577
    I wouldn't base anything on what Chris Simms says. The man is blinded by hate. Not sure what his angle is here.

    Beckham or any diva receiver can work here or anywhere under the right circumstances. In Bill we trust, yada yada.
     
  50. rodderick

    rodderick Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,485
    I will pull the Moss and Dillon cards because everything you said about those two players is a hindsight analysis. There absolutely were similar questions about their commitment, personality and locker room fit before they came to New England.
     

Share This Page